Hi Y'all,
I checked out Pat Miller's web site to learn about her. I was
especially interested in what her thoughts were on the class Diddy
mentioned for reactive dogs. I was not exactly sure what the term
meant. My theory was confirmed. It is for dogs that can be or are dog
aggressive. She has impressive credentials. I read what she had to say
about dogs in general and found myself agreeing with what she had to
say.
Then out of the corner of my eye I see Cesar's book "Cesar's Way" with
the traditional red circle with a slash thru the middle over Cesar's
face. My understanding of that symbol is just say NO to in this case
Cesar.
I continued to read an editorial that she had written trashing his
book in a magazine called "Bark". She went on to list any group or any
one of prominence in the dog world that did not approve of Cesar. She
also listed every negative item written about him.
I find her need to trash Cesar to such an extent rather pitiful. This
is not about Cesar. Yes, I have acknowledged that I am a devotee of
his. That is not why I am writing this. She seems to have it together
as a dog trainer/behaviorist etc. I reserve my final opinion until I
see her in action but I like what I read. I agree with her. She seems
to be good at what she does.
Why did she take so much time and effort to bad mouth him or anyone.
I read her article it did not sound as if she felt that she was saving
the world from him IMO. I could understand if she felt like he was a
danger to the dog world and it's owners.
Generally speaking I don't care for politicians, religions, and in
this case dog behaviorists that bad mouth others of their like. I much
prefer that she/they play up their assets and she definitely has them
instead of wasting so much effort tearing down someone else.
She could have been critiquing any other dog person and I would have
found it just as distasteful unless of course they were promoting
cruelty and abuse.


Be Free.....Judy

(Judith Althouse) wrote
in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

Hi Y'all,
I checked out Pat Miller's web site to learn about her. I was
especially interested in what her thoughts were on the class Diddy
mentioned for reactive dogs. I was not exactly sure what the term
meant. My theory was confirmed. It is for dogs that can be or are
dog aggressive. She has impressive credentials. I read what she had
to say about dogs in general and found myself agreeing with what she
had to say.
Then out of the corner of my eye I see Cesar's book "Cesar's Way"
with
the traditional red circle with a slash thru the middle over Cesar's
face. My understanding of that symbol is just say NO to in this case
Cesar.
I continued to read an editorial that she had written trashing his
book in a magazine called "Bark".

If saying that his book tells you what to do, but gives no real
instructions on how to do it is trashing him, then I guess she trashed
him. Most people would call it a simple review of his book.

She went on to list any group or
any one of prominence in the dog world that did not approve of Cesar.
She also listed every negative item written about him.

Could you link me to that page(s)?? On the page of the review, there are
a bunch of links below her article, none of which are written by her.

snip

Why did she take so much time and effort to bad mouth him or anyone.
I read her article it did not sound as if she felt that she was saving
the world from him IMO. I could understand if she felt like he was a
danger to the dog world and it's owners.

She was probably asked to write a review article, and she did. If she
doesn't like his book or his methods, what is she supposed to do, llie??

snip

She could have been critiquing any other dog person and I would have
found it just as distasteful unless of course they were promoting
cruelty and abuse.

Keep in mind that, to her, his methods *are* barbaric and have no real
redeeming value.

--
Marcel and Moogli

On Tue, 29 May 2007 19:22:12 -0500, diddy
wrote:

in thread :
(Judith Althouse) whittled the following words:

Hi Y'all,
I checked out Pat Miller's web site to learn about her.
She is a PP trainer. That is the standard for PP trainers.

She is the epitome of the Shining Pather.

She's seen the light, and won't rest until everyone else has, too.

Or else!

They all have a vocation against anything not PP.

Not a vocation, but an antipathy towards anything (or anyone) not
Purely Positive.

Still, she is a wonderful, world renowned trainer, and feel she will do
Muttley and Paul some good.

At this point, probably the only one who can do Muttley any good is
God.

I prefer seeing a trainer with more tools in their tool boxes,

Only the fool refuses to use every tool available to him.

but she's
got such a handle on the tools that she uses that she's an expert.

I'd give just about anything for Frau Miller to take her one and only
tool out to the field and show us dumb ol' hillbillies how it's done.

The video would be in great demand, that's for sure!

And then maybe we could put an end to all this PP nonsense.

Nah.

As long as there's Kool-Aid, there will be someone who'll drink it.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Prouder than ever to not be a member of the "reality-based community"!

