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Legislation would require pet owners spay or neuter most cats, dogs



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 24th 07, 11:27 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Handsome Jack Morrison
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Posts: 3,772
Default Legislation would require pet owners spay or neuter most cats, dogs


A show of hands will do.

Who wants to give people like Todd Stosuy (and other members of the
"reality-based" community) the power to determine what constitutes a
responsible breeder?

http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_6218465?source=rss

spit

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Prouder than ever to not be a member of the "reality-based" community.
  #2  
Old June 25th 07, 01:13 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
bethgsd
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Posts: 526
Default Legislation would require pet owners spay or neuter most cats, dogs


"Handsome Jack Morrison" wrote in message
...

A show of hands will do.

Who wants to give people like Todd Stosuy (and other members of the
"reality-based" community) the power to determine what constitutes a
responsible breeder?

http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_6218465?source=rss

spit

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

This is some seriously scary stuff. There is proposed legislation in DC
that is very similar in wording.
I've been encouraging friends and family in CA to contact their reps and let
them know that they are opposed.

Beth


  #3  
Old June 25th 07, 02:56 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Shore
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Posts: 7,732
Default Legislation would require pet owners spay or neuter most cats, dogs

In article PMDfi.2585$yN.1136@trnddc07,
bethgsd wrote:
I've been encouraging friends and family in CA to contact their reps and let
them know that they are opposed.


I'd really like to know if anybody's got some workable ideas
about what to do about the rather serious pet overpopulation
problem. It's pretty much out of control and it's turning
into a public policy problem (cf. "negative externality").
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #4  
Old June 25th 07, 06:07 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Paul E. Schoen
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Posts: 1,654
Default Legislation would require pet owners spay or neuter most cats, dogs


"bethgsd" wrote in message
news:PMDfi.2585$yN.1136@trnddc07...

"Handsome Jack Morrison" wrote in
message ...

A show of hands will do.

Who wants to give people like Todd Stosuy (and other members of the
"reality-based" community) the power to determine what constitutes a
responsible breeder?

http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_6218465?source=rss

spit

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

This is some seriously scary stuff. There is proposed legislation in DC
that is very similar in wording.
I've been encouraging friends and family in CA to contact their reps and
let them know that they are opposed.

Beth


From what I have read about this law, it does seem like a serious and
arbitrary attack on individual freedom. Yes, most pets should be spayed or
neutered, but it should be my decision, not the government's. However, I
think it would be acceptable to promote responsible pet ownership by
increasing the cost of licensing an intact animal by the approximate cost
of a spay/neuter. There are reasons to keep an animal intact, other than
breeding, and that should be recognized, and allowed for any responsible
individual. The additional revenue can be used to provide low cost vet care
and education.

Paul and Muttley


  #5  
Old June 25th 07, 11:48 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Shore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,732
Default Legislation would require pet owners spay or neuter most cats, dogs

In article ,
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
The additional revenue can be used to provide low cost vet care
and education.


Or maybe the additional revenue can be used to pay for the
costs of cleaning up the mess caused by pet overpopulation.
Right now that's being paid for by taxpayers and insurance
premiums. Or maybe you're one of the putzes who thinks that
pet overpopulation doesn't affect anybody but the breeders
and the animals?

I pay more to register intact animals - $5 more per dog.
Woohoo! If it were to go up enough to cover the costs
incurred by slovenly pet owner behavior you'd see the same
kind of "You're not the boss of me!" crap you're seeing
right now in response to the California proposal and you'd
see more people not bothering to register their intact dogs.

Smart but libertoonian Tyler Cowan has said that Americans
should be required to show basic economic literacy before
being allowed to vote. I disagree - I think there's a basic
right to vote and his proposal is basically fascist. Still,
it's pretty depressing that people don't have better tools
at their disposal for helping them frame and evaluate policy
problems.

So, what *do* you do when a large bunch of people refuse to
take responsibility for their actions and they displace the
costs of their irresponsibility onto the broader population?
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #6  
Old June 25th 07, 12:59 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Julia Altshuler
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Posts: 1,121
Default Legislation would require pet owners spay or neuter most cats,dogs

Melinda Shore wrote:

I'd really like to know if anybody's got some workable ideas
about what to do about the rather serious pet overpopulation
problem. It's pretty much out of control and it's turning
into a public policy problem (cf. "negative externality").



Good question. It's so easy to shoot down ideas. I think the proposed
legislation is bad too. That makes me all the more interested if
there's legislation that would work better.


Perhaps it would be good to study what's being done in my part of New
England. It's practically impossible to adopt a puppy here. There's
not much selection of older dogs in the shelters either. I've known
people to drive to shelters in Georgia to get a mutt. Shelters import
dogs from the Carolinas and Puerto Rico. This is all good news.


I'd love to see the puppy mills shut down, but the legislation would
have to be awfully precise to separate the puppy millers from the
responsible breeders, and I don't think anyone wants law makers who
don't know anything much about dogs writing the legislation.


--Lia

  #8  
Old June 25th 07, 04:39 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Julia Altshuler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,121
Default Legislation would require pet owners spay or neuter most cats,dogs

ceb wrote:

Yes -- we're one of the areas imported from. I was shocked, in a pleased
sort of way, to learn that. IIRC, it had to do with the shelters doing
the neutering before an animal could be adopted? Rather than adopting out
with a spay/neuter contract, as we do here.



