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Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 7th 07, 03:32 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 326
Default Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...

The last time I came here and asked a question (which was actually the
first time I came here and asked a question) I felt like I spent more
time defending myself from people who automatically assumed the worst of
me and heaped undeserved criticism on me rather than try to help me find
an answer, and I felt pretty badly burned.

I have another question, and although I have tried to search around the
web some, I haven't found a nonjudgmental, supportive, open-minded,
friendly place to ask a question that isn't (a) tied to answers based
solely on one specific dog training method and/or (b) tied to one entity
who is trying to develop a following and/or (c) something on that same
line -- someone with an ulterior motive of a self-serving nature. (That
does not include this newsgroup, but please see above for why I don't
feel comfortable sticking my hand in the fire here again quite yet if at
all ever.)

I really am not up to the challenge of spending 20% of my energy
answering questions and getting information that will help with my
question and 80% trying to defend myself and clarify people's
misperceptions piled up on top of misperceptions and the resulting
criticisms that really don't apply to my situation, but I really need
someplace where I can ask questions where there is someone who wants to
help me find an answer.

So where do I look to find such a place? I know for guinea pigs, on top
of the standard assortment of places with the same type of flavor I
mentioned above for dogs but that that are GP-focused instead, there are
a good number of great, helpful, supportive message areas online on top
of local clubs, etc. I just haven't found any for dogs yet. Do they
exist? Where do I look for them?

I most sincerely am NOT trying to offend anybody here. I am not trying
to blame what happened last time on anybody and acknowledge that it
could be my inadequacies of trying to communicate kinesthetic things in
a text medium as much as anything else why it was such a nasty mess last
time. But I really, REALLY need to find somewhere, whether online or in
real life, where I can find answers to questions that doesn't involve
swallowing one person's dog training theory wholesale and buying
(philosophically and/or financially) into it 200%, giving someone fodder
to feed their own ego or develop a following or lend credibility to
their attempts to become more well known, or something else equally
irrelevant to the issue of getting a variety of different ideas to pick
from to find what works for you and your dog, so obviously I am missing
something. Surely there has to be someplace in the world that offers
eclectic help to dog owners like there are for guinea pig owners, isn't
there?

TIA for any suggestions people can make of where to go to ask for help.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.
  #2  
Old November 7th 07, 03:37 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Janet Boss
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,368
Default Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...

In article ,
Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply
wrote:


TIA for any suggestions people can make of where to go to ask for help.


Ok, instead of just asking the damn question, you told everyone here why
we're useless and want us to recommend someplace to your liking? Why
would you trust the advice of a group you obviously don't like?

I vaguely remember that you were here recently and don't recollect what
your question was then. Why not give your current question a shot? No
matter where you go, there will be varying opinions and a handful of
whackos thrown in for good measure.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
  #3  
Old November 7th 07, 03:46 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
diddy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,108
Default Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply spoke these
words of wisdom in :

The last time I came here and asked a question (which was actually the
first time I came here and asked a question) I felt like I spent more
time defending myself from people who automatically assumed the worst of
me and heaped undeserved criticism on me rather than try to help me find
an answer, and I felt pretty badly burned.

I have no idea where to send you. Did you ever get that doggie housebroken?
Did tethering work?
  #4  
Old November 7th 07, 04:04 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Julia Altshuler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,121
Default Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply wrote:

So where do I look to find such a place? I know for guinea pigs, on top
of the standard assortment of places with the same type of flavor I
mentioned above for dogs but that that are GP-focused instead, there are
a good number of great, helpful, supportive message areas online on top
of local clubs, etc. I just haven't found any for dogs yet. Do they
exist? Where do I look for them?



For your dog training troubles, I suggest asking your veterinarian,
either for training advice or a referral to a trainer.
I wish there was a similarly easy place to tell you to go for a thicker
skin.
Question askers on this group do get a lot of potshots taken at them.
They also get excellent answers from people who know a lot about dogs
and who don't have to volunteer their time and expertise.


--Lia

  #5  
Old November 7th 07, 04:22 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Shore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,732
Default Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...

In article ,
Julia Altshuler wrote:
For your dog training troubles, I suggest asking your veterinarian,


Look - Lia's making a funny.

Her "troubles" the last time around include relying on her
vet for dog training advice.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #6  
Old November 7th 07, 04:24 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Julia Altshuler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,121
Default Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...

