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Don't we need to know ...



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 26th 07, 05:00 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Puddin' Man
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Posts: 19
Default Don't we need to know ...


Correct po' me if I'm wrong:

Menu Foods took custom orders from major pet food brands. Each order
specified a formula (so much of -this- basic food product,
so much of -that- basic food product, etc). And maybe little/no
specification for origin or quality control of any of the
basic food products.

Don't we need to know, at bare minimum, what company was
responsible for mixing, packaging, etc the formulation that we
are feeding?

For instance, who mixed/packaged my 40 lb (DRY) Nutro Nat. Choice
Lamb and Rice?

Does there exist a list of brand-name pet foods (wet, dry, you name
it) -not- mixed etc by Menu Foods?

Cheers,
Puddin'

"Life is nothing but a competition to be the criminal rather
than the victim."
- Bertrand Russell

  #2  
Old March 26th 07, 07:08 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
buglady
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Posts: 863
Default Don't we need to know ...


"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
news
Does there exist a list of brand-name pet foods (wet, dry, you name
it) -not- mixed etc by Menu Foods?


Menufoods only makes canned (wet) food. As for your question, nope there's
nothing on the label that tells you who actually made the food. Interesting
in getting the label laws changed? What do you think ought to be on there?
People are talking about it.

www.petconnection.com
www.howl911.com

buglady
take out the dog before replying




  #3  
Old March 26th 07, 09:45 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Puddin' Man
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Posts: 19
Default Don't we need to know ...

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 18:08:48 GMT, "buglady" wrote:


"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
news
Does there exist a list of brand-name pet foods (wet, dry, you name
it) -not- mixed etc by Menu Foods?


Menufoods only makes canned (wet) food.


Thanks. I'd not heard that. Amazing how they (i.e. mass-media)
manage to neglect reporting certain potentially important facts.

As for your question, nope there's
nothing on the label that tells you who actually made the food. Interesting
in getting the label laws changed?


Yes. In the US, it would be Dept. of Agriculture? FDA?

What do you think ought to be on there?


At bare minimum, the name of the contractor responsible
for acquiring, mixing, packaging the formulation?

People are talking about it.


Nary, nary do I wonder why.

If we could *implicitly* trust the (pet food) industry,
the Menu Foods fiasco couldn't have happened.

Begs the question, who "made" my Nutro NC Lamb/Rice (dry)?
Anybody know?

Thx,
P

www.petconnection.com
www.howl911.com

buglady
take out the dog before replying




"Life is nothing but a competition to be the criminal rather
than the victim."
- Bertrand Russell

  #4  
Old March 26th 07, 10:01 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Melinda Shore
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Posts: 7,732
Default Don't we need to know ...

In article ,
Puddin' Man Pudding Dot Man At Gmail Dot Com wrote:
Thanks. I'd not heard that. Amazing how they (i.e. mass-media)
manage to neglect reporting certain potentially important facts.


Even if you knew where the ingredients were assembled into
food, you still don't/wouldn't know where the ingredients
came from.

At bare minimum, the name of the contractor responsible
for acquiring, mixing, packaging the formulation?


You're aware that they'd have to print new bags or labels
whenever they swapped manufacturers, right?

If we could *implicitly* trust the (pet food) industry,
the Menu Foods fiasco couldn't have happened.


I don't think it's possible to achieve 100% safety, but the
industry can surely do better. Doing better, however, costs
money. How much extra would you be willing to pay for
manufacturer labels? Ingredient manufacturer labels?
Ingredient origin labels? There's a cost/safety tradeoff -
where do you sit along that curve? Where do you think most
people sit? Where do you think they'll sit in six months or
a year when the hubbub has died down?

