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Lucky/Muttley Courtship



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 21st 07, 06:13 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Paul E. Schoen
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Posts: 1,654
Default Lucky/Muttley Courtship

Today I took Muttley to the kennel to see Lucky again. First, I had the
attendant give him a bath. My friend noticed that he smelled kinda nasty
when we visited in her house the night before, so this was a good
opportunity. Meanwhile, I took Lucky out from her cage/run, and worked on
some basic training. She needs to learn it all, but she is smart and eager
to please, so it should not be too difficult. The young woman who had given
him his bath brought him out, smelling like a freakin' petunia, and anxious
to get to me and Lucky. They had met before, but they had to check each
other out, and Lucky barked a few times when Muttley probably got too
frisky. She seemed more interested in initiating play, while Muttley was
doing his best Buddha imitation.

We moved to the small fenced area, and allowed them to interact for a few
more minutes, on leash. They briefly got the leashes tangled, due to a
quick move, but they were fine, and we unclipped the leashes to allow them
freedom. They were then calmer, and seemed to do a dance that sometimes had
them ignoring each other, and at other times circling and sniffing side by
side. Again, Lucky seemed more interested in playing, while Muttley was
more aloof. There were several of us there with them, casually talking,
petting and praising both dogs, allowing them to explore the area, and
calling them to us. Muttley sits as a "default" behavior, but will also do
it on voice or hand signal. Lucky needs work on that. She eventually sat on
command, but turned around and sat on my foot.

At one point, apparently, Muttley tried to mount her. He's shooting blanks,
but he probably remembers his affair with his Rottie bitch, while he was
still a feral street dog. However, she abruptly turned and put on a brief
but impressive display of barking and bared teeth, that caused Muttley to
back off and come over to me. The message was delivered and accepted. The
line was drawn, and then all was forgiven. They continued their "courtship"
by walking around and occasionally pawing each other. They both chewed on
some weeds, and were comfortable enough with each other, and us humans, to
lay in the sun and roll over, accepting petting and attention, but not
demanding it. Neither dog showed any jealosy when I alternating petting,
scratching ears, or even offering treats (which of course I gave only
according to NILIF).

I think they will be OK with each other. My trainer said that the critical
period will likely be 1-2 weeks, but there were no red flags during this
encounter. It seems clear that she is not in season, so her surgery
scheduled for Monday should go fine. We have arranged a safe place for her
to be crated and care for Monday evening, and then on Tuesday or Wednesday
I will see if I can bring her into my house with Muttley.

That may be a tricky situation, as Muttley will have free run of the house,
while I will probably need to keep Lucky tethered or crated for a while
until she gets used to her new environment, and heals from the spay. It
will also be difficult handling them on walks. Muttley is usually very good
now with LLW, but occasionally he tests me when he sees or hears a deer or
something. Lucky still needs training, although she seems much less
reactive toward wildlife. However, walking both together may be a recipe
for disaster, as their total of 140 pounds of powerful dog could overpower
my best efforts to restrain them. So, I might walk them separately to the
exercise fence, and then get them to run around and stretch their legs.

The eventual, best solution will be to find a separate home for Lucky. I
love both dogs, and I have heard that sometimes two can be easier to care
for than one. But Muttley, at least, does not show any separation anxiety,
and Lucky was also used to being neglected, so that's not a major factor.
We have some possible leads, and we hope that Lucky will be able to charm
her way into someone's heart and home. She is really a sweet dog, and as
long as someone sees her for more than a big scary probable PBT/Rottie
cross, she will make a wonderful pet.

I do have some competent in-person guidance for this adventure, but as
always I appreciate and enjoy any advice and discussion.

Paul, Muttley, and Lucky


  #2  
Old July 21st 07, 07:24 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Shore
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Posts: 7,732
Default Lucky/Muttley Courtship

In article ,
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
I think they will be OK with each other. My trainer said that the critical
period will likely be 1-2 weeks, but there were no red flags during this
encounter.


1-2 weeks is the honeymoon period. The dogs don't know the
situation is permanent at first, and it takes them that long
to figure it out. Surprising things happen after that
period is over. In the meantime, I don't see any reason to
think you'd recognize a red flag if it took a crap on your
face. But that's okay - this isn't about the dogs, it's
about you You YOU!
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #3  
Old July 21st 07, 05:05 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Paul E. Schoen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,654
Default Lucky/Muttley Courtship


"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
I think they will be OK with each other. My trainer said that the
critical
period will likely be 1-2 weeks, but there were no red flags during this
encounter.


