Elegy, I have heard that PETA supports breed specific legislation and
that they want to eliminate the Pit Bull. I have heard they want to
eliminate all dogs.

I have also seen the results of their legal efforts against dog fighting
(Pit Bulls) that resulted in jail time.

I have seen the results of their recent efforts to take down Vick.

I believe I said I am not 100 percent behind PETA. I do have questions.

Unrelated to PETA I just read that Tony Taylor, one of the
co-conspirators has decided not to wait to go to court. He is going to
take a plea agreement on Monday morning.

Also, that Adida's just suspended their contract with Vick.



Be Free.....Judy

"Judith Althouse" wrote in message
...
Elegy, I have heard that PETA supports breed specific legislation and
that they want to eliminate the Pit Bull. I have heard they want to
eliminate all dogs.

I have also seen the results of their legal efforts against dog fighting
(Pit Bulls) that resulted in jail time.

I have seen the results of their recent efforts to take down Vick.

I believe I said I am not 100 percent behind PETA. I do have questions.

Unrelated to PETA I just read that Tony Taylor, one of the
co-conspirators has decided not to wait to go to court. He is going to
take a plea agreement on Monday morning.

Also, that Adida's just suspended their contract with Vick.


I am not a fan of Mike Vick or pro football, but it should be remembered
that he has been charged, or indicted, of these crimes, but not yet
convicted. He has pled not guilty, and he will have his day in court. He is
probably as "not guilty" as OJ Simpson, and he probably needs to be
punished. However, he was raised by his parents and grew up in a family and
community that condones dog fighting. There are probably hundreds or
thousands of spectators without whom this "sport" would not exist. There
appears to be a large audience of people who crave this sort of "blood
sport", and it is no surprise that he is involved in a violent sport called
football. Violence is celebrated by too many, and it is this thirst for
violence that drives things like dog fighting, cock fighting, bare fisted
boxing, and bloody video games. This same mentality has elevated pro
football to its huge status and outrageous salaries and turned it into the
media circus maximus that it is today.

So, I have no problem punishing an offender like Mike Vick, but I think it
will do little to stop barbaric practices like dog fighting. People who
celebrate violence like this are probably also violent toward their spouses
and children, and drive the highways full of road rage. It would be better
if a "respected" figure such as Mike Vick would take a stand against this
"sport", and contibute toward presenting a role model to those who look up
to him, and are still young enough to be molded into something better.

I would be in favor of reducing or eliminating his jail time in return for
his cooperation in taking a stand against this brutality. He's a big man,
but he would be a much bigger man if he could do this, especially if he
would be subject to ridicule from less enlightened peers.

Hey, it could happen...

Paul

Paul, I certainly understand that Vick is innocent until proven guilty
at least according to law. Unlike you, I do enjoy NFL football I can't
wait for the season to start. I don't think it is a blood sport.

About Michael Vick, it couldn't have happened to a better guy.
Seriously, because he is/was an icon to so many young and old what great
publicity against dog fighting. I do understand that there are people
that don't know any better. I believe ignorarance of the law is no
excuse. I am certainly not saying Vick didn't know any better. He
certainly knew he wasn't suppose to be gambling, wouldn't you say?

Billy Martin is heading up his list of attorneys. The same Billy Martin
that got Jayson Williams (NBA player) off for shooting and killing his
chauffuer. He had also killed his Rottweiler on another occaision.

The Judge that Vick is appearing in front of sentenced a dog fighter to
30 months in prison several years back. It did not make the news like
this incident has because no one ever heard of the guy that was found
guilty.

I agree with you about violence. It is everywhere and all the time,
just when you think you have heard the most horrible incident something
else tops it.

The media freely admits they keep covering the story because people want
to hear about it. I honestly am amazed that it appears that Vick and
his alleged dog fighting and murdering has claimed more attention than
if he was charged with doing drugs, domestic violence, rape, or other
violent acts. I am thankful and overwhelmed that people find dog
fighting and murdering horrendous. Somehow I thought that the public
wouldn't be as concerned because it didn't involve their breed of dog.
That was sheer ignorance on my part. The public does understand that
someone who would commit the alleged crimes he is accused of is
dangerous.

