I have come to understand and observe the opposition reflex in various
contexts. After a brief search I found the following:

http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/LA/distano1.htm

He adds a different twist to what seems to be normally taught, using two
collars and a good-guy / bad-guy approach. He also describes a method where
corrections are purposely done in a way that the dog does not see them
coming from his handler, so the opposition reflex is not directed back at
the one seeking control. He cites Kohler (1962).

http://www.superdog.com/advice-pages/forge.html

(mostly a discussion on collars)

http://www.amazingdogtrainingman.com...opposition.htm

This is an audio clip that explains this in common sense terms. He
recommends a GL, and also reward-based cooperative methods.

I think Jerry would benefit from having a similar web page with audio
clips. He suggests a text-to-voice converter. This would be much better.

http://humanresources.about.com/od/l...ion_making.htm

This is not exactly about opposition reflex, but I found it interesting. It
touches on how people make decisions and the role of solid training as a
foundation for effective handling of emergencies.

http://www.pet-manual.co.uk/showthread/t-1532.html

I was surprised to find many hits (www.dogpile.com) referenced Jerry's
postings, and it seems like this website is devoted to his manual! It is a
series of archives, without dates, but interesting.

==========

Recently I think I have observed the opposition reflex in non-physical,
human terms. For instance, when one my posts opposed someones predetermined
mindset, I would often see a reflexive response in direct opposition to
what they interpreted it to mean. In turn, their direct opposition to my
point of view, or their special spin or erroneous comments, triggered my
opposition reflex and sometimes induced me to reply hastily. Knowing this,
I can use it to my advantage, or at least understand why people (or
animals) act as they do.

I am surprised that Jerry does not seem to recognize or use this in his
online efforts to convince people to try his methods. I'm sure he has
written off most everyone here, but his extensive abusive attacks are sure
to trigger an opposition reflex, resulting in emotionally charged responses
and no dialog.

I see the opposition reflex often with Muttley. I'll try to use it, or
reduce its occurrance, as I continue with his training.

Paul and Muttley

in thread : "Paul E. Schoen"
whittled the following words:


I see the opposition reflex often with Muttley. I'll try to use it, or
reduce its occurrance, as I continue with his training.

Paul and Muttley


Your are polluting Jerry's method by interjecting those of others, trashing
the experiment

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 15:01:57 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen"
wrote:

[...]
Recently I think I have observed the opposition reflex in non-physical,
human terms. For instance, when one my posts opposed someones predetermined
mindset, I would often see a reflexive response in direct opposition to
what they interpreted it to mean.

That's not what you're seeing at all, El Stupido! What you're seeing
is called the Corrective Reflex.

For example, when an irresponsible drunk driver slams into a telephone
pole at 80 mph, he experiences what's called a "Corrective Reflex."

Or when some doofus tries to steal money from certain old farts (like
those noted in the links below), they get pounded into the ground, or
shot.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286847,00.html
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...home-headlines
Again, those are examples of the "Corrective Reflex" in action! It's
a Darwinian thing, and we need much more of it.

And since on the Internet we can't really physically pound you into
the ground, or shoot you, whenever you say or do stupid, irresponsible
things (which you do pretty much every time you open your big fat
mouth or walk a step), we do the next best thing we can and throw
barbs at you.

It's not as much fun as pounding you into the ground or shooting you
would be, but it'll have to do, and it's FREE!

And as soon as we can afford to hire a ring-girl, we're going to raise
ticket prices!

I am surprised that Jerry

Speaking of Jerry, aren't you due for another lesson with him yet?

#1B?

Yo, Jerry!

Wherrrrre aaaaare yooooou?

Oh, Jerrrrrrrrrr-reeeey!

"Shane--come back, Shane!"

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Yo, Judith! Watch this: "When your government becomes your doctor"
http://sickandsickermovie.com/

Don't mess with old farts (especially if they've ever worn the Eagle, Globe & Anchor)!
Part One:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286847,00.html
Part Two:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...home-headlines

Free condoms for Mexico!
http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=062807C

Immigration bill goes down in flames! Yip-ee-i-oh, yip-ee-i-ay!

Freakin' arrogant putas. spit

"Cloture Passes and I Re-assess My Patriotism"
http://shotsacrossthebow.com/archives/002724.html

Control-freaks from the "reality-based" community are at it again!
http://www.examiner.com/a-801194%7EG...alk_radio.html

Way to go, Vikings!
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/20...e-denmark.html

United States 2, Mexico 1
Too bad, muchachas putierrez! Better luck next time, putas!
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/sp...&oref=sl ogin

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 14:13:12 -0500, diddy
wrote:

in thread : "Paul E. Schoen"
whittled the following words:

I see the opposition reflex often with Muttley. I'll try to use it, or
reduce its occurrance, as I continue with his training.

Paul and Muttley


Your are polluting Jerry's method by interjecting those of others, trashing
the experiment

Hey, hey, hey! This is no holds barred fighting!

Schoen can do whatever he wants to do!

So can Howe!

May the best doofus win!

Yee-hah!

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Yo, Judith! Watch this: "When your government becomes your doctor"
http://sickandsickermovie.com/

Don't mess with old farts (especially if they've ever worn the Eagle, Globe & Anchor)!
Part One:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286847,00.html
Part Two:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...home-headlines

Free condoms for Mexico!
http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=062807C

Immigration bill goes down in flames! Yip-ee-i-oh, yip-ee-i-ay!