There's a huge, huge market for crappy pet food. Maybe
people would be as insensitive to price as they are with gas
prices, but I really have no idea.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

If you can't say it clearly, you don't understand it yourself -- John Searle
  #5  
Old March 26th 07, 10:42 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Lynne
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Posts: 2,609
Default Don't we need to know ...

on Mon, 26 Mar 2007 21:01:28 GMT, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

I don't think it's possible to achieve 100% safety, but the
industry can surely do better. Doing better, however, costs
money. How much extra would you be willing to pay for
manufacturer labels? Ingredient manufacturer labels?
Ingredient origin labels? There's a cost/safety tradeoff -
where do you sit along that curve? Where do you think most
people sit? Where do you think they'll sit in six months or
a year when the hubbub has died down?


The profit margin in pet food is much higher than that of human food, and
I suspect it's because they have always been able to be wreckless and cut
corners. The industry is self-policed and do what they want. One
article I read stated that the FDA never inspects pet food manufacturing
facilities. Hopefully all of that will change (!!). As an aside, one of
my clients today told me of some automation work he was doing at the
Purina factory. He said he was cautioned not to touch anything. He said
the place is completely disgusting, moreso than waste water treatment
plants (think piles of rotting fish and other animal parts). No wonder
the FDA doesn't want to inspect those places!

There's a huge, huge market for crappy pet food. Maybe
people would be as insensitive to price as they are with gas
prices, but I really have no idea.


I doubt that people who buy premium foods are going to be willing to pay
more, especially since, in theory, premium foods are made with higher
quality ingredients and these companies claim to test, etc... so they
will have no excuse to raise prices. Of course that might not stop them.

I can see prices on the low end foods coming up, but I'll bet instead of
increasing the price of a 20 lb bag of kibble, they'll sell 18 lbs for
the same price as they currently sell 20.

They have a captive audience in pet owners, so it'll be interesting to
see how this all shakes out.

--
Lynne
  #6  
Old March 26th 07, 10:50 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Melinda Shore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,732
Default Don't we need to know ...

In article ,
Lynne wrote:
I doubt that people who buy premium foods are going to be willing to pay
more, especially since, in theory, premium foods are made with higher
quality ingredients and these companies claim to test, etc... so they
will have no excuse to raise prices. Of course that might not stop them.


Labelling requirements could push their costs up. I don't
look at dog food prices, myself, but I think I'm kind of
unusual in that regard.

I can see prices on the low end foods coming up, but I'll bet instead of
increasing the price of a 20 lb bag of kibble, they'll sell 18 lbs for
the same price as they currently sell 20.


That kind of thing already happens with some of the premium
stuff. We're currently giving Blue a shot and it comes in
15- and 30-lb bags. I wish decent food were readily
available in 50-lb bags, but that's another story.

They have a captive audience in pet owners, so it'll be interesting to
see how this all shakes out.


People seem to dump pets pretty easily, so I'm not sure. I
really have no idea how the pet food market would respond to
price changes. It will be interesting to see if there's a
legislative response, though - after 20-some-odd years of
Americans (most Americans, anyway) thinking government is
"the problem" the pendulum seems to be swinging the other
way and people seem more open to regulation when needed than
they were a few years ago.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

If you can't say it clearly, you don't understand it yourself -- John Searle
  #7  
Old March 26th 07, 11:08 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Lynne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,609
Default Don't we need to know ...

on Mon, 26 Mar 2007 21:50:15 GMT, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

Labelling requirements could push their costs up.


Definitely.

I don't
look at dog food prices, myself, but I think I'm kind of
unusual in that regard.


I don't, either, FWIW. I make feeding decisions based on research,
followed by a taste test. Then I try to find the best deal, but buy it
anyway.

That kind of thing already happens with some of the premium
stuff. We're currently giving Blue a shot and it comes in
15- and 30-lb bags. I wish decent food were readily
available in 50-lb bags, but that's another story.


Is your gas bill or your dog food bill higher?

People seem to dump pets pretty easily, so I'm not sure.


Oh, boy, that didn't even occur to me. Ugh.

I really have no idea how the pet food market would respond to
price changes. It will be interesting to see if there's a
legislative response, though - after 20-some-odd years of
Americans (most Americans, anyway) thinking government is
"the problem" the pendulum seems to be swinging the other
way and people seem more open to regulation when needed than
they were a few years ago.


