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Help with my dog - Please!!



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 15th 07, 10:33 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
JW
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Posts: 4
Default Help with my dog - Please!!

Maisy is a five month old Papa Tzu. In attempting to housetrain her,
I have consistently run into her continuing to mess in the house.
Yesterday, she began to go further backwards in her training by
messing in her crate, which she has not done in over three months.



I have attempted to tie her leash to my body so she can not get away
and hide, to paper / pad train her in a playpen, and keeping her gated
in the bathroom so it is only linoleum. I am at my wits end and I
don't know what to do from here.



Any ideas?

  #2  
Old November 16th 07, 12:51 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Beth In Alaska
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Posts: 590
Default Help with my dog - Please!!


"JW" wrote in message
...
Maisy is a five month old Papa Tzu. In attempting to housetrain her,
I have consistently run into her continuing to mess in the house.
Yesterday, she began to go further backwards in her training by
messing in her crate, which she has not done in over three months.



I have attempted to tie her leash to my body so she can not get away
and hide, to paper / pad train her in a playpen, and keeping her gated
in the bathroom so it is only linoleum. I am at my wits end and I
don't know what to do from here.



Keeping her in the bathroom will just teach her to go in the bathroom.
I'm curious what about tethering her to you didn't work? Did she not give
off signs for you to pick up that she was going to go?


  #3  
Old November 16th 07, 04:31 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Rocky[_2_]
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Posts: 2,421
Default Help with my dog - Please!!

JW said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

I have attempted to tie her leash to my body so she can not
get away and hide, to paper / pad train her in a playpen,
and keeping her gated in the bathroom so it is only
linoleum.


The ingredient you're missing is consistency. Take her outside
at least every hour.

I assume that your dog is a Papillon and Shi Tzu cross. So,
small dog, small bladder - expect lots of small pees on the
floor unless you take her outside and make a big deal of it.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
  #4  
Old November 16th 07, 05:53 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
C J Campbell
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Posts: 46
Default Help with my dog - Please!!

On 2007-11-15 13:33:03 -0800, JW said:

Maisy is a five month old Papa Tzu. In attempting to housetrain her,
I have consistently run into her continuing to mess in the house.
Yesterday, she began to go further backwards in her training by
messing in her crate, which she has not done in over three months.



I have attempted to tie her leash to my body so she can not get away
and hide, to paper / pad train her in a playpen, and keeping her gated
in the bathroom so it is only linoleum. I am at my wits end and I
don't know what to do from here.



Any ideas?


Papers, pads, and gating her in the bathroom only teach her that it is
okay to go in the house, as already pointed out.

There are specific times when a dog is programed to go: after eating,
after drinking, when waking up, and after play. Take her outside by the
shortest route possible to the proper spot at each of these times.
Praise her profusely and give her a treat when she goes in the
designated spot on the proper medium (usually grass). Let her know she
is *such* a good doggie and that you are so proud of her. A good
strategy is that whenever you take her outside for a potty break, teach
her to speak before you open the door. Give her a treat when she speaks
at the door to be let out, then take her out. After a few days or weeks
of this, the day will come when she will just go to the door and speak.
*Never* ignore that at your peril.

When she goes in the house, say nothing. Just clean it up. Punishing
her will confuse her and she might decide to avenge herself by doing it
again, possibly on the bed. Saying nothing is already a lot of
punishment for a dog. What? I went potty? No praise? No treat? Boy,
that was a bad idea. He sure gets excited when I use the tree, though.
Next time I'll wait.

You will have to get the scent of her mistakes out completely. Dogs
remember where to go potty because they smell old potty there. Some
owners will take a small quantity of their own urine and dump it at the
spot where they want the dog to go. The dog gets the message
immediately. There are several products that remove the scent of urine
and feces completely. You want to use these everywhere in the house
that the dog might have gone.

Dogs evolved as den animals, which is why they can be housebroken. Wild
den animals are taught early on by their mothers that fouling the den
is a bad idea. Instead, the mothers show their pups where to go outside
the den. All you have to do is as mother wild dogs would do: teach your
dog that the house (and all other buildings) are dens which are not to
be fouled. For a little dog that is one huge den and it will be harder
to get it to understand, but it can eventually be done with patience
and absolute consistency to a regular schedule. Mother dogs do punish
offenders with a small nip, but it is not really punishment so much as
getting the pup's attention and encouraging him to move out the door of
the den. In your case, the leash substitutes for nipping and is much
more sanitary than dog hairs in your mouth!

If consistent potty breaks and a rigid schedule do not solve the
problem, the dog may have a medical problem requiring the attention of
a veterinarian. Any number of medical issues can cause a dog to
defecate or urinate in the house no matter how much the dog does not
want to do that.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

  #5  
Old November 16th 07, 06:02 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Shore
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Posts: 7,732
Default Help with my dog - Please!!