Freakin' arrogant putas. spit

"Cloture Passes and I Re-assess My Patriotism"
http://shotsacrossthebow.com/archives/002724.html

Control-freaks from the "reality-based" community are at it again!
http://www.examiner.com/a-801194%7EG...alk_radio.html

Way to go, Vikings!
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/20...e-denmark.html

United States 2, Mexico 1
Too bad, muchachas putierrez! Better luck next time, putas!
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/sp...&oref=sl ogin

"diddy" wrote in message
...
in thread : "Paul E.
Schoen"
whittled the following words:


I see the opposition reflex often with Muttley. I'll try to use it, or
reduce its occurrance, as I continue with his training.

Paul and Muttley


Your are polluting Jerry's method by interjecting those of others,
trashing
the experiment

No. For now I am gleaning and processing information, but attempting to
follow Jerry's method as closely as possible. The opposition reflex is
specifically addressed in his manual, and I am adding nothing new to my
training. A deeper base of understanding is always helpful.

I tried a few more brief "hot and cold" exercises today, in several
locations, but the result is always that he stops pulling, sits, lays down,
or rolls around, without looking at me. This continues whether or not I
praise him or "engage him in conversation". Only when I tell him we will
continue on the walk, or otherwise provide him with direction, does he
briefly pay attention, and then go where he wants, except for changes I
choose to make.

Paul and Muttley

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote
in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

I tried a few more brief "hot and cold" exercises today, in several
locations, but the result is always that he stops pulling, sits, lays
down, or rolls around, without looking at me. This continues whether
or not I praise him or "engage him in conversation". Only when I tell
him we will continue on the walk, or otherwise provide him with
direction, does he briefly pay attention, and then go where he wants,
except for changes I choose to make.

Muttley's training of you is coming along nicely I see.

--
Marcel and Moogli

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 15:47:38 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen"
wrote:

[...]
Your are polluting Jerry's method by interjecting those of others,
trashing
the experiment

No. For now I am gleaning and processing information,

....and coming up with your usual results - nothing!

Nada. Zilch. Zero.

And that's using a "guaranteed 100% fool-proof" method!

Imagine the horror, had it only been, say, 75% fool-proof?

[...]
I tried a few more brief "hot and cold" exercises today, in several
locations, but the result is always that he stops pulling, sits, lays down,
or rolls around, without looking at me.

Hell, 99% of all dogs can do that, and without having to study so
hard!

But please don't give up yet!

Please, please don't!

We've sold thousands of tickets to this match, the folks at AOLBB are
just now getting to their seats, and even Paris Hilton has promised to
stop by and show us her beaver!

Don't give up!!!

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Yo, Judith! Watch this: "When your government becomes your doctor"
http://sickandsickermovie.com/

Don't mess with old farts (especially if they've ever worn the Eagle, Globe & Anchor)!
Part One:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286847,00.html
Part Two:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...home-headlines

Free condoms for Mexico!
http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=062807C

Immigration bill goes down in flames! Yip-ee-i-oh, yip-ee-i-ay!

Freakin' arrogant putas. spit

"Cloture Passes and I Re-assess My Patriotism"
http://shotsacrossthebow.com/archives/002724.html

Control-freaks from the "reality-based" community are at it again!
http://www.examiner.com/a-801194%7EG...alk_radio.html

Way to go, Vikings!
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/20...e-denmark.html

United States 2, Mexico 1
Too bad, muchachas putierrez! Better luck next time, putas!
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/sp...&oref=sl ogin

In article ,
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
No. For now I am gleaning and processing information,

And turning it into compost, apparently.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

"Marcel Beaudoin" wrote in message
. ..
"Paul E. Schoen" wrote
in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

I tried a few more brief "hot and cold" exercises today, in several
locations, but the result is always that he stops pulling, sits, lays
down, or rolls around, without looking at me. This continues whether
or not I praise him or "engage him in conversation". Only when I tell
him we will continue on the walk, or otherwise provide him with
direction, does he briefly pay attention, and then go where he wants,
except for changes I choose to make.

Muttley's training of you is coming along nicely I see.


Once again, I repeated the exercise, for about four minutes in each of four
locations. He pulled as usual to the first location, and it took some
effort to have him stop on a loose leash, within 10-20 seconds or so. At
one point he glanced at me, and I said "Good boy, Muttley", and he started
moving to resume his walk. He was facing away, so I could not see his eyes
roll, or hear him mutter under his breath. But he sat down, looking away,
and further praise produced no response. He did his usual rolls and
occasional wandering, but mostly stood or sat there. He responded on my
second announcement that we would continue our walk, and we went a short
way before repeating the exercise in another area. After four repetitions
of this, he seemed more manageable, and did LLW on our way back to the
house. As we got there, a neighbor from down the street passed by, and
Muttley was very attentive. I exchanged greetings with him, and he
continued on his way. Muttley pulled a little to get closer, but was
certainly not clawing his way to get to him. He would not come back when
called (that is a future lesson), but after a brief pat on his head he
turned around and went into the house.

None of this behavior is particularly new or surprising, but as part of a
specific and consistent training exercise, it may be showing some
improvement.

Stay tuned. You people are so easily amused!

Paul and Muttley

"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
No. For now I am gleaning and processing information,

And turning it into compost, apparently.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -



And the compost, wouldn't it be high in nitrogen since **** is considered a
green for that purpose?

Beth

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community