1-2 weeks is the honeymoon period. The dogs don't know the
situation is permanent at first, and it takes them that long
to figure it out. Surprising things happen after that
period is over. In the meantime, I don't see any reason to
think you'd recognize a red flag if it took a crap on your
face. But that's okay - this isn't about the dogs, it's
about you You YOU!
--


I'm not interested in arguing right now. I have two *dogs* to take care of.
Everyone who posts here talks about their problems with dogs, or what they
are teaching the dog, or what they think about dog and non-dog issues. My
post was mostly about what the *dogs* were doing, and how I was working
with *others* to assure they both will have the best lives possible. *I*
have admitted that, with Muttley, *I* am the one that needs training, as
everyone here agrees.

So, thanks for the insight on the "honeymoon period". But does it make
*you* feel better to say bad things about me? Luckily, I am like
Teflon-coated rubber, so the crap you sling doesn't stick and bounces back
at U-U-U. And *thanks* for throwing *your* negative spin to this thread,
which will now likely steer away from the *dogs*. If it were not for the
love I have for these dogs, and other critters, Muttley and Lucky would be
taking dirt naps, and I would not have had the dubious pleasure of meeting
U-U-U here.

Now, does anyone want to talk about *dogs*?

Muttley, Lucky and Paul


  #4  
Old July 21st 07, 05:31 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Shore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,732
Default Lucky/Muttley Courtship

In article ,
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
*I*
have admitted that, with Muttley, *I* am the one that needs training, as
everyone here agrees.


Apparently you need training in nearly every aspect of your
life. I hope that the next time you can't figure out why
woooooomen dash to the other side of the road when they see
you coming, you'll have a thought for the "observation" you
chose to share with Diddy.

So, thanks for the insight on the "honeymoon period".


Look, you ****ing moron, have a talk with your trainer about
it, because you obviously misunderstood what she said, and
misunderstood it completely (what a surprise!). Once the
dogs figure out that the new situation is permanent, which
takes a couple of weeks, they enter into negotiations. How
well it goes depends on the dogs' personalities and the
owner's training and management skills. How things go
during the honeymoon period can usually let someone who
knows how to read dogs know how they'll go later, but that
kind of completely disqualifies you. Lots and lots and lots
and lots of people have posted here about their dogs
suddenly having interpersonal issues after having gotten
along for a few weeks just fine.

But hey, if it weren't about you You YOU you wouldn't be
posting here in the first place given what you say you think
about the newsgroup. You loooooooove the attention. You're
just another solipsistic asshole who's using dogs to play
out his ****ed-up issues.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #5  
Old July 21st 07, 05:56 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Shelly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,103
Default Lucky/Muttley Courtship

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in
:

So, thanks for the insight on the "honeymoon period". But does it
make *you* feel better to say bad things about me? Luckily, I am
like Teflon-coated rubber, so the crap you sling doesn't stick and
bounces back at U-U-U.


You did *not* just whip out the favorite come-back of five-year-olds
the world over!

And *thanks* for throwing *your* negative
spin to this thread, which will now likely steer away from the
*dogs*.


It was not a thread until Melinda responded. And, anyway, the only
thing you seem interested in responding to is personal bullshit.
When folks have tried to engage you in reasonable, dog-related
discussion, you ignore them.

If it were not for the love I have for these dogs, and
other critters, Muttley and Lucky would be taking dirt naps,


Do you want a medal?

Now, does anyone want to talk about *dogs*?


With you? No.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
  #6  
Old July 21st 07, 06:01 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Shore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,732
Default Lucky/Muttley Courtship

In article ,
Shelly wrote:
Do you want a medal?


Yes. That's why he's accumulating dogs. They're not just
plain, ordinary, nice dogs that for which he harbors a
simple love. They're exotic breeds! And they'd be dead if
it weren't for the heroism of Paul! Of *course* he wants a
medal. There's no point in having dogs unless there are
medals involved. Either medals, or lots and lots and lots
of attention.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #7  
Old July 21st 07, 06:09 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
pfoley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,285
Default Lucky/Muttley Courtship


"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in message
...

"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
I think they will be OK with each other. My trainer said that the
critical
period will likely be 1-2 weeks, but there were no red flags during this
encounter.


1-2 weeks is the honeymoon period. The dogs don't know the
situation is permanent at first, and it takes them that long
to figure it out. Surprising things happen after that
period is over. In the meantime, I don't see any reason to
think you'd recognize a red flag if it took a crap on your
face. But that's okay - this isn't about the dogs, it's
about you You YOU!
--


I'm not interested in arguing right now. I have two *dogs* to take care

of.
Everyone who posts here talks about their problems with dogs, or what they
are teaching the dog, or what they think about dog and non-dog issues. My
post was mostly about what the *dogs* were doing, and how I was working
with *others* to assure they both will have the best lives possible. *I*
have admitted that, with Muttley, *I* am the one that needs training, as
everyone here agrees.