And another one bites the dust! Australian scientist changes his mind about "global warming":
http://mises.org/story/2571

Yo! Melinda Shore! Read this article! She's talking about *you.*
http://www.melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=510

On 30 May 2007 00:37:01 GMT, Marcel Beaudoin
wrote:

[...]
Could you link me to that page(s)?? On the page of the review, there are
a bunch of links below her article, none of which are written by her.

On her web site http://www.peaceablepaws.com/, she says:

"DOG TRAINERS, EXPERTS CONCUR:
Cesar Millan's philosophy is not ours."

con-cur

1. to accord in opinion; agree

So she's a liar, to boot, because there are at least as many experts
and dog trainers out there who think Millan's philosophy is just fine.

It's the same bogus appeal to authority that the "global warming"
fanatics use, when they claim that there's a "consensus."

There is NO such consensus.

And experts and dog trainers most certainly do NOT concur with Pat
Miller.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Prouder than ever to not be a member of the "reality-based community"!

And another one bites the dust! Australian scientist changes his mind about "global warming":
http://mises.org/story/2571

Yo! Melinda Shore! Read this article! She's talking about *you.*
http://www.melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=510

Diddy,
I forgot to add to my lengthy post that I do hope Paul and Muttley get
to take advantage of her wisdom. I would like to attend a class of
her's myself. I am not down on her. I just think she seemed to be
obsessed with hating Cesar.


Be Free.....Judy

Marcel,
No, I do not want her to lie about her opinions when it comes to Cesar
or anyone else.
She could have written a simple critque as she did without linking
multiple negative articles about him. It was a little overkill IMO.
I think it was his book cover with the red slash and circle that I
found a little childish and overdone.
I still say I would like to read more about her talents and less about
why she doesn't like Cesar. She seemed threatened by him. I don't know
why.


Be Free.....Judy

"Judith Althouse" wrote in message
...
Hi Y'all,
I checked out Pat Miller's web site to learn about her. I was
especially interested in what her thoughts were on the class Diddy
mentioned for reactive dogs. I was not exactly sure what the term
meant. My theory was confirmed. It is for dogs that can be or are dog
aggressive. She has impressive credentials. I read what she had to say
about dogs in general and found myself agreeing with what she had to
say.
Then out of the corner of my eye I see Cesar's book "Cesar's Way" with
the traditional red circle with a slash thru the middle over Cesar's
face. My understanding of that symbol is just say NO to in this case
Cesar.
I continued to read an editorial that she had written trashing his
book in a magazine called "Bark". She went on to list any group or any
one of prominence in the dog world that did not approve of Cesar. She
also listed every negative item written about him.
I find her need to trash Cesar to such an extent rather pitiful. This
is not about Cesar. Yes, I have acknowledged that I am a devotee of
his. That is not why I am writing this. She seems to have it together
as a dog trainer/behaviorist etc. I reserve my final opinion until I
see her in action but I like what I read. I agree with her. She seems
to be good at what she does.
Why did she take so much time and effort to bad mouth him or anyone.
I read her article it did not sound as if she felt that she was saving
the world from him IMO. I could understand if she felt like he was a
danger to the dog world and it's owners.
Generally speaking I don't care for politicians, religions, and in
this case dog behaviorists that bad mouth others of their like. I much
prefer that she/they play up their assets and she definitely has them
instead of wasting so much effort tearing down someone else.
She could have been critiquing any other dog person and I would have
found it just as distasteful unless of course they were promoting
cruelty and abuse.


Be Free.....Judy
==================
I agree, Judy, if she is as great as everyone here says she is why would she
find it necessary to bash Cesar and his book on her website? She must be
somewhat jealous of his popularity. There was no need for her to do that
and so not necessary. She should stick to her own business and speak of
what methods she uses on her site, instead bashing other people's methods,
and let us judge for ourselves which methods we prefer. To do something
like that, to me, is very unprofessional.

On Tue, 29 May 2007 21:14:30 -0400, Handsome Jack Morrison
wrote:

On 30 May 2007 00:37:01 GMT, Marcel Beaudoin
wrote:

[...]
Could you link me to that page(s)?? On the page of the review, there are
a bunch of links below her article, none of which are written by her.

On her web site http://www.peaceablepaws.com/, she says:

"DOG TRAINERS, EXPERTS CONCUR:
Cesar Millan's philosophy is not ours."

