I know there are a lot of folks who "do" or don't "do" guns. I'm
trying to make sense of something that has happened locally.

A 16 year old just killed his 2 younger brothers and well as his
parents. He shot them with his father's gun.

While one may think that the family was for gun rights and this was a
tragic odd turn of events, the morning paper reports that the father's
brother "accidentally" killed his sister, at about the same ages, 30 or
so years ago. Supposedly he was "cleaning" the gun (who assigns that
task to a 15-16 yo home w/out an adult?) and his sister happened to walk
out of her bedroom and in front of his bedroom doorway, and it
accidentally shot and killed her. The mother of that crew (grandmother
of the current killer) has a lot of money and influence. I don't
believe for a second that was an "accident".

After such a tragic event in a young life, I just don't get keeping a
loaded (or easy access to ammo) gun in the house, with 3 teenagers.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet said in part....
After such a tragic event in a young life, I just don't get keeping a
loaded (or easy to access to ammo) gun in the house, with 3 teenagers.
_____________________________
Janet,
I couldn't agree more. I saw this story on the national news,
assuming it is the same family. The story I saw said the boy (shooter)
was an Eagle Scout and his father was a scout leader. These days it is
kind of hard to keep up with mass murders. I had not heard the
background story that you posted about a shooting in the house 30 years
earlier, that was deemed "accidental".
I own 2 hand guns and one long gun. I do not have any children at
home. I did not own any guns until my children were grown and gone. I
can assure you if there had been a shooting in my family, accidental or
not, there would be no guns in my home. I am an advocate of gun
ownership, but after what happened in that family, you would think the
last thing they would have is a gun, secured or accessible.


Be Free.....Judy

"Judith Althouse" wrote:

The story I saw said the boy (shooter)
was an Eagle Scout and his father was a scout leader.

The father was a Scout leader, yes; the son was working on Eagle Scout,
hadn't made it yet.
The kids were in the same school as my boss's older three, he's a Scout
leader in the same
council, they live next door to one of our customers... everybody in the
community is pretty
shaken up and/or creeped out by the whole thing.

These days it is
kind of hard to keep up with mass murders.

This isn't a "mass murder". This is a family tragedy.

I had not heard the
background story that you posted about a shooting in the house 30 years
earlier, that was deemed "accidental".

The family was not living in the same house where the father grew up
(and where his brother accidentally shot his sister more than 30 years ago).

In article ,
"sionnach" wrote:


The family was not living in the same house where the father grew up
(and where his brother accidentally shot his sister more than 30 years ago).

I admit that I am VERY skeptical that it was "accidental". It seems
"mom" had/has a lot of influence in the community.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

"Janet Boss" wrote:

A 16 year old just killed his 2 younger brothers and well as his
parents. He shot them with his father's gun.

He's actually not yet 16.

Supposedly he was "cleaning" the gun (who assigns that
task to a 15-16 yo home w/out an adult?)

I doubt he was "assigned that task". In families which live rurally and/or
hunt, it's
not unusual for a teen to own his own hunting gun, and it's not at all
implausible
that a kid that age might have decided to clean his own gun.
My S.O. lives in Cecil County, grew up hunting (although he no longer
does),
and was given his first shotgun at about age 12; his kids are 15, both know
how to shoot,
the son has been hunting with his stepdad since he was 11 or so.
And not all families, especially 30+ years ago, are as drilled in gun
safety as that of
my ex-military S.O.

. I don't believe for a second that was an "accident".

What's your basis for this? Again, to me its not at all implausible that a
kid might have been careless with a gun-
tragic accidents like that happen all the time.

After such a tragic event in a young life, I just don't get keeping a
loaded (or easy access to ammo) gun in the house, with 3 teenagers.

I've not seen or heard anything indicating whether or not the handgun used
in this crime was "kept loaded", or whether there was easy access to the
ammo.
In any case, IF he actually did it, and what I've been hearing (not on the
news) is
correct, this wasn't something that happened in a moment of passion, but was
premeditated and planned,
and carried out in the middle of the night.
IOW, he may very well have removed the gun from a lockbox and loaded it, and
it's entirely possible
that his parents weren't aware he knew how to access it.

In article ,
"sionnach" wrote:


I doubt he was "assigned that task". In families which live rurally and/or
hunt, it's
not unusual for a teen to own his own hunting gun, and it's not at all
implausible
that a kid that age might have decided to clean his own gun.

I suppose. Even 30 years ago, I'm not sure how rural HoCo was, but
parts of it were.


. I don't believe for a second that was an "accident".

What's your basis for this? Again, to me its not at all implausible that a
kid might have been careless with a gun-
tragic accidents like that happen all the time.

I think there is a tone to the reports about who the grandmother is,
that hints at her having been able to control the charges somewhat. A
gut feeling I guess.


After such a tragic event in a young life, I just don't get keeping a
loaded (or easy access to ammo) gun in the house, with 3 teenagers.