So, thanks for the insight on the "honeymoon period". But does it make
*you* feel better to say bad things about me? Luckily, I am like
Teflon-coated rubber, so the crap you sling doesn't stick and bounces back
at U-U-U. And *thanks* for throwing *your* negative spin to this thread,
which will now likely steer away from the *dogs*. If it were not for the
love I have for these dogs, and other critters, Muttley and Lucky would be
taking dirt naps, and I would not have had the dubious pleasure of meeting
U-U-U here.

Now, does anyone want to talk about *dogs*?

Muttley, Lucky and Paul

==============
I always find all your postings very interesting, and look forward to
reading them, so keep it up. I enjoy hearing the latest on Lucky and
Muttley. Those two dogs would not be alive today if it were not for you
being so kind hearted and rescuing them. They seem very content and happy
with you, so you must be doing something right. I would like if you posted
some more photos of the two of them together. The last photo I saw of
Muttley, he looked like he was in great shape and very handsome. I can't
believe how lucky those two dogs are to have found you.




  #8  
Old July 21st 07, 06:11 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Lynne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,609
Default Lucky/Muttley Courtship

on Sat, 21 Jul 2007 17:09:11 GMT, "pfoley" wrote:

I always find all your postings very interesting, and look forward to
reading them, so keep it up. I enjoy hearing the latest on Lucky
and Muttley. Those two dogs would not be alive today if it were not
for you being so kind hearted and rescuing them. They seem very
content and happy with you, so you must be doing something right. I
would like if you posted some more photos of the two of them together.
The last photo I saw of Muttley, he looked like he was in great shape
and very handsome. I can't believe how lucky those two dogs are to
have found you.


^^ undeniable proof that pfoley is a troll.

--
Lynne
  #9  
Old July 21st 07, 06:16 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Shelly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,103
Default Lucky/Muttley Courtship

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in
:

That may be a tricky situation, as Muttley will have free run of
the house, while I will probably need to keep Lucky tethered or
crated for a while until she gets used to her new environment


If you care even a tiny bit about these dogs, you will rethink that
plan. Whatever you do, do *not* tether Lucky where Muttley will have
access to her.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
  #10  
Old July 21st 07, 09:37 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
sighthounds & siberians
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,538
Default Lucky/Muttley Courtship

On 21 Jul 2007 12:31:45 -0400, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

In article ,
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
*I*
have admitted that, with Muttley, *I* am the one that needs training, as
everyone here agrees.


Apparently you need training in nearly every aspect of your
life. I hope that the next time you can't figure out why
woooooomen dash to the other side of the road when they see
you coming, you'll have a thought for the "observation" you
chose to share with Diddy.


Maybe I shouldn't ask, but I can't help it - - what 'observation' did
Paul share with Diddy?

Look, you ****ing moron, have a talk with your trainer about
it, because you obviously misunderstood what she said, and
misunderstood it completely (what a surprise!). Once the
dogs figure out that the new situation is permanent, which
takes a couple of weeks, they enter into negotiations. How
well it goes depends on the dogs' personalities and the
owner's training and management skills. How things go
during the honeymoon period can usually let someone who
knows how to read dogs know how they'll go later, but that
kind of completely disqualifies you. Lots and lots and lots
and lots of people have posted here about their dogs
suddenly having interpersonal issues after having gotten
along for a few weeks just fine.


Or a few months. We came home after dinner last night to find Robin
the Whippet with two holes in him, both of which required stapling.
Seems that Gene stole a food item off the counter (listen closely to
this, Paul, and then practice saying it: that part was entirely my
fault), and apparently didn't feel like sharing. We know it was Gene
because he's been observed to counter-surf, and also because Robin
will not go outside with him today. These dogs have lived together
since December without a problem, and Gene is not normally
food-aggressive at all; apparently the item in question was a
particularly valuable resource. But, of course, one doesn't always
know what will be a particularly valuable resource to a dog,
especially when it's a stolen resource.

There's no point in warning Paul about bringing not-so-Lucky home; as
Shelly noted, he's not interested in discussing dogs. He certainly
has no regard for this newsgroup or anyone on it; he's just like a kid
who wants attention so badly he doesn't care whether it's positive or
negative. But I sure hope not-so-Lucky gets Lucky and finds a home
with someone who has half a clue.

Mustang Sally


 




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