I sometimes visit a friend who runs www.horserescue.com, and they have two
terrier type dogs. The white/tan one is very friendly, but the black one
seems to send mixed signals, especially toward men. When I came in, he (I
think it's male) greeted me with a wagging tail and a few barks, and he
even licked my hand, but then he backed off and growled. He even does this
with Skip, who is a family member. Debbie shouts a sharp "No!" when he does
this, but I don't think it does much good. She is an "old school" horse
trainer, and has also trained some dogs, but she says terriers are near
impossible to train.

The dog does not really seem aggressive or fearful, but the growling is
troublesome. Several people there remarked that he might be just "talking"
in his own way, but Debbie is afraid that maybe he might bite someone. I'm
not directly involved, and I would not presume to give dog training tips,
but maybe someone has had similar experience and I could pass on any ideas.

I'll probably be visiting again on Christmas and I can make more
observations then.

Paul and Muttley

I'm just wondering why when he growls at you once backing off that you don't
give a verbal correction. I know I certainly would voice a strong NO at him
then walk away and ignore him. He may be just talking like some have said
but still growling is not a good thing. It's one thing I absolutely do not
put up with in my dogs.

I have a husky puppy who is extremely talkative and she does her grumbles
and growls but there is a definate difference between the tone when she is
talking and when she is voiceing displeasure and growling and I quickly
correct the second one.

Celeste



"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in message
...
I sometimes visit a friend who runs www.horserescue.com, and they have two
terrier type dogs. The white/tan one is very friendly, but the black one
seems to send mixed signals, especially toward men. When I came in, he (I
think it's male) greeted me with a wagging tail and a few barks, and he
even licked my hand, but then he backed off and growled. He even does this
with Skip, who is a family member. Debbie shouts a sharp "No!" when he does
this, but I don't think it does much good. She is an "old school" horse
trainer, and has also trained some dogs, but she says terriers are near
impossible to train.

The dog does not really seem aggressive or fearful, but the growling is
troublesome. Several people there remarked that he might be just "talking"
in his own way, but Debbie is afraid that maybe he might bite someone. I'm
not directly involved, and I would not presume to give dog training tips,
but maybe someone has had similar experience and I could pass on any
ideas.

I'll probably be visiting again on Christmas and I can make more
observations then.

Paul and Muttley

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:41:22 -0500, "Paul E. Schoen"
wrote:

I'm not directly involved,

And for that, dogs around the world are eternally grateful.

and I would not presume to give dog training tips,

And for that, too, dogs around the world are eternally grateful.

but maybe someone has had similar experience and I could pass on any ideas.

Yeah: mind your own business.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

U.S. Senate Report: Over 400 Prominent Scientists Disputed Man-Made Global Warming Claims in 2007
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.c...8-3c63dc2d02cb

In Canada: "Only a bigot would argue that every Muslim was violent or opposed to Western freedom.
But only a coward (Hi, Melinda!) or a liar would argue that there was not a profound and deeply
worrying link between conservative Islam and myriad acts of terror, intolerance and hysterical anger."
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Colum...15/4725863.php

Great Britain (Hi, Alison!): Stupid is as stupid does. sigh
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...icle577014.ece

Climate change: Skeptical Scientists Urge World To "Have the Courage to Do Nothing" At UN Conference
http://preview.tinyurl.com/ypfck4

Victor Davis Hanson on War and History: Chapters 1 - 5.
http://tv.nationalreview.com/uncommonknowledge/

The Science of Gore's Nobel.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/column.../?id=110010947

in rec.pets.dogs.behavior, "Paul E. Schoen" wrote in
:

When I came in, he (I
think it's male) greeted me with a wagging tail and a few barks, and he
even licked my hand, but then he backed off and growled.

This is only my experience with Moogli, but when he greets me and then
backs off and growls, he wants me to do something. It is an invitation to
play.

--
Marcel Beaudoin and Moogli

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote:

She is an "old school" horse trainer, and has also trained some dogs, but
she says terriers are near impossible to train.

She's very wrong about that. It's impossible to tell from your description
what BREED of terriers they are (although it sounds like it may be a Jack
Russell and a Patterdale), but terriers are very trainable IF you know what
you're doing.
For an example, I point you to the many Jack Russell Terriers seen in
movies and TV commercials, as well as the many who have advanced titles in
agility.


The dog does not really seem aggressive or fearful, but the growling is
troublesome. Several people there remarked that he might be just "talking"
in his own way, but Debbie is afraid that maybe he might bite someone.