About his guilt or innocense, you can believe the NFL would not keep
their #2 player off the field if they didn't have a damn good idea he
was involved.

I would love to have part of his sentence be to speak to children about
dog fighting. I can hear him now..."I'm Michael Vick". He says that all
the time. In fact he could be sentenced to lecture to his fellow
inmates, most of which have records of animal abuse of some kind.

Does anyone know if Judge Hudson will permit cameras in his court room?


Be Free.....Judy

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in
:

People who
celebrate violence like this are probably also violent toward their
spouses and children, and drive the highways full of road rage.

Not true, not that it will stop you, but just in case others were
wondering.

Paula

"Paula" wrote in message
9.11...
"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in
:

People who
celebrate violence like this are probably also violent toward their
spouses and children, and drive the highways full of road rage.

Not true, not that it will stop you, but just in case others were
wondering.


My opinion/comment is tempered by "probably". You say "not true" as if it
is an established and proven fact. Cite please?

Paul

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in
:


"Paula" wrote in message
9.11...
"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in
:

People who
celebrate violence like this are probably also violent toward their
spouses and children, and drive the highways full of road rage.

Not true, not that it will stop you, but just in case others were
wondering.


My opinion/comment is tempered by "probably". You say "not true" as if
it is an established and proven fact. Cite please?

Do your own research. I'm not getting a PhD in clinical psychology by
talking out my ass and I really don't care if you believe me or not.
Since you don't understand the differences between dog and human
aggressive dogs, I have no doubt nothing I say would convince you that
human violence is more complext than you find it. I just put that out
there in case other people wanted to know that you were talking out your
ass.

Paula

"Paula" wrote in message
9.11...
"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in
:


"Paula" wrote in message
9.11...
"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in
:

People who
celebrate violence like this are probably also violent toward their
spouses and children, and drive the highways full of road rage.

Not true, not that it will stop you, but just in case others were
wondering.


My opinion/comment is tempered by "probably". You say "not true" as if
it is an established and proven fact. Cite please?

Do your own research. I'm not getting a PhD in clinical psychology by
talking out my ass and I really don't care if you believe me or not.
Since you don't understand the differences between dog and human
aggressive dogs, I have no doubt nothing I say would convince you that
human violence is more complext than you find it. I just put that out
there in case other people wanted to know that you were talking out your
ass.


Well, it should be easy for you to post a link or other reference to some
study that supports your statement. What is your take on the apparently
increasing incidents of road rage, the gang violence, the brutality
expressed in computer games like Mortal Combat, the disdain for authority
and celebration of crime in Grand Theft Auto, and other signs of
deteriorating morals and common decency.

I will continue to express my opinions, and I need not back them up. But
when something is stated as an absolute truth, it needs to be proven. Of
course, that's just my opinion...

Paul (M&L don't have opinions)

I must retract my statement about Vick playing for the CFL. I do not
know why I even considered that. Canadians are no more fond of dog
abuse than we are. Why would they want him?

Marcel, I did not know about the ruling that X NFL players were not
welcome in the CFL. That is good news.


Be Free.....Judy

I saw a spokeperson from PETA being interviewed by Tucker Carlson. She
spoke eloquently and made the statement that she would like to see him
behind bars for many years. She mentioned not just the animals that he
is charged with killing but other animals perhaps used as bait. Ones we
will never know of. The dogs in shelters that will remain there until
the trial is over and then be euthanized.

Tucker Carlson said what I would have said. I may not agree with you on
everything, but on this one I agree.

Perhaps hatred of PETA is valid. I support what they are doing now.


Be Free.....Judy

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in
:

Well, it should be easy for you to post a link or other reference to
some study that supports your statement. What is your take on the
apparently increasing incidents of road rage, the gang violence, the
brutality expressed in computer games like Mortal Combat, the disdain
for authority and celebration of crime in Grand Theft Auto, and other
signs of deteriorating morals and common decency.

Thank you for proving my point regarding the futility of explaining
anything to you as well as your motives for posting.

I will continue to express my opinions, and I need not back them up.
But when something is stated as an absolute truth, it needs to be
proven. Of course, that's just my opinion...

That's good to hear. I look forward to reading your hundreds of revised
posts.

Paula