A dog & canine forum. DogBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » DogBanter forum » Dog forums » Dog health
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Dog allergies - where to start?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 3rd 07, 01:24 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Judy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,411
Default Dog allergies - where to start?

My brother's Bichon has itchy allergies. They are treating with Benadryl
every day. The vet simply says it's environmental. They got the dog
recently at 3 years old and the previous owners also reported the allergies
but not what they had tried to control them other than the Benadryl.

The dog is inside most of the time. That doesn't rule out contact allergies
or pollen-type allergies, but could it be food allergies?

Can food allergies cause itchy skin? No visible rash, no flaking, no welts.
Itchy skin. And he snores like an old man.

And if they were to try to work their way through a food allergy, how best
to start? Simple foods, I'd guess. But what are the highest probable
culprits? Any suggestions of commercial foods to start with?

(And I'm asking this question when I have a limping computer. I got hit
with a power surge and, while my laptop is still mostly working, I have a
new computer ordered. I tell y'all this just in case it finally crashes and
I lose my newsgroup access. If I don't answer immediately - since my only
access then would be via google on a neighbor's computer - it's not that I
don't appreciate and value your input. And all fingers crossed that this
computer hangs in there until the new one arrives and I fight through
setting it up.)

Thanks,
Judy
Spenser - Carbor Talk of the Town, AX, AXJ, NF
Sassy - Can CH Carbor Back Talk, OA, AXJ


  #2  
Old July 3rd 07, 02:55 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Lynne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,609
Default Dog allergies - where to start?

on Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:24:35 GMT, "Judy" wrote:

Can food allergies cause itchy skin? No visible rash, no flaking, no
welts. Itchy skin. And he snores like an old man.


Interesting. My girl is having the same symptoms (though she only snores
when she has her nose shoved into the blankets...). We are seeing the vet
this afternoon. How did the vet conclude it is allergies--were tests run
to rule out other possible causes?

Sorry I don't have helpful information.

--
Lynne
  #3  
Old July 3rd 07, 03:34 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Suja
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,483
Default Dog allergies - where to start?


"Judy" wrote in message:

My brother's Bichon has itchy allergies. They are treating with Benadryl
every day. The vet simply says it's environmental.


Unless he's done a skin test, how does he know that?

The dog is inside most of the time. That doesn't rule out contact

allergies
or pollen-type allergies, but could it be food allergies?


It's possible. Also, it could be both.

Can food allergies cause itchy skin?


Yes. Allergies can be tricky, because they can manifest in lots of
different ways.

And if they were to try to work their way through a food allergy, how best
to start? Simple foods, I'd guess. But what are the highest probable
culprits? Any suggestions of commercial foods to start with?


Most common allergens in dogs (not in any particular order, because I don't
remember it) - beef, chicken (including eggs), wheat, soy, corn, and dairy.
It certainly couldn't hurt to try a limited ingredient diet that does not
contain any of the same ingredients that the dog's current food does. CA
Natural is a good place to start. Wellness has a new line that has single
source protein/carbs. There are a bunch of other ones that may not be
limited ingredients, but have unusual ingredients (like fish and potato,
venison and barley, bison and oatmeal, etc.).

Suja


  #4  
Old July 3rd 07, 03:45 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Judy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,411
Default Dog allergies - where to start?

"Lynne" wrote in message
. 97.142...
How did the vet conclude it is allergies--were tests run
to rule out other possible causes?


As far as I know, it was diagnosed with no real testing. And it may have
been supported by the previous owner's use of Benadryl and that it seems to
help.

I just thought if they could do a little experimenting with foods and IF
they found that it helped, then they could eliminate the Benadryl.

But the only experience I have with a dog with allergies is one who was
highly allergic to cat fleas. That took Prednisone to bring under control
each time he was exposed.

Judy
Spenser - Carbor Talk of the Town, AX, AXJ, NF
Sassy - Can CH Carbor Back Talk, OA, AXJ


  #5  
Old July 3rd 07, 04:00 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Judy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,411
Default Dog allergies - where to start?

"Suja" wrote in message
...

"Judy" wrote in message:

My brother's Bichon has itchy allergies. They are treating with Benadryl
every day. The vet simply says it's environmental.


Unless he's done a skin test, how does he know that?


As far as I know, there has been no testing done. I think he's basing it on
history. Previous owners had treated with Benadryl and believed that it
helped. My brother and his wife have just continued to do what the previous
owners did. And the vet was content to let it ride as long as they were
happy and the dog wasn't terribly uncomfortable.

I just thought if there were a possibility of a food allergy, that it
couldn't hurt to try some other food and see what happens.