Government regulation to prevent corporate misdeeds is a good idea in
theory, because unchecked, illegal/unethical behavior runs rampant. (I
know: DUH.) Too bad the government agencies who are supposed to keep
tabs are riddled with corruption, too. But I digress.

--
Lynne
  #8  
Old March 27th 07, 12:12 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Puddin' Man
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Posts: 19
Default Don't we need to know ...

On 26 Mar 2007 17:01:28 -0400, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

In article ,
Puddin' Man Pudding Dot Man At Gmail Dot Com wrote:
Thanks. I'd not heard that. Amazing how they (i.e. mass-media)
manage to neglect reporting certain potentially important facts.


Even if you knew where the ingredients were assembled into
food, you still don't/wouldn't know where the ingredients
came from.


Geographical origin isn't my issue.

Responsibility is.

At bare minimum, the name of the contractor responsible
for acquiring, mixing, packaging the formulation?


You're aware that they'd have to print new bags or labels
whenever they swapped manufacturers, right?


Pure torture, I'd wager! :-)

If we could *implicitly* trust the (pet food) industry,
the Menu Foods fiasco couldn't have happened.


I don't think it's possible to achieve 100% safety, but the
industry can surely do better.


No offence, but that might qualify as understatement of
the year (if not century).

Doing better, however, costs
money. How much extra would you be willing to pay for
manufacturer labels? Ingredient manufacturer labels?
Ingredient origin labels?


"A Reasonable Amount". In each case.

There's a cost/safety tradeoff -
where do you sit along that curve? Where do you think most
people sit? Where do you think they'll sit in six months or
a year when the hubbub has died down?


Depends on whether the hubub results in constructive
change.

There's a huge, huge market for crappy pet food. Maybe
people would be as insensitive to price as they are with gas
prices, but I really have no idea.


'Twere my impression that "crappy pet food" wasn't the central issue
at all. Menu Foods has been poisoning Wal-Mart whatever brand and
much better respected stuff like Nutro, Iams and Hill as well.

'Twere my impression that the real issue is responsibility. If
most major players in the industry can contract-out acquisition,
mixing, etc with impunity and then just point a finger to some
unknown contractor when boondoggles occur, we (or at least our
pets) are not optimally protected. It's a bad trend for the
industry, near as I can tell.

It actually occured to me that pet food was damned cheap previous to
the current nasty mess.

I am truly willing to pay a reasonable premium for thorough
quality-control of pet food for my furry critter. Suspect that
I am now "Not Alone". Precisely, say, what % of pet owners
share such view is another matter: I just dunno. But some
manner of fire is gonna get ignited under *somebody*.

And noone -yet- can tell me who "made" my Nutro. "That Dawg Won't
Hunt!!"

Skoal,
Puddin'

"Life is nothing but a competition to be the criminal rather
than the victim."
- Bertrand Russell

  #9  
Old March 27th 07, 12:16 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Lynne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,609
Default Don't we need to know ...

on Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:12:51 GMT, Puddin' Man
wrote:

And noone -yet- can tell me who "made" my Nutro.


Call Nutro and ask them.

--
Lynne
  #10  
Old March 27th 07, 12:20 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Melinda Shore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,732
Default Don't we need to know ...

In article ,
Puddin' Man Pudding Dot Man At Gmail Dot Com wrote:
"A Reasonable Amount". In each case.


Define "reasonable."

'Twere my impression that the real issue is responsibility. If
most major players in the industry can contract-out acquisition,
mixing, etc with impunity and then just point a finger to some
unknown contractor when boondoggles occur, we (or at least our
pets) are not optimally protected. It's a bad trend for the
industry, near as I can tell.


That's the way human food and pretty much everything else is
manufactured, as well. It's a big part of the reason why
stuff is so cheap, and why the standard of living is as high
as it is in the US, and where economic productivity comes
from, and so on.

I don't know what the answer is but I expect that it's not a
lot of harrumphing.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

If you can't say it clearly, you don't understand it yourself -- John Searle
 




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