I've not seen or heard anything indicating whether or not the handgun used
in this crime was "kept loaded", or whether there was easy access to the
ammo.

Well, it was easy enough if he managed it!

IOW, he may very well have removed the gun from a lockbox and loaded it, and
it's entirely possible
that his parents weren't aware he knew how to access it.

Which means that they weren't keeping a gun as responsibly as they
needed to. Something very wrong with this kid obviously, deep down
and not on the surface, to be able to do what he did. What a horrible
incident.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

In article ,
Terri wrote:


Stranger than life things *can* happen.

I agree. I think this kind of thing warrants a look at some possible
mental health issues in genetics.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

410-785-1700
"Janet Boss" wrote:

I suppose. Even 30 years ago, I'm not sure how rural HoCo was, but
parts of it were.

The area of Harford where they were/are is still fairly rural AFAIK,
although I don't think there's as much hunting as there once was.
And don't forget that this particular family is of the social class
where hunting (esp. for birds of various sorts) is considered a
sport.... "gentleman's sport" sort of attitude... and may be
carried out down on the Shore, etc.

I think there is a tone to the reports about who the grandmother is,
that hints at her having been able to control the charges somewhat.

Yep, I've noticed that. But I don't necessarily put much stock in "tone"
in news reports. I'm not dismissing the possibility that there was
some level of "coverup" in the old incident, but IMO it's as
much or more possible that the tone is media hype rather than reality.
I'll also add that my perception of her is colored, to some exent, by my
awareness of
her participation in anti-smoking programs in local schools.


Which means that they weren't keeping a gun as responsibly as they
needed to.

I don't think that conclusion can be drawn, since I can't see that
"responsible
gun ownership" includes planning against one of your kids shooting you in
bed
while you sleep. :-(

For most people I know who actually own guns, responsible gun ownership
means keeping guns where *young*
kids don't have access at all, and nobody has *instant* access, and also
includes educating kids about proper gun handling.
It doesn't necessarily include taking extreme precautions against a young
adult in the family having any knowlege of
where the gun is or how it's accessed.
Again, I'm not saying you may not be right, I'm saying there simply isn't
enough real evidence,
at this point, for anyone to say definitively that the gun was being kept
irresponsibly.

Not to mention that if he really did plan it as cold-bloodedly as is being
indicated,
he might very well have gotten a gun somewhere else if there hadn't been one
in the
house.


Something very wrong with this kid obviously, deep down
and not on the surface, to be able to do what he did.

No disagreement there!! Especially given the level of planning that
apparently went into it, and the
apparent cold-bloodedness of it.

My personal suspcion, I will say, is that more is going to come out about
things going on behind the facade
of "perfect family".

In article ,
"sionnach" wrote:



The area of Harford where they were/are is still fairly rural AFAIK,
although I don't think there's as much hunting as there once was.

The family where the son shot the sister, was in HOWARD.

I think there is a tone to the reports about who the grandmother is,
that hints at her having been able to control the charges somewhat.

Yep, I've noticed that. But I don't necessarily put much stock in "tone"
in news reports. I'm not dismissing the possibility that there was
some level of "coverup" in the old incident, but IMO it's as
much or more possible that the tone is media hype rather than reality.
I'll also add that my perception of her is colored, to some exent, by my
awareness of
her participation in anti-smoking programs in local schools.

Fair enough,


Which means that they weren't keeping a gun as responsibly as they
needed to.

I don't think that conclusion can be drawn, since I can't see that
"responsible
gun ownership" includes planning against one of your kids shooting you in
bed
while you sleep. :-(

Maybe it should! Or maybe just a good reason not to have children!

Not to mention that if he really did plan it as cold-bloodedly as is being
indicated,
he might very well have gotten a gun somewhere else if there hadn't been one
in the
house.

Agreed. Very frightening that someone who appeared to be pretty
straight-up, could do something like this.

My personal suspcion, I will say, is that more is going to come out about
things going on behind the facade
of "perfect family".

As so often is the case.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

--
Janet Boss wrote:

The family where the son shot the sister, was in HOWARD.

smacks self in forehead You're right.

Maybe it should! Or maybe just a good reason not to have children!

Heh.

Agreed. Very frightening that someone who appeared to be pretty
straight-up, could do something like this.

Mmm... I don't want to say much, because it's based on hearsay (mostly
from kids
who went to school with him), but there's some evidence that he may have
been
one of those kids who seem squeaky-clean to most adults, but are nasty to
peers.


My personal suspcion, I will say, is that more is going to come out about
things going on behind the facade
of "perfect family".

As so often is the case.

Yup.
BTW, a couple of things regarding the aunt's death... I got curious and
checked the dates; it was in
February of 1973, at which time the father in the current incident would
have been only 10.
And the gun in question was a .22 rifle, which is not only a fairly typical
first gun, but one which unfortunately isn't always treated with the
respect it should be due to the perception that it's a "light" gun.