This is a situation that I had several years ago. Two of the dogs have
passed after living long lives and the third is now over 14 years old.
I've just always wondered what was going on within my little pack.

The oldest dog was a female German Wirehaired Pointer. She was an
outgoing, confident dog that I bought as an 8 week old pup. Right from
the start she was easy to train and seemed to worship me. She was
fairly aloof toward all other people and dogs; she was very tolerant
just not very interested. She preferred to play with toys rather than
dogs. She was spayed without ever breeding.

The next dog was also a female German Wirehaired Pointer. I got her
about 6 months after the first dog and she, too, was 8 weeks old when I
brought her home. She was/is a very timid dog. Given her soft
personality and my own training limitations I found it nearly impossible
to train anything beyond the very basic obedience commands. She was
never expected to be anything more than a pet so her lack of training
has never been (for me) a problem. She fell quite naturally into a very
submissive role. She was not nearly as aloof as the older one but very
cautious in new situations. Too happy to be a fear biter but cautious,
cautious, cautious! She preferred to play with other dogs and was, in
fact, afraid of squeaky toys. She was spayed without ever breeding.

The third dog was a male Dogue de Bordeaux. I got him as a 10 week old
pup. The older dogs were 3 and 3 1/2 years old when I brought him home.
Even as a pup it was obvious that he was dominant though not
aggressive. When the other dogs would run from a scary situation (a
tree falling on the house!) he ran toward it. The others would bark and
back away from intruders but he would bark and advance. He immediately
took the alpha role away from the oldest dog just through the strength
of his personality. These dogs were together for eight years and there
was never any squabbling. The Bordeaux was very bright and trainable;
he was completely devoted to me but always happy to meet new people and
new dogs. He loved playing with toys and other dogs. He was attacked
twice by smaller dogs and seemed to not even acknowledge them---too much
pride to stoop to bad behavior. He was neutered without ever breeding.

My questions are about the very submissive female. She never plays with
toys but loves to play with other dogs and was especially fond of
playing with the Bordeaux. She is very old now and has really slowed
down but back in the day she would play as hard as anybody with no holds
barred. The Bordeaux was large even for his breed and liked to play
rough. The two of them would play at any opportunity with the female
never failing to give as well as she got and never shrinking from his
overwhelming physical dominance. Why would a very dominant dog and a
very submissive dog be best friends? Why would a very submissive dog
engage in very rough play with a dog 2 1/2 times her size?

The activity that always amazed me the most was...well, ummm...humping.
The submissive female would climb aboard the sleeping Bordeaux and
hump him. He would wake up and tolerate it with no more concern than if
a fly had landed on his back! Why would a very dominant dog accept this
behavior from anybody? Why would a very submissive dog even think she
could get away with this? (Well, she did get away with it.)

George

George wrote:

The activity that always amazed me the most was...well, ummm...humping.
The submissive female would climb aboard the sleeping Bordeaux and hump
him. He would wake up and tolerate it with no more concern than if a
fly had landed on his back! Why would a very dominant dog accept this
behavior from anybody? Why would a very submissive dog even think she
could get away with this? (Well, she did get away with it.)


Humping can be sexual, but it doesn't have to be.
Humping can be a sign of dominance, but it doesn't have to be.
Humping can just be friendly, but it doesn't have to be.
Humping can probably be any number of other things that dogs know about
and that people can only guess.
Humans can misguess pack structure, and pack structure can change at
different times for any number of reasons.
There doesn't necessarily have to be a pack structure, or it can be so
subtle that people don't recognize it.

I'd conclude that you female GWPointer humped your male DdBordeaux
because she could and because he didn't mind. On the other hand, maybe
she did it because he reminded her of a laundry bag. Our female
Springer Spaniel-Border Collie mix used to hump the laundry bag filled
with dirty laundry whenever, ahem, humping was happening in the bedroom.


--Lia

"Julia Altshuler" wrote in message
. ..
Our female
Springer Spaniel-Border Collie mix used to hump the laundry bag filled
with dirty laundry whenever, ahem, humping was happening in the bedroom.

This might actually be funnier (and way more distracting) than the disgusted
"hrrumph" Spenser gives as he gets off the bed and leaves the room!

Judy

Judy wrote:

This might actually be funnier (and way more distracting) than the disgusted
"hrrumph" Spenser gives as he gets off the bed and leaves the room!


You've just mentioned the delicate reason I don't let dogs on the bed in
the first place. The living room couch is fine for dogs if they need a
comfortable place to sleep. Cubbe ignores us, no hrrmphing or anything,
just hangs out on the couch.


--Lia