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Confusing Test Result



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 21st 07, 05:08 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Suja
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Posts: 2,483
Default Confusing Test Result


The University of Tennessee Panel came back for Khan. One abnormal finding,
which is unusual according to our regular vet, who said that she has
normally seen at least two, if not more of the hormone numbers being off.
The abnormal finding is as follows:

Androstenedione

Pre Post

4.1 (high-normal is 3.6) 62 (high-normal is 29)

We're waiting for the internist to review. The endocrinologist at U of TN
has recommended Melatonin and Flax Seed Oil with lignans.

Suja


  #2  
Old May 21st 07, 11:17 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
FurPaw
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Posts: 1,469
Default Confusing Test Result

Suja wrote:
The University of Tennessee Panel came back for Khan. One abnormal finding,
which is unusual according to our regular vet, who said that she has
normally seen at least two, if not more of the hormone numbers being off.
The abnormal finding is as follows:

Androstenedione

Pre Post

4.1 (high-normal is 3.6) 62 (high-normal is 29)

We're waiting for the internist to review. The endocrinologist at U of TN
has recommended Melatonin and Flax Seed Oil with lignans.

Suja


Are you getting any kind of diagnosis yet?

FurPaw

--
My family values don't involve depleted uranium.

To reply, unleash the dog.
  #3  
Old May 22nd 07, 02:33 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
buglady
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Posts: 863
Default Confusing Test Result


"Suja" wrote in message
...

Androstenedione
Pre Post
4.1 (high-normal is 3.6) 62 (high-normal is 29)


..........I haven't the faintest idea what that is, so of course I had to
look!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androstenedione

It's a precursur to sex hormones, and is produced in the adrenals. Did you
join the Cushings group? I'd run this by them to see if anyone had similar
results.

This paper is pretty dense, but this is the first time I've seen mention of
food -dependent Cushings. Apparently in this instance, cortisol is low in
AM and climbs by PM. Just out of curiosity, what time of day was Kahn's
blood drawn for this test? And was he still on thyroid meds? I think
it's weird only one value was abnormal.

http://edrv.endojournals.org/cgi/con...l/edrv;22/1/75

buglady
take out the dog before replying


  #4  
Old May 23rd 07, 07:42 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Suja
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Posts: 2,483
Default Confusing Test Result


"buglady" wrote in message:

It's a precursur to sex hormones, and is produced in the adrenals.


Yup. And, this result has the internist stumped as well. Apparently, we
have a 'puzzle' on our hands. Mind you, she has been doing this for 30
years, is cited copiously, chairs committees, etc., and doesn't think that
the hair/coat changes we're seeing can be explained by that single abnormal
change in the hormone profile.

Did you
join the Cushings group? I'd run this by them to see if anyone had

similar
results.


Yes. There are people with single abnormal results out there. Their dogs
also have other abnormal values on their blood tests.

AM and climbs by PM. Just out of curiosity, what time of day was Kahn's
blood drawn for this test? And was he still on thyroid meds?


Morning. Yes, he's still on Thyroid meds. I am pretty sure he had that on
the morning before the test.

I think
it's weird only one value was abnormal.


You and everyone else, apparently. There are other paths the internist
wants to follow, but I'm putting a stop to it right now. We could do a 24
hour water deprivation test, a punch biopsy on his skin to be sent to a sex
hormone mediated skin change specialist at UPenn, etc. but I don't see a
point in it. We'll do Melatonin/Flax Seed Oil for now, repeat the
urinalysis/blood work in 6 months. As the vet said, you can follow this
until your bank account is empty, but it's difficult to justify subjecting a
perfectly normal acting dog to any more procedures.

Suja


  #5  
Old May 23rd 07, 08:03 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
ceb
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Posts: 953
Default Confusing Test Result

"Suja" wrote in news:%V%4i.112264$NK5.107152
@newsfe23.lga:

We'll do Melatonin/Flax Seed Oil for now, repeat the
urinalysis/blood work in 6 months.


I think that sounds like a really good plan. You're doing what's
recommended, and you're watching and waiting to see what happens.

--
Catherine
& Zoe the cockerchow
& Queenie the black gold retriever
& Max the pomeranian
& Rosalie the calico cat
  #6  
Old May 23rd 07, 08:24 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
buglady
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Posts: 863
Default Confusing Test Result


"Suja" wrote in message
...
We'll do Melatonin/Flax Seed Oil for now, repeat the
urinalysis/blood work in 6 months. As the vet said, you can follow this
until your bank account is empty, but it's difficult to justify subjecting

a
perfectly normal acting dog to any more procedures.


.......nope, that's for sure!

buglady
take out the dog before replying


  #7  
Old May 23rd 07, 09:01 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Judy
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Posts: 1,411
Default Confusing Test Result

"Suja" wrote in message
...
As the vet said, you can follow this
until your bank account is empty, but it's difficult to justify subjecting
a
perfectly normal acting dog to any more procedures.


Just as a thought - normal ranges on many blood tests for us humans are
based on percentages, not on actual disease conditions. As one doctor
explained it to me, normal is actually average. My normal might not be
within the average but may still be normal for me. Is it possible that
Khan's test numbers are normal for him and don't indicate anything in
particular?

As another example, DD has a WBC count that shows out of the range of
normal. Once it's broken down into various components, each one is within
normal upper limits but when combined create a reading above normal. Since
there were some fairly serious possibilities, she has gone through multiple
tests. The hematologist concluded that IF there is anything wrong, it's not
likely to kill her - nor is it causing symptoms other than the test
readings. So they do annual bloodwork just to keep an eye on it but
probably even that is a CYA procedure for the doctor.

Judy


  #8  
Old May 24th 07, 11:58 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
buglady
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Posts: 863
Default Confusing Test Result


"Judy" wrote in message
...
"Suja" wrote in message
...

Is it possible that
Khan's test numbers are normal for him and don't indicate anything in
particular?


........I sort of wondered the same thing myself. How many neutered males
have they done the complete TN protocol testing on? I just wonder if
there's any compensatory adjustments after neutering over the years that
they just haven't looked at.

buglady
take out the dog before replying


  #9  
Old May 25th 07, 12:36 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
buglady
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 863
Default Confusing Test Result


"Suja" wrote in message
...
Yup. And, this result has the internist stumped as well. Apparently, we
have a 'puzzle' on our hands.


........suja, you might be interested in reading the latest journal articles
on endocrine problems. It's at Science Direct, whom I've never known to
allow access before - so I'll give you the site I accessed it from - may be
that the Guest Pass was arranged from this blog: Vetcetera:
http://catmanager.wordpress.com/ - April 27th entry

Clinical Techniques in Small Animal Practice, Vol. 22, Iss. 1 (February
2007)—all articles relate to adrenal disease, including diagnosing canine
hyperadrenocorticism, use of mitotane versus trilostane, and feline adrenal
disorders.

I clicked on Summary Plus. Probably still can't view full text.

buglady
take out the dog before replying


 




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