Melinda Shore wrote:

Look - Lia's making a funny.

Her "troubles" the last time around include relying on her
vet for dog training advice.



I wish. Just poor memory.
--Lia

  #7  
Old November 7th 07, 05:17 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Suja
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,483
Default Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...


"Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply" wrote in
message:

So where do I look to find such a place?


It sounds to me like what you are looking for is a moderated forum. You
should be able to find those on Yahoo! groups. Can't recommend anything
specifically because I don't really participate much in those, but if you go
to groups.yahoo.com and type in something like 'Dog Training', you'll get a
long list. Just be aware that a lot of them are geared towards a specific
type of training or training philosophy.

Suja


  #8  
Old November 7th 07, 05:25 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
tiny dancer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,069
Default Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...


"Suja" wrote in message
...

"Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply" wrote

in
message:

So where do I look to find such a place?


It sounds to me like what you are looking for is a moderated forum. You
should be able to find those on Yahoo! groups. Can't recommend anything
specifically because I don't really participate much in those, but if you

go
to groups.yahoo.com and type in something like 'Dog Training', you'll get

a
long list. Just be aware that a lot of them are geared towards a specific
type of training or training philosophy.

Suja



My only suggestion would be you type in *dogs* rather than dog training and
you might find groups less geared towards specific training/philosophy and
more geared towards general dog ownership issues, questions, discussions,
etc.

td






  #9  
Old November 7th 07, 08:31 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Paul E. Schoen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,654
Default Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...


"Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply" wrote
in message ...
The last time I came here and asked a question (which was actually the
first time I came here and asked a question) I felt like I spent more
time defending myself from people who automatically assumed the worst of
me and heaped undeserved criticism on me rather than try to help me find
an answer, and I felt pretty badly burned.

I have another question, and although I have tried to search around the
web some, I haven't found a nonjudgmental, supportive, open-minded,
friendly place to ask a question that isn't (a) tied to answers based
solely on one specific dog training method and/or (b) tied to one entity
who is trying to develop a following and/or (c) something on that same
line -- someone with an ulterior motive of a self-serving nature. (That
does not include this newsgroup, but please see above for why I don't
feel comfortable sticking my hand in the fire here again quite yet if at
all ever.)

I really am not up to the challenge of spending 20% of my energy
answering questions and getting information that will help with my
question and 80% trying to defend myself and clarify people's
misperceptions piled up on top of misperceptions and the resulting
criticisms that really don't apply to my situation, but I really need
someplace where I can ask questions where there is someone who wants to
help me find an answer.

So where do I look to find such a place? I know for guinea pigs, on top
of the standard assortment of places with the same type of flavor I
mentioned above for dogs but that that are GP-focused instead, there are
a good number of great, helpful, supportive message areas online on top
of local clubs, etc. I just haven't found any for dogs yet. Do they
exist? Where do I look for them?

I most sincerely am NOT trying to offend anybody here. I am not trying
to blame what happened last time on anybody and acknowledge that it could
be my inadequacies of trying to communicate kinesthetic things in a text
medium as much as anything else why it was such a nasty mess last time.
But I really, REALLY need to find somewhere, whether online or in real
life, where I can find answers to questions that doesn't involve
swallowing one person's dog training theory wholesale and buying
(philosophically and/or financially) into it 200%, giving someone fodder
to feed their own ego or develop a following or lend credibility to their
attempts to become more well known, or something else equally irrelevant
to the issue of getting a variety of different ideas to pick from to find
what works for you and your dog, so obviously I am missing something.
Surely there has to be someplace in the world that offers eclectic help
to dog owners like there are for guinea pig owners, isn't there?

TIA for any suggestions people can make of where to go to ask for help.


This is really as good a place as any to get help. There are quite a few
people here who are not as judgmental and condescending as the loudest of
the regulars. The problem is that a few very opinionated and often
mean-spirited people use the relative anonymity and lack of moderation the
open usenet offers, to bolster their self-esteem an intimidate newbies. If
you make nice and are appropriately meek and apologetic, you might
eventually be accepted by these regulars, but you must follow a fairly
rigid way of thinking.

