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#1
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Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...
The last time I came here and asked a question (which was actually the
first time I came here and asked a question) I felt like I spent more time defending myself from people who automatically assumed the worst of me and heaped undeserved criticism on me rather than try to help me find an answer, and I felt pretty badly burned. I have another question, and although I have tried to search around the web some, I haven't found a nonjudgmental, supportive, open-minded, friendly place to ask a question that isn't (a) tied to answers based solely on one specific dog training method and/or (b) tied to one entity who is trying to develop a following and/or (c) something on that same line -- someone with an ulterior motive of a self-serving nature. (That does not include this newsgroup, but please see above for why I don't feel comfortable sticking my hand in the fire here again quite yet if at all ever.) I really am not up to the challenge of spending 20% of my energy answering questions and getting information that will help with my question and 80% trying to defend myself and clarify people's misperceptions piled up on top of misperceptions and the resulting criticisms that really don't apply to my situation, but I really need someplace where I can ask questions where there is someone who wants to help me find an answer. So where do I look to find such a place? I know for guinea pigs, on top of the standard assortment of places with the same type of flavor I mentioned above for dogs but that that are GP-focused instead, there are a good number of great, helpful, supportive message areas online on top of local clubs, etc. I just haven't found any for dogs yet. Do they exist? Where do I look for them? I most sincerely am NOT trying to offend anybody here. I am not trying to blame what happened last time on anybody and acknowledge that it could be my inadequacies of trying to communicate kinesthetic things in a text medium as much as anything else why it was such a nasty mess last time. But I really, REALLY need to find somewhere, whether online or in real life, where I can find answers to questions that doesn't involve swallowing one person's dog training theory wholesale and buying (philosophically and/or financially) into it 200%, giving someone fodder to feed their own ego or develop a following or lend credibility to their attempts to become more well known, or something else equally irrelevant to the issue of getting a variety of different ideas to pick from to find what works for you and your dog, so obviously I am missing something. Surely there has to be someplace in the world that offers eclectic help to dog owners like there are for guinea pig owners, isn't there? TIA for any suggestions people can make of where to go to ask for help. -- Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your work with excellence. |
#2
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Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...
In article ,
Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply wrote: TIA for any suggestions people can make of where to go to ask for help. Ok, instead of just asking the damn question, you told everyone here why we're useless and want us to recommend someplace to your liking? Why would you trust the advice of a group you obviously don't like? I vaguely remember that you were here recently and don't recollect what your question was then. Why not give your current question a shot? No matter where you go, there will be varying opinions and a handful of whackos thrown in for good measure. -- Janet Boss www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com |
#3
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Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...
Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply spoke these
words of wisdom in : The last time I came here and asked a question (which was actually the first time I came here and asked a question) I felt like I spent more time defending myself from people who automatically assumed the worst of me and heaped undeserved criticism on me rather than try to help me find an answer, and I felt pretty badly burned. I have no idea where to send you. Did you ever get that doggie housebroken? Did tethering work? |
#4
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Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...
Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply wrote:
So where do I look to find such a place? I know for guinea pigs, on top of the standard assortment of places with the same type of flavor I mentioned above for dogs but that that are GP-focused instead, there are a good number of great, helpful, supportive message areas online on top of local clubs, etc. I just haven't found any for dogs yet. Do they exist? Where do I look for them? For your dog training troubles, I suggest asking your veterinarian, either for training advice or a referral to a trainer. I wish there was a similarly easy place to tell you to go for a thicker skin. Question askers on this group do get a lot of potshots taken at them. They also get excellent answers from people who know a lot about dogs and who don't have to volunteer their time and expertise. --Lia |
#5
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Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...
In article ,
Julia Altshuler wrote: For your dog training troubles, I suggest asking your veterinarian, Look - Lia's making a funny. Her "troubles" the last time around include relying on her vet for dog training advice. -- Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community |
#6
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Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...
Melinda Shore wrote:
Look - Lia's making a funny. Her "troubles" the last time around include relying on her vet for dog training advice. I wish. Just poor memory. --Lia |
#7
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Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...
"Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply" wrote in message: So where do I look to find such a place? It sounds to me like what you are looking for is a moderated forum. You should be able to find those on Yahoo! groups. Can't recommend anything specifically because I don't really participate much in those, but if you go to groups.yahoo.com and type in something like 'Dog Training', you'll get a long list. Just be aware that a lot of them are geared towards a specific type of training or training philosophy. Suja |
#8
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Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...
"Suja" wrote in message ... "Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply" wrote in message: So where do I look to find such a place? It sounds to me like what you are looking for is a moderated forum. You should be able to find those on Yahoo! groups. Can't recommend anything specifically because I don't really participate much in those, but if you go to groups.yahoo.com and type in something like 'Dog Training', you'll get a long list. Just be aware that a lot of them are geared towards a specific type of training or training philosophy. Suja My only suggestion would be you type in *dogs* rather than dog training and you might find groups less geared towards specific training/philosophy and more geared towards general dog ownership issues, questions, discussions, etc. td |
#9
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Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...
"Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply" wrote in message ... The last time I came here and asked a question (which was actually the first time I came here and asked a question) I felt like I spent more time defending myself from people who automatically assumed the worst of me and heaped undeserved criticism on me rather than try to help me find an answer, and I felt pretty badly burned. I have another question, and although I have tried to search around the web some, I haven't found a nonjudgmental, supportive, open-minded, friendly place to ask a question that isn't (a) tied to answers based solely on one specific dog training method and/or (b) tied to one entity who is trying to develop a following and/or (c) something on that same line -- someone with an ulterior motive of a self-serving nature. (That does not include this newsgroup, but please see above for why I don't feel comfortable sticking my hand in the fire here again quite yet if at all ever.) I really am not up to the challenge of spending 20% of my energy answering questions and getting information that will help with my question and 80% trying to defend myself and clarify people's misperceptions piled up on top of misperceptions and the resulting criticisms that really don't apply to my situation, but I really need someplace where I can ask questions where there is someone who wants to help me find an answer. So where do I look to find such a place? I know for guinea pigs, on top of the standard assortment of places with the same type of flavor I mentioned above for dogs but that that are GP-focused instead, there are a good number of great, helpful, supportive message areas online on top of local clubs, etc. I just haven't found any for dogs yet. Do they exist? Where do I look for them? I most sincerely am NOT trying to offend anybody here. I am not trying to blame what happened last time on anybody and acknowledge that it could be my inadequacies of trying to communicate kinesthetic things in a text medium as much as anything else why it was such a nasty mess last time. But I really, REALLY need to find somewhere, whether online or in real life, where I can find answers to questions that doesn't involve swallowing one person's dog training theory wholesale and buying (philosophically and/or financially) into it 200%, giving someone fodder to feed their own ego or develop a following or lend credibility to their attempts to become more well known, or something else equally irrelevant to the issue of getting a variety of different ideas to pick from to find what works for you and your dog, so obviously I am missing something. Surely there has to be someplace in the world that offers eclectic help to dog owners like there are for guinea pig owners, isn't there? TIA for any suggestions people can make of where to go to ask for help. This is really as good a place as any to get help. There are quite a few people here who are not as judgmental and condescending as the loudest of the regulars. The problem is that a few very opinionated and often mean-spirited people use the relative anonymity and lack of moderation the open usenet offers, to bolster their self-esteem an intimidate newbies. If you make nice and are appropriately meek and apologetic, you might eventually be accepted by these regulars, but you must follow a fairly rigid way of thinking. Maybe this is a trait of dog trainers, especially those of the traditional school, who use forceful methods and expectations of high levels of obedience, and they extend their ways on people as well. There is also the problem of communication skills, which is partly in the way one writes their observations or opinions, and also on the way others read what is presented, often with a very negative bias and a desire to find fault with the least smidgen of something that contradicts