Growling does not equal biting. Growling is a communication, and terriers
tend to be talkers. However, it's impossible to tell from a written
description exactly what this particular dog is trying to communicate.
I will say, however, that IME shouting "NO" at a dog which growls is likely
to be counterproductive.

I'm not directly involved, and I would not presume to give dog training
tips,

Which you shouldn't, since you don't have much training experience, and
AFAIK have NO experience with terriers.


but maybe someone has had similar experience and I could pass on any
ideas.

I have had similar experiences, and am experienced with some terriers, but
I'd have to SEE the behaviour, and get a clearer idea of the dog's
temperament and possible reasons for growling, before I'd make any sort of
suggestions.

"Marcel Beaudoin" wrote in message
. 1.4...
in rec.pets.dogs.behavior, "Paul E. Schoen" wrote in
:

When I came in, he (I
think it's male) greeted me with a wagging tail and a few barks, and he
even licked my hand, but then he backed off and growled.

This is only my experience with Moogli, but when he greets me and then
backs off and growls, he wants me to do something. It is an invitation to
play.

Thanks for the observation. I know that Muttley growls and barks when he is
outside and wants to come in, but he never growls at me once I have
acknowledged his communication. So, maybe this dog does want to play. I
knew someone who house sat with JRT, and he would also growl, but it did
not seem quite like a warning. Maybe it's a terrier trait?

Paul and Sir Muttley

"Spot" wrote in message
news:RDRaj.71$si6.1@trndny08...
I'm just wondering why when he growls at you once backing off that you
don't give a verbal correction. I know I certainly would voice a strong
NO at him then walk away and ignore him. He may be just talking like
some have said but still growling is not a good thing. It's one thing I
absolutely do not put up with in my dogs.

I have a husky puppy who is extremely talkative and she does her grumbles
and growls but there is a definate difference between the tone when she
is talking and when she is voiceing displeasure and growling and I
quickly correct the second one.

Well, I would not presume to correct someone else's dog, although I
probably reflexively say or do something to indicate that I do not like his
behavior. I might give a sharp "hey", and I do tend to ignore him when he
does that. They've had him for about a month now, and I'm sure he was a
rescue of some sort. He seems fairly calm and independent most of the time,
and he has free run of part of the house and outside (they live on a farm).
But it's mostly when making any sort of eye contact, or when he realizes
that whoever it is happens to be a guy. He does not have the same behavior
with women.

Paul and Muttley

In article ,
"Paul E. Schoen" wrote:


Well, I would not presume to correct someone else's dog, although I
probably reflexively say or do something to indicate that I do not like his
behavior. I might give a sharp "hey", and I do tend to ignore him when he
does that.

my general approach to a dog who acts like that is a "don't be silly -
I'm not doing anything" and go about my business. Over addressing the
issue is often more harmful than helpful. He sounds like he's unsure
and if you're relaxed, chances are he'll become so too. Still, hard to
say w/out seeing the behavior.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote
in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

Thanks for the observation. I know that Muttley growls and barks when
he is outside and wants to come in, but he never growls at me once I
have acknowledged his communication. So, maybe this dog does want to
play. I knew someone who house sat with JRT, and he would also growl,
but it did not seem quite like a warning. Maybe it's a terrier trait?

All of the terriers that I have known (all of 4 maybe) have been very
vocal. Moogli growls differently for anything. Very rarely does he whine,
unless it is to let us know he has accidentally gotten shut behind a door
or soomething like that. Other than that, it is all manner of growls that
he uses.

--
Marcel and Moogli

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in message
...
I sometimes visit a friend who runs www.horserescue.com, and they have two
terrier type dogs. The white/tan one is very friendly, but the black one
seems to send mixed signals, especially toward men. When I came in, he (I
think it's male) greeted me with a wagging tail and a few barks, and he
even licked my hand, but then he backed off and growled. He even does this
with Skip, who is a family member. Debbie shouts a sharp "No!" when he does
this, but I don't think it does much good. She is an "old school" horse
trainer, and has also trained some dogs, but she says terriers are near
impossible to train.

I once met a pit bull who did this. She'd be jumping and thrilled to see me
but then I'd pet her and then she'd growl. It made me uncomfortable. So,
i stopped petting her and paid all my attention to her goofy brother, who
didnt' growl. She then tried desperately to get me to pay attention to her
again, jumping, kissing and putting her head under my hand. And then
again, a growl. At that point, i stopped paying any attention to the dog.

Both of these dogs were subsequently in big trouble with animal control when
one of them (supposedly the male) bit a nurse coming to the home. Not
surprising.