Maybe this is a trait of dog trainers, especially those of the traditional
school, who use forceful methods and expectations of high levels of
obedience, and they extend their ways on people as well. There is also the
problem of communication skills, which is partly in the way one writes
their observations or opinions, and also on the way others read what is
presented, often with a very negative bias and a desire to find fault with
the least smidgen of something that contradicts their rigid concept of how
things should be. Once you have inflamed the wrath of these unhappy and
humorless people, they will forever seek to oppose your every utterance,
and they will distort the truth and hang onto false misconceptions to
perpetuate their ill will, and satisfy their need to feel superior by
demeaning others.

This is a free public forum. I even posted that it was "my" forum to post
accounts of my experiences and opinions without regard to the consequences
of antagonistic and abusive responses from others. And it is just as much
"your" forum to do likewise. It does not bother me that some folks her have
me killfiled. I don't need their advice. There are some people here who
feel intimidated and will not post what they really feel, but will freely
discuss unpopular topics by private email.

I actually enjoy a good argument. The problem is that many people are
narrowminded and will refuse to discuss a controversial opinion or action
in a rational, logical, or even civil manner. So discussions in this
newsgroup often become cliquish discourses among the "chosen few" who seem
to hold power, with ostracism foisted upon those who dare stray too far
from the fold. This happens in many newsgroups, and they become moderated,
in a way, by a sort of groupspeak that is imposed by a smallish cadre of
very vocal and prolific regulars who seem to have lots of time on their
hands to engage in lengthy on-line exchanges. I prefer to read several
newsgroups occasionally, and usually post relatively long and detailed OPs
or responses, and then return hours or days later to see what has
transpired, and perhaps engage in further discussion.

You might try the AOL Canine Behavior Board. It is perhaps a notch
friendlier than this newsgroup, but it also has its own regulars, some of
whom are here as well. It has a different format (which I think sucks), but
there is often good advice to be shared. You can access it at:

http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=162728&func=3&channel=Pets

I hadn't visited there for a while. I'm MuttleyMan21030. There's a lot more
silliness there, and way off-topic rants and chats, but it's fun sometimes.

There are also some breed-specific groups that are good for helpful
discussions, like:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/NASRNownersupport/

and general groups like:

http://www.adoa.org/

and

http://www.epetwork.com/ (Look for my pets Lucky and Muttley)

So, stick around, and don't be afraid to say what you want to say. Don't
let anyone take away your freedom of expression. As long as you are civil
and not trying to sell some kind of crap, no reasonable person will want to
rip your head off. Those that do, really have mental problems, or seriously
bad attitudes, and you should just ignore them. There is really no need to
killfile anyone, even Jerry, because it is sometimes amusing (and even
informative) to read posts from those you don't especially like, and it can
be confusing to see replies to posts that are hidden from you. If your
newsreader just lists the headers, you can just ignore the ones you don't
want to read, especially most of the long-winded abusive rants by the PW.

Enjoy life, love your dog(s), and be free!

Paul and Muttley




  #10  
Old November 7th 07, 09:31 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 326
Default Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...

Janet Boss wrote:
Ok, instead of just asking the damn question, you told everyone here why
we're useless and want us to recommend someplace to your liking? Why
would you trust the advice of a group you obviously don't like?


I guess this just reinforces my point that no matter what I say,
somebody will take it wrong and ding me for it. *discouraged sigh* I
specifically tried not to lay blame to anybody, but I was just saying
that I have a hard time processing the feedback given here on this
subject and that I was looking for someplace with this one particular
type of environment that I find easier to process.

It's like my experience with veterinarians -- there are vets in my area
who are -- well, I don't know what kind of label I would hang on them,
but they look at you as if you don't deserve to have a pet if you are
not willing to drop $1000-3000 right off the cuff to diagnose your pet's
problem, and while I am sure they are probably reasonably competent
vets, I sure prefer my vet, who provides high road, middle road, and low
road treatment plans and gives you the chance to choose which road you
prefer to take. And if I was looking for a vet and wanting one who
provided various treatment plans for me, the pet owner, to choose from
instead of going high-tech and high-cost as the only valid one, am I
saying that the high-tech, high-cost vet is useless? No, only that
their advice comes in a form that I am unable to use because it reflects
a perspective that does not apply to me.

I have been on newsgroups for almost 15 years and know that various
newsgroups come with varying signal-to-noise ratios. I also know that
Usenet is not going to be around forever and that many people are
migrating to web-based message areas these days. I just don't know how
or where to find the group that operates on the wavelength that runs
more in tune with my own and was hoping that someone here might know.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.
 




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