their rigid concept of how things should be. Once you have inflamed the wrath of these unhappy and humorless people, they will forever seek to oppose your every utterance, and they will distort the truth and hang onto false misconceptions to perpetuate their ill will, and satisfy their need to feel superior by demeaning others. This is a free public forum. I even posted that it was "my" forum to post accounts of my experiences and opinions without regard to the consequences of antagonistic and abusive responses from others. And it is just as much "your" forum to do likewise. It does not bother me that some folks her have me killfiled. I don't need their advice. There are some people here who feel intimidated and will not post what they really feel, but will freely discuss unpopular topics by private email. I actually enjoy a good argument. The problem is that many people are narrowminded and will refuse to discuss a controversial opinion or action in a rational, logical, or even civil manner. So discussions in this newsgroup often become cliquish discourses among the "chosen few" who seem to hold power, with ostracism foisted upon those who dare stray too far from the fold. This happens in many newsgroups, and they become moderated, in a way, by a sort of groupspeak that is imposed by a smallish cadre of very vocal and prolific regulars who seem to have lots of time on their hands to engage in lengthy on-line exchanges. I prefer to read several newsgroups occasionally, and usually post relatively long and detailed OPs or responses, and then return hours or days later to see what has transpired, and perhaps engage in further discussion. You might try the AOL Canine Behavior Board. It is perhaps a notch friendlier than this newsgroup, but it also has its own regulars, some of whom are here as well. It has a different format (which I think sucks), but there is often good advice to be shared. You can access it at: http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=162728&func=3&channel=Pets I hadn't visited there for a while. I'm MuttleyMan21030. There's a lot more silliness there, and way off-topic rants and chats, but it's fun sometimes. There are also some breed-specific groups that are good for helpful discussions, like: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/NASRNownersupport/ and general groups like: http://www.adoa.org/ and http://www.epetwork.com/ (Look for my pets Lucky and Muttley) So, stick around, and don't be afraid to say what you want to say. Don't let anyone take away your freedom of expression. As long as you are civil and not trying to sell some kind of crap, no reasonable person will want to rip your head off. Those that do, really have mental problems, or seriously bad attitudes, and you should just ignore them. There is really no need to killfile anyone, even Jerry, because it is sometimes amusing (and even informative) to read posts from those you don't especially like, and it can be confusing to see replies to posts that are hidden from you. If your newsreader just lists the headers, you can just ignore the ones you don't want to read, especially most of the long-winded abusive rants by the PW. Enjoy life, love your dog(s), and be free! Paul and Muttley |
#10
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Hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but here goes...
Janet Boss wrote:
Ok, instead of just asking the damn question, you told everyone here why we're useless and want us to recommend someplace to your liking? Why would you trust the advice of a group you obviously don't like? I guess this just reinforces my point that no matter what I say, somebody will take it wrong and ding me for it. *discouraged sigh* I specifically tried not to lay blame to anybody, but I was just saying that I have a hard time processing the feedback given here on this subject and that I was looking for someplace with this one particular type of environment that I find easier to process. It's like my experience with veterinarians -- there are vets in my area who are -- well, I don't know what kind of label I would hang on them, but they look at you as if you don't deserve to have a pet if you are not willing to drop $1000-3000 right off the cuff to diagnose your pet's problem, and while I am sure they are probably reasonably competent vets, I sure prefer my vet, who provides high road, middle road, and low road treatment plans and gives you the chance to choose which road you prefer to take. And if I was looking for a vet and wanting one who provided various treatment plans for me, the pet owner, to choose from instead of going high-tech and high-cost as the only valid one, am I saying that the high-tech, high-cost vet is useless? No, only that their advice comes in a form that I am unable to use because it reflects a perspective that does not apply to me. I have been on newsgroups for almost 15 years and know that various newsgroups come with varying signal-to-noise ratios. I also know that Usenet is not going to be around forever and that many people are migrating to web-based message areas these days. I just don't know how or where to find the group that operates on the wavelength that runs more in tune with my own and was hoping that someone here might know. -- Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your work with excellence. |
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