Most common allergens in dogs (not in any particular order, because I
don't
remember it) - beef, chicken (including eggs), wheat, soy, corn, and
dairy.
It certainly couldn't hurt to try a limited ingredient diet that does not
contain any of the same ingredients that the dog's current food does. CA
Natural is a good place to start. Wellness has a new line that has single
source protein/carbs. There are a bunch of other ones that may not be
limited ingredients, but have unusual ingredients (like fish and potato,
venison and barley, bison and oatmeal, etc.).


Thanks. I'll pass that on to them. Probably I'll also have to come up with
a list of local (to them) sources for each. They're in a fairly
metropolitan area so it shouldn't be a problem but they have limited time to
search things out. But if I tell them what to do and try, they are likely
to do it. Right now he's getting a Pedigree Small Dog Formula - ingredient
list starts with corn, I think. They'd prefer something that would come
from the grocery store - just to simplify their own busy lives - but if they
could find a food that helped Pete, they'd make the additional effort to get
it. Assuming that it's NOT a food allergy, he's doing okay on the Pedigree.

The previous owners had cautioned them about keeping the dog from
overeating. So they were feeding the amount they were told. When I first
met the dog (seven weeks ago), you could not only feel all of his ribs and
his backbone, you could *see* them. And the dog was hungry all of the time.
I suggested that while it was important to keep his weight under control
that he could stand to put on a pound or so. They increased his food and
while you can still feel the ribs and backbone, they aren't visible anymore.
And he's no longer desperately hungry all the time. So they will listen.

Thanks for the information.
Judy
Spenser - Carbor Talk of the Town, AX, AXJ, NF
Sassy - Can CH Carbor Back Talk, OA, AXJ



  #6  
Old July 3rd 07, 04:04 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default Dog allergies - where to start?

If they can afford it or are willing, take her to a vet
dermatologist. The tests are'nt that reliable for food, but did
identify that my senior poodle is allergic to most grasses. He is on
Hills Venison/potato and is doing the best he has done in years. He
is also on allergy shots every 3-5 days. An elimination diet is the
only true way to determine food allergies. I don't have the patience
for that. One thing the derm told me.. no more treats/bones....unless
it was a fruit or veggie treat. They love dried apples or fresh, baby
carrots, tomatoes, any type of melon. Easy on nightshade type
veggies. Absolutely no people food unless it is a fruit/veggie.. but
not flavored with chicken/beef broth or bacon bits in green beens.
They can try a food switch yourself..one protein and one carb. BUT
they may need to remain on it for 3 months to get the full benefit.
California Natural is a good one to start with.. there are only about
4-6 ingredients in that food, Wellness fish and sweet potato (dexter
was on this for a good while), or rx food from the vet..hills zd ultra
or venison and potato. There are other commerical ones you can get at
a grain/feed store but I do not personally have experience with them..
Dexter was on Eukanuba K/O for about a year and developed a
intolerance for the oat/grain..i think. He started vomiting bile
several times a week. Switched the food... problem gone

Another thing that the vet recommended since he is allergic to grass
and blooming trees... wiping down his feet with baby wipes....every
time he comes in from outside. It was no easy task and i gave up
easily. Now that he is blind and not so apt to jump over me i could
do it. But when it is nice outside and they want to go outside every
20-30 minutes....it is a big pain. Genesis spray is another good
topical treatment that you get from the vet. It has a very mild
steroid in it and you start twice a day for x amount of days, once a
day, then every other etc...

good luck!!!
Tracey



On Jul 3, 10:34 am, "Suja" wrote:
"Judy" wrote in message:
My brother's Bichon has itchy allergies. They are treating with Benadryl
every day. The vet simply says it's environmental.


Unless he's done a skin test, how does he know that?



The dog is inside most of the time. That doesn't rule out contact

allergies
or pollen-type allergies, but could it be food allergies?


It's possible. Also, it could be both.

Can food allergies cause itchy skin?


Yes. Allergies can be tricky, because they can manifest in lots of
different ways.

And if they were to try to work their way through a food allergy, how best
to start? Simple foods, I'd guess. But what are the highest probable
culprits? Any suggestions of commercial foods to start with?


Most common allergens in dogs (not in any particular order, because I don't
remember it) - beef, chicken (including eggs), wheat, soy, corn, and dairy.
It certainly couldn't hurt to try a limited ingredient diet that does not
contain any of the same ingredients that the dog's current food does. CA
Natural is a good place to start. Wellness has a new line that has single
source protein/carbs. There are a bunch of other ones that may not be
limited ingredients, but have unusual ingredients (like fish and potato,
venison and barley, bison and oatmeal, etc.).

Suja



  #7  
Old July 3rd 07, 04:11 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default Dog allergies - where to start?

