I posted about the Saint Bernard who'd been abused, ribs broken, and shot,
and had to be euth'd because of heart problems etc. Her owner was
heartbroken, and has acquired a Saint Bernard puppy, male. He has been
neutered. Don't know where she got him.

He is now six months old, going to obedience class (clicker training), doing
well. The owner lacks confidence; the dog pulls, she isn't very strong,
he's 95 lbs already, etc. They aren't on heel yet, that comes later. Hmph.
Every obedience class I've taken, we did heel first.

She needs to walk him and is worried that he'll drag her out in traffic or
something before he's fully trained. Understandable. She asked about a
prong collar. I brought one, fitted it, demonstrated how to use it, not to
leave it on, use it with another collar, all the details. Watched her do it
correctly. Husband was concerned that it was cruel; I showed how it can
only tighten enough to poke a bit, not injure. He's a good guy but not
sympathetic to his wife's worries in the matter. The dog has scoped out
who's head of the household and behaves better with him, too, from what I've
seen.

Heh. 4-5 light corrections, he was heeling beautifully, considering he'd
started out dragging her. He isn't as hard a dog as she thinks he is, but
like I said she's a worrywart, and he's gonna be a big boy. She is
committed to impeccable obedience training. The clicker class people will
probably show up here to tar and feather me, lol.

It's an excellent but misunderstood tool.

Let the flames begin.

flick 100785

"Rocky" wrote in message
...

Why? Most people here recognise the utility of a properly used
training aid.

I thought we had a couple of the "only use positive reinforcement" people in
here.

flick 100785

"Many Dogs \(flick\)" said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

It's an excellent but misunderstood tool.

It's my tool of choice for those willing to make a choice.
Normally, the dogs I see have had their owners told: Only a
Gentle Leader, or Only a chain.

Let the flames begin.

Why? Most people here recognise the utility of a properly used
training aid.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Many Dogs \(flick\)" said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

Why? Most people here recognise the utility of a properly
used training aid.

I thought we had a couple of the "only use positive
reinforcement" people in here.

Training has a lot of grey areas and good trainers acknowledge
that. There are way more "there's no such thing as purely
positive reinforcement" people here than people who gainsay
methods ad hominem.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Many Dogs \(flick\)" spoke these words of
wisdom in :

"Rocky" wrote in message
...

Why? Most people here recognise the utility of a properly used
training aid.

I thought we had a couple of the "only use positive reinforcement"
people in here.

flick 100785




They seem to have dissappeared, heading back to the AOL boards.

And inducive training is a powerful tool, but I've seen some real wrecks of
dogs when the owners opt for inducive training "only"

"Many Dogs (flick)" wrote in message
news:gh8%i.4304


Heh. 4-5 light corrections, he was heeling beautifully, considering he'd
started out dragging her. He isn't as hard a dog as she thinks he is, but
like I said she's a worrywart, and he's gonna be a big boy. She is
committed to impeccable obedience training. The clicker class people will
probably show up here to tar and feather me, lol.


I'm not a fan of prong corrections but thing that its a fabulous tool that
allows the dog to correct itself. Great for a situation like you've got
there with a huge dog thats just too strong for its person.

"diddy" none wrote in message
.. .
"Many Dogs \(flick\)" spoke these words of
wisdom in :

"Rocky" wrote in message
...

Why? Most people here recognise the utility of a properly used
training aid.

I thought we had a couple of the "only use positive reinforcement"
people in here.

flick 100785




They seem to have dissappeared, heading back to the AOL boards.

And inducive training is a powerful tool, but I've seen some real wrecks
of
dogs when the owners opt for inducive training "only"

I haven't used Muttley's prong collar for quite a while, but I might try it
again. I really didn't see much difference in his pulling whether I used a
flat collar, choker chain, or prong. He just likes to pull, apparently, but
usually not so much that he even approaches dragging me. My trainer,
Bonnie, recommended very stern choke collar corrections, and maybe that's
what he needs. And maybe the prong collar will be better because it has a
limited choking action.

I have not tried the GL or the Easy Walker, and maybe one of them is worth
a try. But I think Muttley and I have both just become used to the status
quo, and as long as I can control him and he is not injured, it's OK for
now. Maybe I'll go back to training classes again, but I'm really busy with
work related stuff now, and I don't think Muttley's behavior is anything to
worry about.

Paul and Muttley

In article ,
Many Dogs \(flick\) wrote:
I thought we had a couple of the "only use positive reinforcement" people in
here.

Who? The only one I can think of was Leah, and she went
through that phase just as quickly as she went through her
other phases.

Not sure I think much of deliberately trying to pick a
fight, though.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

"Melinda Shore" wrote:
Who? The only one I can think of was Leah, and she went
through that phase just as quickly as she went through her
other phases.

I think there were a couple of others here and there, but she's the only
long-term "regular" I can think of - but as you say, it was also a phase she
went through.

IIRC, though, we *have* a couple of regulars who, while not being "PP",
were somewhat anti-prong; can't recall exactly who at this point, although I
think one may have been Melanie Chang.

Me, I'm far from PP, but I'm a serious un-fan of head halters... aside from
the issues with neck & back strain that happen even with "correct" use of
it, I never will understand how a tool that works by causing discomfort
and/or pain on the sensitive bridge of the nose can be blindly accepted as
"humane".

In article ,
"Many Dogs \(flick\)" wrote:

The clicker class people will
probably show up here to tar and feather me, lol.

It's an excellent but misunderstood tool.

Let the flames begin.

No flames here! Especially with dogs with dense coats and big heavy
necks, it's a really terrific tool. ANY tool is only a bridge to
teaching the exercise, but a prong can truly make a huge leap into the
dog getting it, the owner getting it, and swift training progress can be
made.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com