My 2 year old Shar-pit ( half Shar-pei, half pit bull) had 10 very fat and healthy puppies on Nov.22 (thanksgiving). She did very good nursing them and keeping them clean...Well until they got teeth and claws at 4 weeks old. I would beg her to get in with them and nurse them but she wouldn't. The only way we could get her to nurse was to grab her by the collar and put her in with them and sit beside her so she wouldn't get up because she would as soon as we'd leave the room. I can't blame her for not wanting to nurse because the puppies were clawing her up so bad she was bleeding from the claw marks. I was worried about the puppies getting enough to eat so I bought some soft food and gave it to them and they loved it! I then gave them some water and they drank it up too. I had them in a large plastic kiddie pool and by 4 weeks they were climbing out and running all through the house. My mom told me it would be ok to give them away if they could eat and drink on their own. By this time , my dog has stopped cleaning up after them and stopped nursing them. So you could imagine the mess and the noise they created. Well, I told everyone that if they wanted to, they could come pick up their puppy, I stressed to everyone the ages of the pups and was reassured they would all be takin care of. Well a cousin of mine, the studs owner, ran and claimed his first pick and brought people with him who ended up taking half of the liter home with them at 4 weeks old. I was told he would keep her inside but when I went to his house after one week, she was outside with a broken rib already. He was playing dumb about how it might have happened so I let it go. I kept one of her puppies too, and when I brought mine to his house that first week, they were the same size. Well another week passed and I went to his house and his puppy seemed to have shrunk compaired to mine and he wasn't home, no one was and she was outside all alone. I also checked on the daddy to the liter and he was ...is so skinny you could count his ribs. My cousin doesn't have a good record of keeping his dogs with food and water on a daily basis. He once had to keep my dog for me and she was skinny by the first 2 weeks .So I removed her. My brother also had a dog at his home and he too was skinny until we got him. Well 3 weeks ago my cousin said his puppy was dragging her back leg and he didn't know why, well a couple of days later she was dead. He told me just yesterday that another puppy I had given to his dad, my uncle, started limping and he was taken to the vet where he supposabley was told that something was wrong with all the puppies because they were taken away from their mother too soon and it had something to do with their bodies outgrowing their ligaments.He also claims that is what his died from. I myself think that if his other dog isn't being fed then how could any of them be? I want to know if I am wrong to blame him or if he has a ligitamate reason for his puppy's demise!

In article ,
logey30 wrote:


My 2 year old Shar-pit ( half Shar-pei, half pit bull) had 10 very fat
and healthy puppies on Nov.22 (thanksgiving).

I'm sorry you let that happen. Do you have a spay appointment scheduled
now?

She did very good nursing
them and keeping them clean...Well until they got teeth and claws at 4
weeks old. snipI was worried about the puppies
getting enough to eat so I bought some soft food and gave it to them
and they loved it!

In other words, the process of weaning.

I then gave them some water and they drank it up
too. I had them in a large plastic kiddie pool and by 4 weeks they were
climbing out and running all through the house. My mom told me it would
be ok to give them away if they could eat and drink on their own. By
this time , my dog has stopped cleaning up after them and stopped
nursing them. So you could imagine the mess and the noise they created.

Actual responsible breeders use containment. Most states have laws that
puppies cannot be placed until 8 weeks old. Even if not, no puppy
should be placed before 7 weeks.

Well a cousin of mine, the
studs owner, ran and claimed his first pick

Exactly what kind of dog is this stud? You did this on purpose?

he wasn't
home, no one was and she was outside all alone. I also checked on the
daddy to the liter and he was ...is so skinny you could count his ribs.
My cousin doesn't have a good record of keeping his dogs with food and
water on a daily basis.

But you chose to get your dog pregnant by his unhealthy dog AND let him
have a puppy, not to mention at 4 weeks??

he supposabley was told that
something was wrong with all the puppies because they were taken away
from their mother too soon and it had something to do with their bodies
outgrowing their ligaments.He also claims that is what his died from. I
myself think that if his other dog isn't being fed then how could any
of them be? I want to know if I am wrong to blame him or if he has a
ligitamate reason for his puppy's demise!