On Jul 3, 11:04 am, wrote:
If they can afford it or are willing, take her to a vet
dermatologist. The tests are'nt that reliable for food, but did
identify that my senior poodle is allergic to most grasses. He is on
Hills Venison/potato and is doing the best he has done in years. He
is also on allergy shots every 3-5 days. An elimination diet is the
only true way to determine food allergies. I don't have the patience
for that. One thing the derm told me.. no more treats/bones....unless
it was a fruit or veggie treat. They love dried apples or fresh, baby
carrots, tomatoes, any type of melon. Easy on nightshade type
veggies. Absolutely no people food unless it is a fruit/veggie.. but
not flavored with chicken/beef broth or bacon bits in green beens.
They can try a food switch yourself..one protein and one carb. BUT
they may need to remain on it for 3 months to get the full benefit.
California Natural is a good one to start with.. there are only about
4-6 ingredients in that food, Wellness fish and sweet potato (dexter
was on this for a good while), or rx food from the vet..hills zd ultra
or venison and potato. There are other commerical ones you can get at
a grain/feed store but I do not personally have experience with them..
Dexter was on Eukanuba K/O for about a year and developed a
intolerance for the oat/grain..i think. He started vomiting bile
several times a week. Switched the food... problem gone

Another thing that the vet recommended since he is allergic to grass
and blooming trees... wiping down his feet with baby wipes....every
time he comes in from outside. It was no easy task and i gave up
easily. Now that he is blind and not so apt to jump over me i could
do it. But when it is nice outside and they want to go outside every
20-30 minutes....it is a big pain. Genesis spray is another good
topical treatment that you get from the vet. It has a very mild
steroid in it and you start twice a day for x amount of days, once a
day, then every other etc...

good luck!!!
Tracey

On Jul 3, 10:34 am, "Suja" wrote:

"Judy" wrote in message:
My brother's Bichon has itchy allergies. They are treating with Benadryl
every day. The vet simply says it's environmental.


Unless he's done a skin test, how does he know that?


The dog is inside most of the time. That doesn't rule out contact

allergies
or pollen-type allergies, but could it be food allergies?


It's possible. Also, it could be both.


Can food allergies cause itchy skin?


Yes. Allergies can be tricky, because they can manifest in lots of
different ways.


And if they were to try to work their way through a food allergy, how best
to start? Simple foods, I'd guess. But what are the highest probable
culprits? Any suggestions of commercial foods to start with?


Most common allergens in dogs (not in any particular order, because I don't
remember it) - beef, chicken (including eggs), wheat, soy, corn, and dairy.
It certainly couldn't hurt to try a limited ingredient diet that does not
contain any of the same ingredients that the dog's current food does. CA
Natural is a good place to start. Wellness has a new line that has single
source protein/carbs. There are a bunch of other ones that may not be
limited ingredients, but have unusual ingredients (like fish and potato,
venison and barley, bison and oatmeal, etc.).


Suja


How many times a day do they give the dog benadryl?? I'm able to give
dexter (15lbs) the larger 1/2 of a 25mg tablet up to 3x a day. I
rarely have to do it 3x though. I have also found that most white/
cream dogs that have pink skin, are more sensitive to things as simple
as grooming. Dexter's (just turned 15) allergies got worse as he gets
older

sorry if this double posts

  #8  
Old July 3rd 07, 11:02 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Judy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,411
Default Dog allergies - where to start?

wrote in message
oups.com...
How many times a day do they give the dog benadryl??


When I was there this past weekend, they were giving it twice a day - but I
didn't notice what amount.

They did just recently have him groomed - which *could* have caused an
irritation - but as I understand them, it's an on-going problem.

I know we have had to stop clipping the pads on our schnauzers - one of them
gets irritated every time. So we're doing scissor trimming instead.

Thanks for the thoughts in your previous post about possible foods.

Judy
Spenser - Carbor Talk of the Town, AX, AXJ, NF
Sassy - Can CH Carbor Back Talk, OA, AXJ


  #9  
Old July 4th 07, 12:34 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Lynne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,609
Default Dog allergies - where to start?

on Tue, 03 Jul 2007 22:02:49 GMT, "Judy" wrote:

When I was there this past weekend, they were giving it twice a day -
but I didn't notice what amount.

They did just recently have him groomed - which *could* have caused an
irritation - but as I understand them, it's an on-going problem.

I know we have had to stop clipping the pads on our schnauzers - one
of them gets irritated every time. So we're doing scissor trimming
instead.

Thanks for the thoughts in your previous post about possible foods.


Okay, here's what my vet said about allergies, which he thinks my dog
has. Maybe this will be useful for you, too.

He said if it's a flea allergy, it will usually present as an angry rash
on top of the rump/hindquarters and also sometimes the belly. If it's a
food allergy, it's usually "ears and rears" meaning ear infections, lots
of butt licking and possible gastro symptoms. If it's an environmental
allergy, it will usually present as all over itching and shedding and
sometimes light pinkness to the skin and ears (but no ear infections).

