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Lymphoma in Dog: General vet or specialist?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 30th 07, 02:47 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
Jonathan Grobe
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Posts: 1
Default Lymphoma in Dog: General vet or specialist?

My 11 year old black labrador apparently has lymphoma.
Should I take him to a veterinerary oncologist or can
a general vet treat him (apparently chemotherapy is the
standard treatment).

Anyone want to share their experiences?

--
Jonathan Grobe Books
Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:
http://www.grobebooks.com

  #2  
Old March 30th 07, 09:11 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
Ebbtide
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Posts: 2
Default Lymphoma in Dog: General vet or specialist?


"Jonathan Grobe" wrote in message
...
My 11 year old black labrador apparently has lymphoma.
Should I take him to a veterinerary oncologist or can
a general vet treat him (apparently chemotherapy is the
standard treatment).

Anyone want to share their experiences?

--
Jonathan Grobe Books
Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:
http://www.grobebooks.com


It depends what you expect as an outcome. My Lab was 8 when I found a large
lump on his right rear leg. I knew it had to be cancer. I took him to the
vet but did not have it biopsied, why? Three mos. later another one popped
up. I took him to our mountain home for the summer, he played in the streams
and woods, had a great time without his last 6 mos compromised. When he
stopped eating and had lost 18 lbs I knew he had little quality of life and
had him euthanized. It nearly killed me, but I will always remember his
summer of fun and pleasure rather than treatment and torture. As a nurse I
find too many people with family (and pets) not looking at the big picture.
It's hard I know, but try to do what it is in the best interest of your best
friend.
I will be thinking of you in this difficult time.

Joyce









  #3  
Old March 31st 07, 05:59 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
Tony[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Lymphoma in Dog: General vet or specialist?

Really take into consideration what it will cost to the outcome you are
always going to get. Get a second opinion straight away. I may sound cynical
but vets, petfood companies, drug companies are all in it for the money. If
you have the funds by all means but don't expect miracles.
Goodluck hope all goes well for you and your Lab.
Prevention is better than a cure something that western society must learn.
Try this site my friend
http://www.outoftheearth.com/natdiet.htm


"Jonathan Grobe" wrote in message
...
My 11 year old black labrador apparently has lymphoma.
Should I take him to a veterinerary oncologist or can
a general vet treat him (apparently chemotherapy is the
standard treatment).

Anyone want to share their experiences?

--
Jonathan Grobe Books
Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:
http://www.grobebooks.com



  #4  
Old March 31st 07, 02:24 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
Tara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,408
Default Lymphoma in Dog: General vet or specialist?

"Tony" . wrote in news:[email protected]
server.bigpond.net.au:

I may sound cynical
but vets, petfood companies, drug companies are all in it for the money.


That *does* sound cynical.....and not exactly true.

My vet is in it because she loveslovesLOVES animals- and I can name at
least two other local vets within two blocks of my apartment that are
exactly the same way. Just because she has to charge enough to keep herself
alive doesn't mean she's "in it for the money". Wow.

Tara
  #5  
Old March 31st 07, 02:39 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
Melinda Shore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,732
Default Lymphoma in Dog: General vet or specialist?

In article 6,
Tara wrote:
My vet is in it because she loveslovesLOVES animals- and I can name at
least two other local vets within two blocks of my apartment that are
exactly the same way. Just because she has to charge enough to keep herself
alive doesn't mean she's "in it for the money". Wow.


I have, alas, spent a lot of time up at the Cornell vet
school hospital. Every time I go up I have to see one or
two students before I get to see a clinician, and of the
probably three dozen students I've talked with there, there
was only one who left me with the impression that she was
making post-graduation decisions based on where she could
make the most money (boutique small animal practice in NYC).
It was not, however, my impression that she went into vet
school with the intention of becoming rich, Rich, RICH! in
the first place. A bunch of the students were planning on
going into large animal practice (i.e. definitely not in it
for the money [what money?]) and a few others were planning
on research careers. They all impressed me as being serious
about veterinary medicine, and they all were clearly gaga
over animals.

I've also met some people with small dog food companies. To
a man (they've all been men) they were educated animal
nutritionists who had ideas about what constituted good food
and wanted to make a living producing it. Obviously they
operate very differently from the big companies like Purina,
but still, there are a surprising number of these little
guys out there and I don't think it's appropriate or
accurate to insult them by saying that they're only in it
for the money.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

If you can't say it clearly, you don't understand it yourself -- John Searle
  #6  
Old March 31st 07, 03:19 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
Tony[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Lymphoma in Dog: General vet or specialist?


"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
In article 6,
Tara wrote:
My vet is in it because she loveslovesLOVES animals- and I can name at
least two other local vets within two blocks of my apartment that are
exactly the same way. Just because she has to charge enough to keep
herself
alive doesn't mean she's "in it for the money". Wow.