You're ALL to blame. How old are you? What made you decide to breed
your dog? What was your goal? Did you have any plan for the placement
and health of the puppies? Did you ever consult a vet? Take the dam or
the puppies to the vet? ANYTHING except let her get pregnant and then
dump the puppies as fast as you could?

What a horrible and sad situation.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

logey30 spoke these words of wisdom in
:


My 2 year old Shar-pit ( half Shar-pei, half pit bull) had 10 very fat
and healthy puppies on Nov.22 (thanksgiving). She did very good nursing
them and keeping them clean...Well until they got teeth and claws at 4
weeks old. I would beg her to get in with them and nurse them but she
wouldn't. The only way we could get her to nurse was to grab her by the
collar and put her in with them and sit beside her so she wouldn't get
up because she would as soon as we'd leave the room. I can't blame her
for not wanting to nurse because the puppies were clawing her up so bad
she was bleeding from the claw marks. I was worried about the puppies
getting enough to eat so I bought some soft food and gave it to them
and they loved it! I then gave them some water and they drank it up
too. I had them in a large plastic kiddie pool and by 4 weeks they were
climbing out and running all through the house. My mom told me it would
be ok to give them away if they could eat and drink on their own. By
this time , my dog has stopped cleaning up after them and stopped
nursing them. So you could imagine the mess and the noise they created.
Well, I told everyone that if they wanted to, they could come pick up
their puppy, I stressed to everyone the ages of the pups and was
reassured they would all be takin care of. Well a cousin of mine, the
studs owner, ran and claimed his first pick and brought people with him
who ended up taking half of the liter home with them at 4 weeks old. I
was told he would keep her inside but when I went to his house after
one week, she was outside with a broken rib already. He was playing
dumb about how it might have happened so I let it go. I kept one of her
puppies too, and when I brought mine to his house that first week, they
were the same size. Well another week passed and I went to his house
and his puppy seemed to have shrunk compaired to mine and he wasn't
home, no one was and she was outside all alone. I also checked on the
daddy to the liter and he was ...is so skinny you could count his ribs.
My cousin doesn't have a good record of keeping his dogs with food and
water on a daily basis. He once had to keep my dog for me and she was
skinny by the first 2 weeks .So I removed her. My brother also had a
dog at his home and he too was skinny until we got him. Well 3 weeks
ago my cousin said his puppy was dragging her back leg and he didn't
know why, well a couple of days later she was dead. He told me just
yesterday that another puppy I had given to his dad, my uncle, started
limping and he was taken to the vet where he supposabley was told that
something was wrong with all the puppies because they were taken away
from their mother too soon and it had something to do with their bodies
outgrowing their ligaments.He also claims that is what his died from. I
myself think that if his other dog isn't being fed then how could any
of them be? I want to know if I am wrong to blame him or if he has a
ligitamate reason for his puppy's demise!
The ultimate responsibility of the welfare and future of a litter of
puppies resides with the bitch owner. They are the one who decides if this
is a good breeding (this was NOT), Was there a demand for these puppies
before she was bred? (apparently there was, but the demand was not a GOOD
place)
Did both parents have health certs before breeding?
Are you prepared to care for the puppies after they are born? (Hint.. lots
of work, they make a mess) Apparently that wasn't in place in this
breeding.
A breeder carefully selects homes for their puppies. Does home visits to
insure the puppies are doing well and have support, and you will take them
back no questions asked. You pay a stud fee if you do not think the stud
owner is a suitable place for your puppies to go. (Hint.. do not breed to a
stud under those conditions)

There are so many problems with this breeding and this litter, that the
majority of the blame goes on the breeder. The breeder did not provide a
safety net for these puppies. Secondary blame goes to your brother

logey30 wrote:
I want to know if I am wrong to blame him or if he has a
ligitamate reason for his puppy's demise!