In article 2007111608534916807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom,
C J Campbell wrote:
When she goes in the house, say nothing. Just clean it up. Punishing
her will confuse her and she might decide to avenge herself by doing it
again, possibly on the bed.


What? Which piece of get-rich-quick-on-the-inner-tubes crap
did you get that from?

Much of the stuff you ran on and on and on and on and on
about was basically okay, although some of it (like the
above) is a load of hooey, and training the dog to ask to go
out is not the same thing as housetraining and shouldn't be
confused.

I've housetrained a lot of dogs and I've found that the two
best tools are crates and tethering. If the dog is messing
in the crate you know that the dog has no inhibitions about
fouling its, uh, "den" and that containment isn't going to
work. I also wouldn't (and don't) wait around for the dog
to ask to go out, and I wouldn't (and don't) assume that a
dog is only going to crap after certain activities like
eating and sleeping. That's more-or-less true for puppies
but adult dogs can be a lot more random.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #6  
Old November 16th 07, 06:24 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
C J Campbell
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Posts: 46
Default Help with my dog - Please!!

On 2007-11-16 09:02:50 -0800, (Melinda Shore) said:

In article 2007111608534916807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom,
C J Campbell wrote:
When she goes in the house, say nothing. Just clean it up. Punishing
her will confuse her and she might decide to avenge herself by doing it
again, possibly on the bed.


What? Which piece of get-rich-quick-on-the-inner-tubes crap
did you get that from?


I would have put it that my opinion differs from yours without being
abusive. Do you treat your dogs that way, too? Frankly, your opening
line proves that you have nothing useful to say.


Much of the stuff you ran on and on and on and on and on
about was basically okay, although some of it (like the
above) is a load of hooey, and training the dog to ask to go
out is not the same thing as housetraining and shouldn't be
confused.

I've housetrained a lot of dogs and I've found that the two
best tools are crates and tethering. If the dog is messing
in the crate you know that the dog has no inhibitions about
fouling its, uh, "den" and that containment isn't going to
work. I also wouldn't (and don't) wait around for the dog
to ask to go out, and I wouldn't (and don't) assume that a
dog is only going to crap after certain activities like
eating and sleeping. That's more-or-less true for puppies
but adult dogs can be a lot more random.


Yeah, whatever. We all have trained a lot of dogs here, haven't we?
With your hostile attitude it is probably true that dogs' behavior in
your presence is a lot more random.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

  #7  
Old November 16th 07, 06:37 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Shore
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Posts: 7,732
Default Help with my dog - Please!!

In article 2007111609245775249-christophercampbell@hotmailcom,
C J Campbell wrote:
I would have put it that my opinion differs from yours without being
abusive. Do you treat your dogs that way, too? Frankly, your opening
line proves that you have nothing useful to say.


Maybe, maybe not, but at least I didn't post something
demonstrably stupid.

Show of hands: Who here thinks that punishing a dog for
messing in the house will cause the dog to seek revenge,
possibly by messing on your bed? This is not a question
about whether or not punishing the dog for messing inside is
productive, it's about whether or not the dog will seek
revenge, and about whether or not he'll single out your bed
as a good target for vengeance.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #8  
Old November 16th 07, 06:48 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
FurPaw
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Posts: 1,469
Default Help with my dog - Please!!

Melinda Shore wrote:

Show of hands: Who here thinks that punishing a dog for
messing in the house will cause the dog to seek revenge,
possibly by messing on your bed? This is not a question
about whether or not punishing the dog for messing inside is
productive, it's about whether or not the dog will seek
revenge, and about whether or not he'll single out your bed
as a good target for vengeance.


Well... My folks had a chihuahua, Poco, whom they claimed would
relieve himself on the leg of their bed after he was scolded.
They said that if they scolded him for anything (don't know
what), they'd have to keep an eye on him for a while, because
he'd mosey on down the hall and hike his leg.

Was it vengeance? Or simply avoiding them post-scolding and
needing to pee?

FurPaw
--
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched,
every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense
a theft from those who hunger and are not fed,
those who are cold and are not clothed."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

To reply, unleash the dog.
  #9  
Old November 16th 07, 06:48 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Suja
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Posts: 2,483
Default Help with my dog - Please!!


"C J Campbell" wrote in message:

I would have put it that my opinion differs from yours


So you think that dogs are actually capable of the kind of complex thinking
that goes into plotting revenge? And choosing specific targets for how to
carry out their revenge?

Suja


  #10  
Old November 16th 07, 06:53 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Shore
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Posts: 7,732
Default Help with my dog - Please!!

In article ,
FurPaw wrote:
Well... My folks had a chihuahua, Poco, whom they claimed would
relieve himself on the leg of their bed after he was scolded.


I believe it. But I don't believe it was revenge. Do you
really?

People ascribe all sorts of stuff to their dogs that's just
not possible. It's hard not to anthropomorphize, but there
are usually simpler explanations.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
 




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