My dog has the latter, and he said we are catching it early. He said a
lot of dogs with environmental allergies will lick and bite themselves so
much they will get hot spots and skin infections. Thankfully Roxy obeys
me when I tell her to stop and she has none of that brewing. He also
said she is at the age where many dogs develop environmental allergies
(which could be anything from grass, trees, pollens, dust, molds and even
cat dander). Roxy is about 22 months old. He said that it will probably
be even worse next year. So at this age skin testing is premature and
won't be conclusive, not with regards to her long term allergies anyway
(because she will probably develop more before this is over with). So he
doesn't think skin testing is a good idea, not now, and it may never be
neccessary *for her* (keep reading).

I'm not really interested in skin testing and allergy shots, anyway.
That never helped my son who has massive food and environmental
allergies. In his case, we could only give shots for a few of his worst
allergies, which did nothing for the rest of them. So we stopped those
and my son took antihistimines and still does. This keeps his
environmental allergies under control. For food, we avoid what he is
allergic to.

So my vet said there are a bunch of different antihistimines that are
effective for dogs w/environmental allergies. Some have few to no
observable side effects. We are trying her on Atarax first. My son took
this for years with no adverse effects whatsoever, and so I'm very
comfortable with this. He said if she doesn't have relief in 2 weeks,
we'll try a different one because if it's going to work, it'll be within
that time period.

He said there's no way my dog has a food allergy because her ears look
too good, and she rarely licks her (own!) butt. He also said it's not
dry skin from her food (Canidae), which he thinks is an excellent feed.
She is shedding far too much, all over, she has no flaking skin, and
there is also some mild pinkness in her arm pits. Those things don't
indicate a dietary deficiency in his opinion, they indicate environmental
allergies. Of course skin tests are the only absolutely conclusive way
to diagnose these, but I personally don't see the need to go that route.
Not at this time, anyway. If no antihistimines are successful, I'll be
singing a different song down the road.

I'm really happy with this vet and trust him here. I hope the Atarax
works for her. If not, we'll try something else in 2 weeks. If it does
work, it could happen that at some time in the future it will stop being
as effective and we'll need to switch her (this has happened to my son 3
times in 11 years, and so far Zyrtec has been effective for the most
years running).

To the OP, read into this what you will. I don't want to advise you on
what to advise to them. I will say that I think *perhaps* they are
already on the right track. I personally wouldn't be comfortable giving
Benadryl, but that's just me. That stuff, even a child's dose, renders
me completely unable to function (OTOH, Claritin works and I have no side
effects at all. Everyone, human and dog, is different). They should
discuss their options with their vet. You may want to consider "if it
ain't broke, don't fix it" but only under the advice of a vet, of course

I think you are a lovely person to be helping this dog and his people!

As an aside, Roxy has no sign of mange. He said at his practice they
just diagnose it by treating it if they think it might be sarcopic mange,
because the skin tests are only about 50% accurate and the treatment is
harmless. Their treatment for sarcopic mange is (topical) Revolution, 2
doses, 2 weeks apart, FYI.

--
Lynne
  #10  
Old July 4th 07, 02:38 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Sharon Too
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 664
Default Dog allergies - where to start?

He said if it's a flea allergy, it will usually present as an angry rash
on top of the rump/hindquarters and also sometimes the belly. If it's a
food allergy, it's usually "ears and rears" meaning ear infections, lots
of butt licking and possible gastro symptoms. If it's an environmental
allergy, it will usually present as all over itching and shedding and
sometimes light pinkness to the skin and ears (but no ear infections).


Our dog had food allergies with symptoms of chronic ear issues and severe
rash with itching on the lower abdomen and genital area. When Hills Z/D came
out we were skeptical but tried it for a month. It literally saved her from
a (shortened) lifetime of steroids and other medication. She lived to the
age of 15 comfortably.

We have a practice and my husband is a vet. When he suspects food allergies
he advises the client to use the Z/D food exclusively (no treats other than
the Z/D nuggets and maybe some raw vegetables) for at least a month. If they
are true food allerigies by this point there will be a huge difference - at
least a noticable difference if it's a combination food/environmental
allergy. It doesn't hurt to try it and takes much less time than single food
elimination trials.

If your vet doesn't have the Z/D, ask what he/she recommends for food
allergy diets.

Here's a link for the Z/D: http://tinyurl.com/3cnxdn

a snippet:

"Only Prescription Diet® z/d® is formulated with Hill's Hydrolyzed Protein
SystemT, a process that breaks down intact animal proteins and virtually
eliminates the possibility of an adverse reaction to food."


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
This may start another Cesar war, but... FurPaw Dog behavior 8 May 25th 07 01:56 AM
When To Start Training a Pup? AuralFeast Dog behavior 0 September 10th 03 02:46 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0 (Unregistered)
Copyright ©2004-2019 DogBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.