Okay, I think you can see that the whole thing was a mess from
beginning to end? There's good information here on responsible
breeding. *Please* read through it before breeding your dog again.
Being a good breeder is hard work.

http://www.dogplay.com/Breeding/index.html

Next, you should never have let the puppies go when you did. Four
weeks old is *way* too early. Eight weeks is a good rule of thumb.
Of course, the mother will probably wean them and stop cleaning up
after them long before they are old enough to place, but it's your
responsibility to step in and feed them and clean up after them.

You should not have given puppies to people who were not going to
keep them indoors, *especially* given how young they were. That was
asking for trouble.

Improper nutrition can certainly cause growth problems, and even
death. There's no way to know whether the one puppy died from
malnutrition or from starvation. I think, when you saw that he was
not being properly cared for, it's your responsibility as a breeder
to take him back, get him healthy, and rehome him with someone who
will not mistreat him. You can't change the past, but in the
future, I hope you'll keep that in mind and make better decisions
about who to place puppies with and how to deal with bad placements.

Basically, you can't change what happened. You *can* stop it from
happening again in the future by learning how to become a
responsible breeder. As for who to blame for the puppy's death, I
think you and your cousin both made some really bad decisions and
are both responsible for the puppy's death. The good news is that
your bad decisions were the result of ignorance, and ignorance can
be cured!

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

Shelly wrote:

The good news is that your bad decisions were
the result of ignorance, and ignorance can be cured!

A ray of hope that I wish more pet rescuers would catch. Some of them
feel that once you make a mistake, you are ruined for life and there is
no "cure."

Samantha Hill - take out TRASH to reply schrieb:
Shelly wrote:

The good news is that your bad decisions were the result of ignorance,
and ignorance can be cured!


A ray of hope that I wish more pet rescuers would catch. Some of them
feel that once you make a mistake, you are ruined for life and there is
no "cure."

Or just don't feel able to predict the future with any certainty and
would rather err on the side of caution.

For all that I admire the optimism that it takes to advise the poster to
read up on good breeding practice, I wholeheartedly agree with Janet
that the best solution here is for the mother to be spayed.

I'm not saying this because I subscribe to the view that all ordinary
pets should be "fixed" as a matter of course; I don't hold this view.
But this is a clear case if ever there was one.

Sally

sallytighe wrote:

A ray of hope that I wish more pet rescuers would catch. Some of them
feel that once you make a mistake, you are ruined for life and there
is no "cure."

Or just don't feel able to predict the future with any certainty and
would rather err on the side of caution.


Well, yeah, theoretically, but if someone says, "20 years ago I didn't
know what all was out there and I did [insert rescuer's pet peeve here]
but now that I know there are far more options, I would not do it
again," you would think that someone would give them a chance.

"logey30" wrote in message
...

My 2 year old Shar-pit ( half Shar-pei, half pit bull) had 10 very fat
and healthy puppies on Nov.22 (thanksgiving).
.. By
this time , my dog has stopped cleaning up after them and stopped
nursing them. So you could imagine the mess and the noise they created.
Well, I told everyone that if they wanted to, they could come pick up
their puppy, I stressed to everyone the ages of the pups and was
(4 weeks)

Honestly, I can't think of anything nice to say, so I will say nothing more
than get your dog spayed. Then you won't have to worry about educating
yourself the next time you plan a recreational breeding.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

buglady wrote:

Honestly, I can't think of anything nice to say, so I will say nothing more
than get your dog spayed. Then you won't have to worry about educating
yourself the next time you plan a recreational breeding.

Well done! Berating and talking down to kids is guaranteed to make
them dig in their heels and do exactly the opposite of what you want
them to do.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

"Shelly" wrote in message
...
Well done! Berating and talking down to kids is guaranteed to make
them dig in their heels and do exactly the opposite of what you want
them to do.
......oh shut up Shelly. If this KID is old enough to be mating dogs
together and has a BF, she's old enough to understand a dog needs vet care.

buglady
take out the dog before replying