For Liisa and anyone else knowledgable on coat color genetics........I
have a very uniquely marked full blooded ACD. Most often people refer
to Spike as "blue mottled" , but he is the most "white" blue mottled I
have seen to date. His basic body color is white, spotted with small
black spots (from quarter to dollar sized) on his body (people often
mistake him for a Dal mix), the spots are tan on his legs and face. You
can see a pic of him in the 2nd link in my signature - he is in the 2nd
pic on the page. Anyhow, here's the question: if you were to mate 2
dogs of this color pattern, would deafness become an issue? I know in
aussies, shelties, etc. you NEVER breed merle to merle because of the
tie to blindness/hearing problems. For the records, Spike is neutered
(a rescue dog!), and no plans to breed him or any other dogs. However,
I have a disc dog friend with a similarly marked female who is looking
for a male of this coloring, in the hopes of getting pups of the same
color. How is deafness related to coat color genetics in the ACD, if at
all? Any info, links, etc, greatly appreciated!

Thanks
Tracy

EAT, SLEEP, DISC-DOG!

http://www.flyingk9s.com

http://community.webtv.net/tracycust...USTERGRUBPAGE0

"Tracy Custer" wrote in message
...
For Liisa and anyone else knowledgable on coat color genetics........I
have a very uniquely marked full blooded ACD. Most often people refer
to Spike as "blue mottled" , but he is the most "white" blue mottled I
have seen to date. His basic body color is white, spotted with small
black spots (from quarter to dollar sized) on his body (people often
mistake him for a Dal mix), the spots are tan on his legs and face. You
can see a pic of him in the 2nd link in my signature - he is in the 2nd
pic on the page. Anyhow, here's the question: if you were to mate 2
dogs of this color pattern, would deafness become an issue? I know in
aussies, shelties, etc. you NEVER breed merle to merle because of the
tie to blindness/hearing problems. For the records, Spike is neutered
(a rescue dog!), and no plans to breed him or any other dogs. However,
I have a disc dog friend with a similarly marked female who is looking
for a male of this coloring, in the hopes of getting pups of the same
color. How is deafness related to coat color genetics in the ACD, if at
all? Any info, links, etc, greatly appreciated!

i'm not a geneticist or anything... but that looks like an "extreme"
piebald pattern to me. all piebald dogs are at some risk of deafness,
something like 10% of ACDs will be deaf in one ear, and 4% in both ears
(ACDs are one of the top breeds to be born deaf). a lot of breeds only come
in piebald, and they're bred to one another successfully, so i don't think
it's something you can predict based on that particular coat pattern. in
fact, i don't think they're exactly figured out how it's passed down in
extreme piebald breeds (like Dalmatians).

Liisa, please correct me if i'm wrong... having a piebald dog myself,
piebald deafness is something that i'm very interested in.

-kelly

"culprit" wrote in
:

i'm not a geneticist or anything... but that looks like an "extreme"
piebald pattern to me.

It is, just like ALL ACDs. The amount of ticking doesn't have anything to
do with hearing, just the amount and placing of the colored patches on the
body. Spike's patches are easy to see due to his very sparse ticking. Spike
has very little patching, just colored ears - but luckily the ears, as that
correlates with normal hearing. White or partially white ears are more
often connected with deafness.

Breeding a dog with this little patches to another similar dog means always
a risk. Every Dalmatian breeding means a risk, nearly every Parson breeding
means a risk and about all ACD breedings, no matter how much ticking there
is, are big risks. My opinion is that all these breeds should start
breeding towards dogs with nice color patches on head.

all piebald dogs are at some risk of deafness,

Only swsw dogs aka extreme white spotteds aka extreme piebalds. Normal
piebalds (genotype spsp) have nearly always enough color on head and
deafness isn't a risk. This of a breed like Welsh Springer; at least the
European population is homozygous for spsp piebald pattern, most dogs have
well over 50 % of color on their bodies and deafness is nearly (or
totally?) non-existing.

swsw dogs can be "safe" too. Look at pictures of "color-headed white"
Collies. They are swsw, and they have totally or mostly colored body. But
their heads are more colored than white, and they have always a good
colored patches around eyes and ears. Even solid colored heads exist. No
deafness.

coat pattern. in fact, i don't think they're exactly figured out how
it's passed down in extreme piebald breeds (like Dalmatians).

One study shows that mismarked Dals, the ones with a patch on head or ear,
have much less deafness than "show-marked" Dals.

"Tracy Custer" wrote in message

know in aussies, shelties, etc. you NEVER breed merle to merle because
of the tie to blindness/hearing problems.

Merle is another thing, and although it also kind of has to do with too
much white, it has very little to do with ACDs, ticking and swsw extreme
white spotting pattern. No merle in ACDs.

Spike is neutered (a rescue dog!),

Spike looks so soft-coated for an ACD. Are you sure he is a purebred? I
would vote for an ACD x Border Collie cross. Anyway, this kind of ticking
pleases my eyes more than denser, more typical ACD ticking!

However, I have a disc dog friend with a similarly marked female who
is looking for a male of this coloring, in the hopes of getting pups
of the same color.

Check the amount of colored patches. On relatives too, if possible. Lots of
patches on head means safer breeding.

Liisa

Liisa Sarakontu wrote:
One study shows that mismarked Dals, the ones with a patch on head or ear,
have much less deafness than "show-marked" Dals.

Recently,
http://www.lsu.edu/deafness/VetJDeaf2004.pdf

The conclusion, though, is that *any* patch reduces the likelihood of
deafness.

--
Mary H. and the Ames National Zoo:
Raise A Fund, ANZ Babylon Ranger, ANZ MarmaDUKE, and Rotund Rhia

Quoth Liisa Sarakontu on Fri, 12 Nov 2004 05:56:59
+0000 (UTC),

swsw dogs can be "safe" too. Look at pictures of "color-headed white"
Collies. They are swsw, and they have totally or mostly colored body. But
their heads are more colored than white, and they have always a good
colored patches around eyes and ears. Even solid colored heads exist. No
deafness.

"white body" for "colored body."

Well, I knew what you meant, but just in case someone is confused...


-----------------------------------------
Only know that there is no spork.

Elizabeth Naime wrote in
:

"white body" for "colored body."
Well, I knew what you meant, but just in case someone is confused...

Oops, thanks for correcting that. Proofreading is just for sissy writers!

Liisa

Thank-you for the great information! I have found a few good sites on
ACD genetics as well, and I'm starting to learn some of the basics.
Btw, Spike is a reg. ACD, turned into the shelter for eating cats. His
breeder tracked me down after he saw a story in the local paper with
Spike's disc dog pic. He does have the softest coat we've seen on an
ACD.....

Tracy

EAT, SLEEP, DISC-DOG!

http://www.flyingk9s.com

http://community.webtv.net/tracycust...USTERGRUBPAGE0