Oops! Wrong page.

http://www.sfspca.org/Viewpoint/1030.shtml

And it's actually the SFSPCA (I presume) uttering those words.

But the link to it is on Miller's web site, so presumably she
"concurs" with them.

Heh.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Prouder than ever to not be a member of the "reality-based community"!

And another one bites the dust! Australian scientist changes his mind about "global warming":
http://mises.org/story/2571

Yo! Melinda Shore! Read this article! She's talking about *you.*
http://www.melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=510

Judith Althouse wrote:
Hi Y'all,
I checked out Pat Miller's web site to learn about her.

This was http://www.peaceablepaws.com/?

Then out of the corner of my eye I see Cesar's book "Cesar's Way" with
the traditional red circle with a slash thru the middle over Cesar's
face. My understanding of that symbol is just say NO to in this case
Cesar.

Clicking on that picture takes you to an article by Jean Donaldson.

I continued to read an editorial that she had written trashing his
book in a magazine called "Bark". She went on to list any group or any
one of prominence in the dog world that did not approve of Cesar. She
also listed every negative item written about him.

This one?
http://www.4pawsu.com/cesar.htm

I find her need to trash Cesar to such an extent rather pitiful. This
is not about Cesar. Yes, I have acknowledged that I am a devotee of
his. That is not why I am writing this. She seems to have it together
as a dog trainer/behaviorist etc. I reserve my final opinion until I
see her in action but I like what I read. I agree with her. She seems
to be good at what she does.

Why did she take so much time and effort to bad mouth him or anyone.
I read her article it did not sound as if she felt that she was saving
the world from him IMO. I could understand if she felt like he was a
danger to the dog world and it's owners.
Generally speaking I don't care for politicians, religions, and in
this case dog behaviorists that bad mouth others of their like. I much
prefer that she/they play up their assets and she definitely has them
instead of wasting so much effort tearing down someone else.
She could have been critiquing any other dog person and I would have
found it just as distasteful unless of course they were promoting
cruelty and abuse.

Interesting how two people reading the same thing can see it so
differently -

I didn't think she trashed Milan; I thought her expressions of
disagreement with his methods were stated quite professionally.
(Some of the links that followed her review were less
professional statements, but she didn't write them.) She has a
lot of company in the animal behaviorist community (Jean
Donaldson, Patricia McConnell, Nicholas Dodman...), and I am sure
she has plenty of detractors as well.

The main value I see in Cesar's message is his reiteration that
the human needs to maintain a calm, assertive "energy" of
authority in dealing with a problem dog. He doesn't tell HOW one
does that - it's not easy to describe - but he does it himself
and gives people something to model. But don't most other
dog/people trainers maintain the same thing? Know what you want
the dog to do, be firm, be clear, be consistent, don't ask the
dog's permission, don't show fear or anxiety or nervousness?

FurPaw

--
My family values don't involve depleted uranium.

To reply, unleash the dog.

Handsome Jack Morrison wrote
in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

On Tue, 29 May 2007 21:14:30 -0400, Handsome Jack Morrison
wrote:

On 30 May 2007 00:37:01 GMT, Marcel Beaudoin
wrote:

[...]
Could you link me to that page(s)?? On the page of the review, there
are a bunch of links below her article, none of which are written by
her.

On her web site http://www.peaceablepaws.com/, she says:

"DOG TRAINERS, EXPERTS CONCUR:
Cesar Millan's philosophy is not ours."

Oops! Wrong page.

http://www.sfspca.org/Viewpoint/1030.shtml

And it's actually the SFSPCA (I presume) uttering those words.

But the link to it is on Miller's web site, so presumably she
"concurs" with them.

Heh.

But just saying that is not the same as listing "...any group or any
one of prominence in the dog world that did not approve of Cesar. She
also listed every negative item written about him."

As for what is on the SFSPCA's website, just because she agrees with Jean
Donaldson's article does not also mean that she has any control over what
other things that the SFSPCA has written on that page, or that it was
even there when the article was first written.

That being said, she (Pat Miller) does not agree with Cesar' method.
However, by linking to JD's article, she also presumably agrees with JD's
statement that "...less invasive (i.e. without pain or force) techniques
must be competently tried and exhausted before more invasive techniques
attempted."

She (JD) is not totally discounting Cesar's method. She would rather it
not be chosen as the first method of treatment.

Marcel


--
Marcel and Moogli