Emily writes....
Toy breeds have a dismal record as far as health testing goes. I'm not a
toy breed person (Labs & Gordon Setters I know best, I have labs but my
mentor also has Gordons) but I believe this is the result of two things:
Toy breeds are a miller's paradise. So it only takes a small bit to be a
"responsible" breeder in comparison. So you can still charge a mint for
them without really doing much. Secondly, litter sizes are small, so
there will always be someone willing to take that puppy.

So true. You can count the number of breeders doing all the health
testing on Yorkies on one hand, literally.

Now this is a great generalization and is not representative of any one
breeder. Just a reasoning. OTOH, Labs are quite literally a dime a
dozen. I can go down to my local Humane Society and pick out a beautiful
little black baby pretty much any day of the week. So you have to give
people a REASON to buy from you and not from the guy advertising them
for $150 in the paper.

True

Very simply--once the dog is born, coat is the only thing you can change
about the dog. You can't devote a chapter to improving bone or heads
besides through the generally accepted principles of breeding and
genetics. Coat, however, you can discuss how breeding affects coat, how
to properly groom, supplements, conditioners, brushes, combs, and how to
wrap the coat during the dog's downtime.

True


One would hope that judges also look at movement and breed type as well
as coat. There are many e-mail groups that discuss judges and what
particular judges seem to look for when judging. If one enters under a
judge known to look at the overall dog, and the judge is a respected
Yorkie judge, one can expect an honest evaluation.

I'll keep an eye out for these type of discussions.

I don't have Yorkies, but my ideal criteria in Labs would be a dog that
is physically sound and fit, meets the breed standard (though probably
would not do well in conformation in my area--what is accepted here is
generally NOT correct for the breed), is not overdone nor is "whippety"
as many field dogs are. I would want to breed temperaments that are very
similar to a dog I know (Tux, on my website). Eager workers, friendly
and sweet with people, active and outgoing, capable of taking a
correction without melting down but not requiring harsh corrections.
It's complicated--but I already have a dog that has given me that
picture. Health is also very important to me--I want a dog that is CERF
normal (for everything but possibly that which Optigen can now test
for), with acceptable hips under the PennHip method though in our breed
OFA is generally the only method suggested. Elbows normal, cardiac
cleared. Allergies are also an important issue to me and should thyroid
ever pop up, that as well. Working ability is important but most of
that, IMO, falls under temperament as you can teach a dog to retrieve
even if it's not a born retriever.

Thanks Emily, great information to think about.





"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of
comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and
controversy." Martin Luther King Jr. (1929 - 1968)

Dianne writes....

I like your thinking - because you have noticed what I have - not much
attention given to the WHOLE dog.

Absolutely. It seems that some toy breeds are treated as if they
aren't "real" dogs and are more of a nuisance in the dog world. I
really feel that some toy breeds need to change their image away from
the "fluff" dog. Doing away with those elaborate coats would be a
start, I think.


Legg-Calve-Perthes. And the pedigree needs to be examained for serious
jaw structure/ dentition anomolies.

Oh, I forgot about Legg-Perthes, great suggestion.

That's a breed culture kind of thing. There *might* be a stronger
attraction in the breed for folks who view the dog more as a toy or
accessory than as a little dog - and that *might* contribnute to the
breed culture. And breed culture tends to perpetuate itslelf. It is
difficult for the newcomer to take a stance of viewing the whole dog.
I've seen other breeders, however, do this in other breeds - both being
active in the breed and firmly doing what they believe is best for the
overall dog.

I'd love to see a Yorkie breeder do this. What about European Yorkie
breeders? I'll have to do some more research on that.


That would be earthdog tests. THe root stock of the Yorkshire Terriers
were certainly ratters but for well over 100 years their breeding has
been primarily focussed on their appearance.

True

I like to see a dog with a facial structure where the tongue and teeth
fit nicely into the jaw. Where the skull structure is such that the eyse
are not forward of the skull so that the skull can protect it (badly
worded I hope you know what I mean).

No, you worded it quite well and understandable.

In a Yorkie the trot should be effortless but a little bounce is OK, I
think, they aren't supposed to be a trotting dog.

I know mine glide pretty effortlessly but you do see their topline
bounce.

I really like to see a Yorkie thatis well structured for jumping -
maybe it isn't what they were bred to do but in my opinion a properly
structured Yorkie can jump well.

Agreed, though I don't like to see my dogs jump over anything higher
than about 8" due to the high incidence of fractures. That's another
reason I hate those teeny tiny yorkies with spaghetti thin bones... just
not healthy and hardy enough for me.

While philosophically I agree that earthdog testing is appropriate for
any terrier I wouldn't necessarily look to that as a good test for the
Yorkshire Terrier. People looking for this breed are rarely looking for
a scrappy terrier personality. And high prey drive in dogs intended
primarily as family pets can be a problem.

Alot of yorkies get to rescue because of their constant digging,
barking at every thing that moves, aggression to other animals etc.
Personally, I love that scrappy spirit in a dog.

What I'd like to see in the Yorkshire Terrier is a pert and perky
attitude, a moderate activity level and struture sound enough to be
competent in something like agility, although not necessarily the top
performers. IOW I wouldn't want to see something like longer leg
developed in order to perform in that venue, I just want to see that the
existing structure is more than minimally functional.

There are a few Yorkies doing great in agility right now. Do they
adjust the heights for short dogs? If I wasn't disabled, I'd love to
try agility with my pup.