I have, alas, spent a lot of time up at the Cornell vet
school hospital. Every time I go up I have to see one or
two students before I get to see a clinician, and of the
probably three dozen students I've talked with there, there
was only one who left me with the impression that she was
making post-graduation decisions based on where she could
make the most money (boutique small animal practice in NYC).
It was not, however, my impression that she went into vet
school with the intention of becoming rich, Rich, RICH! in
the first place. A bunch of the students were planning on
going into large animal practice (i.e. definitely not in it
for the money [what money?]) and a few others were planning
on research careers. They all impressed me as being serious
about veterinary medicine, and they all were clearly gaga
over animals.

I've also met some people with small dog food companies. To
a man (they've all been men) they were educated animal
nutritionists who had ideas about what constituted good food
and wanted to make a living producing it. Obviously they
operate very differently from the big companies like Purina,
but still, there are a surprising number of these little
guys out there and I don't think it's appropriate or
accurate to insult them by saying that they're only in it
for the money.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

If you can't say it clearly, you don't understand it yourself -- John
Searle


I can see where you are coming from and I agree that vets love animals and
people who make the food love animals otherwise they wouldn't be in the
business but the bottom line is that it is 'business' and if they don't make
money they go out of business. (That is why my vet drives a Porsche) For
instance giving cortisone for an itch is just masking a problem not fixing
it ,so you either spend whole a lot of money on a specialist trying to find
that problem ($800 I heard) or keep on going back to get more cortisone from
the vet spending more money doing so then after a while problems come from
this cortisone use which the vet will do a blood test (more money) then put
the poor dog on a different medication to mask this other problem for
excessive cortisone use.
Human emotion is a powerful force and they all know it. People will pay on
emotion. The bigger the company the more heartless they are the more profit
they try to make.The drug company puts the price up the vet does, the food
company puts the cancer in, the drug companies are there to reap, the vet
passes it on to the public. Absolute rip off all of it.
Not all vets are like this but the vicious circle of today gives them no
choice sink or swim.
Actually it all starts with the breeders....that's another story.


  #7  
Old March 31st 07, 04:48 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
Melinda Shore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,732
Default Lymphoma in Dog: General vet or specialist?

In article ,
Tony . wrote:
I can see where you are coming from and I agree that vets love animals and
people who make the food love animals otherwise they wouldn't be in the
business but the bottom line is that it is 'business' and if they don't make
money they go out of business.


And if they go out of business we don't get veterinary care
or dog food. We need a service, they provide a service, and
that's how stuff works. Granted, the relationship is more
emotional than it is with, say, the guy that fixes your
furnace, but I'm really not sure what you're asking for.
You seem to feel that you're being taken advantage of, but
surely you don't expect that your vet or dog food
manufacturer will provide services without making a profit?
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

If you can't say it clearly, you don't understand it yourself -- John Searle
  #8  
Old March 31st 07, 04:49 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
Tara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,408
Default Lymphoma in Dog: General vet or specialist?

"Tony" . wrote in
:

I can see where you are coming from and I agree that vets love animals
and people who make the food love animals otherwise they wouldn't be
in the business but the bottom line is that it is 'business' and if
they don't make money they go out of business.


But saying that they earn enough to support themselves and enough to
maintain their business is COMPLETELY different than saying they are
"just in it for the money". Those two things don't necessarily bear any
relation to each other.

(That is why my vet
drives a Porsche)


Really? The only vet that I personally know that drives a fancy car was
born into a crapload of money to begin with and didn't get that car from
proceeds from his practice.

For instance giving cortisone for an itch is just
masking a problem not fixing it


Bull. Somtimes you have to stop the symptoms in order to prevent further
deterioration of a problem. Dogs that will create a hot spot from an
itchy spot is only one example of needing to stop the symptom before it
self perpetuates into something much worse *before* moving on to look at
deeper causes.

,so you either spend whole a lot of
money on a specialist trying to find that problem ($800 I heard) or
keep on going back to get more cortisone from the vet spending more
money doing so then after a while problems come from this cortisone
use which the vet will do a blood test (more money) then put the poor
dog on a different medication to mask this other problem for excessive
cortisone use.


You are grossly oversimplifying something that has many MANY issues
behind it. And then using that oversimplification as justification for
your sweeping, and insultingly inaccurate, statement.

Human emotion is a powerful force and they all know it.
People will pay on emotion. The bigger the company the more heartless
they are the more profit they try to make.The drug company puts the
price up the vet does, the food company puts the cancer in, the drug
companies are there to reap, the vet passes it on to the public.
Absolute rip off all of it. Not all vets are like this but the vicious
circle of today gives them no choice sink or swim.


Oh bull. And I love the lack of cites for your accusations. Makes for a
really strong argument.