It must be a combination of things-- money to do the neutering at the
shelter, money to adopt out fairly healthy dogs with heartworm treatment
and vax, money to pick up strays immediately (you almost never see a dog
unattended), money for education, etc. I'm not even sure where the
money comes from. Cubbe's $80 adoption fee seemed high to us coming, as
we did, from Florida, but the money can't all be in adoption fees.
There aren't that many dogs to adopt! Her yearly tag only costs $15.
I'm not sure where the money is coming from, or if it has to do with
money at all. But someone's doing something right.


--Lia

  #9  
Old June 25th 07, 05:15 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Handsome Jack Morrison
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Posts: 3,772
Default Legislation would require pet owners spay or neuter most cats, dogs

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 11:24:25 -0400, Handsome Jack Morrison
wrote:

On 24 Jun 2007 21:56:10 -0400, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

In article PMDfi.2585$yN.1136@trnddc07,
bethgsd wrote:
I've been encouraging friends and family in CA to contact their reps and let
them know that they are opposed.


I'd really like to know if anybody's got some workable ideas
about what to do about the rather serious pet overpopulation
problem.


That sounds like something Herman Goering might have said!

It's pretty much out of control and it's turning
into a public policy problem (cf. "negative externality").


No, what is happening is that a certain "reality-based" community,
composed mostly of do-gooders, busybodies, AR whackos, tree-huggers,
utopians, control freaks, charlatans, socialists, hall monitors and
nannies, is trying to tell the rest of us how to live,.

And their activities aren't just confined to the forced sterilization
of our dogs. They even want to force us to eat less (or different)
food (too many fat people!)! Prohibit us from smoking a cigar in the
privacy of our own homes (too many people dying of cancer!)! Force us
to wear a helmet just to ride a bicycle to the corner market (too many
people being killed by angry Chinese drivers!)! Etc. Etc. Etc.

And we really haven't seen anything yet. The "global warming" scam, if
it succeeds, will allow them to prohibit us from living in certain
places, traveling to certain places, enjoying certain lifestyles and
activities, etc. They will be dictating the size of our houses, the
size of our cars, the number of children we can have, the distance
between our houses, even whether we can own our own cars! All in the
name of "energy conservation," "carbon footprints," and other utopian
mumbo jumbo.

Not all "problems" can be solved! Not all "problems" even need to be
solved!

Heck, I think the biggest problem we have facing us today is the
"reality-based" community itself.

If some legislator would just write a bill to forcibly sterilize the
"reality-based" community itself, starting with anyone who ever voted
for Al Gore, it would surely enjoy broad appeal, especially in the Red
States!

Now that's a "workable idea" I could really get behind!

Heh.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Lawyers. spit
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archi...e_law_fir.html

Operation Arrowhead Ripper: Day One.
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/...er-day-one.htm

The Return of Inspector Dan Rather:
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk...tings_alw.html

If boys do it, it's sexist, if girls do it, it's liberating.
http://drhelen.blogspot.com/2007/06/...rls-do-it.html

Throw the bums out!
http://tammybruce.com/2007/06/congress_approval.php

Yo, Judith!
http://blogs.nypost.com/movies/archi...on_m.html#more
http://www.freemarketcure.com/
http://blog.nam.org/archives/2007/06/the_real_sicko.php
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/06/2...michael-moore/

Do you remember me?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ervaMPt4Ha0&eurl=

Harry Reid. "It's time for you to go!'
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.c...4B5D5BDB0E7D4A

You gotta be shittin' us, Harry, you sorry excuse for a human being.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rZdAB4V_j8&eurl=

Parent, grandparent, etc. of a boy? Get this book!
The Dangerous Book for Boys, by Conn & Hal Iggulden
http://www.dangerousbookforboys.com/

  #10  
Old June 25th 07, 05:36 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Handsome Jack Morrison
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,772
Default Legislation would require pet owners spay or neuter most cats, dogs

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 11:28:00 -0400, Handsome Jack Morrison
wrote:

[...]
So, what *do* you do when a large bunch of people refuse to
take responsibility for their actions and they displace the
costs of their irresponsibility onto the broader population?


Again, you're starting to sound like Herman Goering.

The answer to your question, in a FREE SOCIETY, is essentially to do
nothing!

We've been living with "irresponsible" people for thousands of years
now, and they will always be with us.

And we've also been living with certain people who enjoy pointing out
what is "irresponsible" behavior, e.g., Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Castro,
Pot, the "reality-based" community, etc.

Frankly, "irresponsible" people have had far less of a negative impact
on society over the years than the utopian tyrants who enjoyed "doing"
something about them.

Let sleeping dogs lie, and stop trying to "do" so many things, eh?

Just live your *own* life the best you can, and then die.

Preferably quietly.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Lawyers. spit
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archi...e_law_fir.html

Operation Arrowhead Ripper: Day One.
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/...er-day-one.htm

The Return of Inspector Dan Rather:
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk...tings_alw.html

If boys do it, it's sexist, if girls do it, it's liberating.
http://drhelen.blogspot.com/2007/06/...rls-do-it.html

Throw the bums out!
http://tammybruce.com/2007/06/congress_approval.php

Yo, Judith!
http://blogs.nypost.com/movies/archi...on_m.html#more
http://www.freemarketcure.com/
http://blog.nam.org/archives/2007/06/the_real_sicko.php
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/06/2...michael-moore/

Do you remember me?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ervaMPt4Ha0&eurl=

Harry Reid. "It's time for you to go!'
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.c...4B5D5BDB0E7D4A

You gotta be shittin' us, Harry, you sorry excuse for a human being.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rZdAB4V_j8&eurl=

Parent, grandparent, etc. of a boy? Get this book!
The Dangerous Book for Boys, by Conn & Hal Iggulden
http://www.dangerousbookforboys.com/

 




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