And if not agilty maybe something like freestyle or obedience, something
tha tends to develop *some* willingness to work *with* peple. Again I'm
not necssarily talking about subverting the terrier streak and turning
the dogs into miniature golden retrievers, but doing things that
demonstrate the ability to move fluidly and comfortably and be compliant
*wthout* losing spunk.

I'm thinking that maybe a CGC minimally? Personally, I think Yorkies
could be outstanding therapy dogs. I'm a former nurse and the tactile
sensation of the coat, the small size to lay in a lap and assist with
gross motor skills by grooming the dogs would, IMO, be a plus in
physical therapy. I can see many uses in socialization therapies too.

Thanks Dianne, great suggestions!





"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of
comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and
controversy." Martin Luther King Jr. (1929 - 1968)

Christy writes...

I would take a healthy pup with good temperament from health tested
parents over a puppy with a long, luxurious coat, crappy temperament and
possible health issues from non-tested (or tested and failed...)
parents.

Amen!

What are the right reasons? Ideally, someone doing it "all" would have
conformationally correct dogs with correct coats, good correct
temperaments and health tested lines, not choosing one aspect in
particular to focus on at the detriment of the others. But if they have
to slack off somewhere, let it not be health.

I agree, you have to have a healthy, agreeable dog first and foremost,
or you don't have anything except heartbreak.

Thanks Christy.





"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of
comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and
controversy." Martin Luther King Jr. (1929 - 1968)

On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 09:28:58 -0500 Lori whittled these words:

Alot of yorkies get to rescue because of their constant digging,
barking at every thing that moves, aggression to other animals etc.

I know. People have a hard enough time getting it through their heads what
a terrier is like with a JRT - which actually looks the part. That long
fancy coat just makes it harder for people to understand.


Personally, I love that scrappy spirit in a dog.

Well so do I.

What I'd like to see in the Yorkshire Terrier is a pert and perky
attitude, a moderate activity level and struture sound enough to be
competent in something like agility, although not necessarily the top
performers. IOW I wouldn't want to see something like longer leg
developed in order to perform in that venue, I just want to see that the
existing structure is more than minimally functional.

There are a few Yorkies doing great in agility right now. Do they
adjust the heights for short dogs? If I wasn't disabled, I'd love to
try agility with my pup.

The jump height is based on height at withers, not leg length.

There are disabled handlers in agility. There is a discussion group
devoted to handlers in wheelchairs or using other mobility tools. Blind
handlers are more uncommon, but not unheard of. The trick is to get the
dog willing to work away from you.

I'm thinking that maybe a CGC minimally? Personally, I think Yorkies
could be outstanding therapy dogs. I'm a former nurse and the tactile
sensation of the coat, the small size to lay in a lap and assist with
gross motor skills by grooming the dogs would, IMO, be a plus in
physical therapy. I can see many uses in socialization therapies too.

I think the *inability* to get a CGC should definetly be a warning sign,
but the ability to get one just doesn't count for much. Still it is
something. Therapy dog work is much more revealing and much more
consistent with testing the actual qualities people are looking for in a
pet.

--
Diane Blackman
http://dog-play.com/
http://dogplay.com/Shop/

Alot of yorkies get to rescue because of their constant digging,
barking at every thing that moves, aggression to other animals etc.


I know. People have a hard enough time getting it through their heads
what a terrier is like with a JRT - which actually looks the part.
That long fancy coat just makes it harder for people to understand.


Personally, I love that scrappy spirit in a dog.
Well so do I.

I knew I liked you :-)


What I'd like to see in the Yorkshire Terrier is a pert and perky
attitude, a moderate activity level and struture sound enough to be
competent in something like agility, although not necessarily the top
performers. IOW I wouldn't want to see something like longer leg
developed in order to perform in that venue, I just want to see that
the existing structure is more than minimally functional.


There are a few Yorkies doing great in agility right now. Do they
adjust the heights for short dogs? If I wasn't disabled, I'd love to
try agility with my pup.


The jump height is based on height at withers, not leg length.
There are disabled handlers in agility. There is a discussion group
devoted to handlers in wheelchairs or using other mobility tools.
Blind handlers are more uncommon, but not unheard of. The trick is to
get the dog willing to work away from you.

My disability is a pain disorder which keeps me homebound 90% of the
time. That's another reason I love the Yorkie as a companion. Small
enough to get adequate exercise in a home and both of mine tend to be
able to perceive high pain episodes and are quiet and calm around me at
that time. I'd be a basket case without my dogs to keep me sane living
with chronic pain.

I'm thinking that maybe a CGC minimally? Personally, I think Yorkies
could be outstanding therapy dogs. I'm a former nurse and the tactile
sensation of the coat, the small size to lay in a lap and assist with
gross motor skills by grooming the dogs would, IMO, be a plus in
physical therapy. =A0 I can see many uses in socialization therapies
too.


I think the *inability* to get a CGC should definetly be a warning
sign, but the ability to get one just doesn't count for much. Still it
is something. Therapy dog work is much more revealing and much more
consistent with testing the actual qualities people are looking for in
a pet.

Agreed. My very favorite quality in a pet is a dog that thinks. You
can see that little brain working overtime to figure out a way to get
what they want. I like to set up obstacles for my dogs to work to
obtain a treat, toy etc. I'm constantly amazed at their abilities.
With the yorkie small size, a home can be set up as a playground of
challenges for them.

Thanks Diane, your posts are always informative!





"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of
comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and
controversy." Martin Luther King Jr. (1929 - 1968)