Actually it all starts with the breeders....that's another story.


While I likely agree with that statement (who knows though, since you
see conspiracies everywhere, I might not), what you've written above
starts off not-so-bad, but rapidly veers off into ParanoiaLand, imo.

Tara


  #9  
Old March 31st 07, 05:46 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
Dale Atkin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 324
Default Lymphoma in Dog: General vet or specialist?

Tony wrote:
Really take into consideration what it will cost to the outcome you are
always going to get. Get a second opinion straight away. I may sound cynical
but vets, petfood companies, drug companies are all in it for the money.


Can't speak for pet food companies or drug companies, but I like to
think I have a somewhat meaningful opinion as far as vets. Your vet
might be in it for the money, but I know with a fair degree of certainty
that my vets aren't.
I've spent a fair amount of time volunteering at the vet clinic I take
Erwin and Dempsey to, and over that time I've gleaned a few things
regarding the economics of the practice.
You might find it interesting to know that the last two chemo patients
that came through were charged very close to the cost of the drug for
the treatment, despite the fact that it means the vet working closely
with known carcinogens (the techs dubbed the drug 'orange death'). Why
would he do this? Because he wants to make the animal better. The dogs
had been a regular patient of theirs for many years. He really wanted to
see them get better.

Now to the original poster. The two dogs I saw undergo chemo, one was a
little dog, and one was a lab. In neither case was the treatment
curative. In the case of the first dog, the tumor did shrink, and it
gave him several months of extra life.
In the case of the second dog, the cancer had already spread in to the
dog's lungs (at least they are pretty sure it had, the owners didn't
want to do an x-ray), and the dog didn't make it through the chemo.
One problem they had with the second dog (which they don't think had
anything to do with the failure of the treatment, but might have caused
problems if the dog had lived longer), is keeping the dog still enough
during the procedure. She kept moving around, and they were very worried
that she would rip out her IV.
I've heard that at some of the specialist centers, they have someone
essentially stand watch the whole time the drug is going in (and hold
the dog down if necessary). Obviously this is going to be a lot more
expensive.


If
you have the funds by all means but don't expect miracles.
Goodluck hope all goes well for you and your Lab.
Prevention is better than a cure something that western society must learn.
Try this site my friend
http://www.outoftheearth.com/natdiet.htm


Going to be a pretty useless rub salt in the wound if he already has the
problem, now isn't it?

Dale
  #10  
Old April 1st 07, 08:20 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
Tony[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Lymphoma in Dog: General vet or specialist?

Keep buying dog food and taking them to the vet for the problems it causes.
I don't really care I am telling you what you don't want to hear.. Feed the
dogs scraps, my mother and mothers mother did that and took the dog to the
vet once a year if that.


"Tara" wrote in message
4.196...
"Tony" . wrote in
:

I can see where you are coming from and I agree that vets love animals
and people who make the food love animals otherwise they wouldn't be
in the business but the bottom line is that it is 'business' and if
they don't make money they go out of business.


But saying that they earn enough to support themselves and enough to
maintain their business is COMPLETELY different than saying they are
"just in it for the money". Those two things don't necessarily bear any
relation to each other.

(That is why my vet
drives a Porsche)


Really? The only vet that I personally know that drives a fancy car was
born into a crapload of money to begin with and didn't get that car from
proceeds from his practice.

For instance giving cortisone for an itch is just
masking a problem not fixing it


Bull. Somtimes you have to stop the symptoms in order to prevent further
deterioration of a problem. Dogs that will create a hot spot from an
itchy spot is only one example of needing to stop the symptom before it
self perpetuates into something much worse *before* moving on to look at
deeper causes.

,so you either spend whole a lot of
money on a specialist trying to find that problem ($800 I heard) or
keep on going back to get more cortisone from the vet spending more
money doing so then after a while problems come from this cortisone
use which the vet will do a blood test (more money) then put the poor
dog on a different medication to mask this other problem for excessive
cortisone use.


You are grossly oversimplifying something that has many MANY issues
behind it. And then using that oversimplification as justification for
your sweeping, and insultingly inaccurate, statement.

Human emotion is a powerful force and they all know it.
People will pay on emotion. The bigger the company the more heartless
they are the more profit they try to make.The drug company puts the
price up the vet does, the food company puts the cancer in, the drug
companies are there to reap, the vet passes it on to the public.
Absolute rip off all of it. Not all vets are like this but the vicious
circle of today gives them no choice sink or swim.


Oh bull. And I love the lack of cites for your accusations. Makes for a
really strong argument.

Actually it all starts with the breeders....that's another story.


While I likely agree with that statement (who knows though, since you
see conspiracies everywhere, I might not), what you've written above
starts off not-so-bad, but rapidly veers off into ParanoiaLand, imo.

Tara




 




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