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Need a reality check: my dog has cancer.



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 6th 08, 05:47 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
lavachickie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Need a reality check: my dog has cancer.

One of my furry children has been diagnosed with lymphoma. I think I
know what to do. But I want a good committee response from those who
know.

The short version? My oldest dog is in Stage Vb lymphoma; what's the
chances of getting at least as many healthy, happy days as the first
round of treatment would take?

The long version.

He is a 11.5 year old chow/retriever mix. We did notice a weight loss,
but as we were trying to increase exercise and limit food in all of
our pack (three pups) we didn't initially notice. Then we thought his
faster weight loss was simply due to age as he remained his usual
self. But at some point it dawned on us that this wasn't right.

We moved 2.5 years ago (years which he has, if anything, seemed to get
YOUNGER as he loves the weather and the big yard here; his stiffness
post ACL repair four years ago was greatly improved). The vet he had
seen for yearlies had moved, so it was a good time to find another
vet. We went to one who I did NOT like (unprofessional, didn't
diagnose anything but started giving us lots of stuff and focused more
on their "payment plan" than on the state of my dog's health)... so
before going back a week later for the follow-up, we switched to
another vet.

So this visit was 11 days after that first, and she identified a mass
in the cranial abdomen and swollen lymph nodes. (Neither of which the
first vet mentioned in his rather quick and light physical exam.) Fine
needle aspirations were looked at on the spot and with the caveat that
she's not a pathologist she felt there was plenty of cause for
concern. The next day pathology results confirmed lymphoma; there are
neoplastic lymphocytes in the blood as well, so the cancer is in the
bone marrow. This was Wednesday. Thursday we had a conference with a
cancer rotation at a teaching vet hospital at a university that is an
hour and a half away, and they said to bring him down Monday.

I understand that untreated, lymphoma gives you perhaps eight weeks. I
realize now that this has been going on, insidiously, for a while. I
can't pinpoint just when -- was his retiscence to come up the steps in
the winter his love of being outside in the cold (he's an odd bird),
stiffness, or the first signs of weakness? I'll never know.

Three weeks ago he was mostly his normal self. In the past three days,
however, things have slid fast. He's still smiling and wagging, but
his energy is ebbing so quickly.

A week ago he first missed the step into the house, his back legs
giving out on him. A few days ago he started insisting on staying
outside -- he's ALWAYS loved the yard and preferred it to inside, but
now he positively insists, laying in his favorite spots, regardless of
the rain that hasn't quite yet let up here in the PNW.

A day or so ago rising was REALLY labored, and often required help.

Last night he came into the house reluctantly, but we weren't going to
let him stay outside due to temperature dips. (He's an "indoor dog"
but more than once in his younger healthier life he would run from us
at the door and INSIST on staying outside all night... or at least
until 4-5 am when he would then stand at the back door and utter a
single, even cadenced bark until we let him in. We have a very secure .
25 acre back yard with a 6 foot security fence with locked gates, so
it wasn't an issue.)

This morning walking is teetery. He fell when trying to turn himself
around, slowly, as his feet just don't seem to come UP very far. But
then after a nap in the lawn he rose, slowly, and walked to another
spot without trouble.

His appetite in the last week has slowly ebbed as well; this morning
was the first time he has refused food. Yesterday he only picked at
some shredded turkey I'd just picked off a bird, the day before he'd
eaten but without enthusiasm his beef and rice. A week ago he was
sharking chunks of meat out of my fingertips.

Part of me wants to fight until the end; I'd be glad to wrap him in a
blanket and carry him into the evaluation (he's 65 lb; he used to be
85--of course between the two vet visits he'd lost three pounds, so
he's likely more now despite us feeding him anything and everything
along the lines of the cancer support diet we are following). However,
as a teaching hospital, I know they need to see dogs in advanced
stages of illness, so getting to the evaluation doesn't mean we'll get
good news.

Something tells me that to start this new battle would be for me, and
not for him. I've spent some hours just lying with him, trying to hear
him. His tail still wags, but his eyes are dimmer. He seems to
understand something is wrong, but isn't necessarily scared by it. He
comes close for some love, then pulls himself away and wants to be
alone.

He just wants to lay out in his beloved yard.

Last week I was hopeful and optimistic about trying chemo, for a first
remission with lymphoma seems to be possible for many. But in most
established treatment programs, dogs must be no more far along than
Stage III. He's clearly Stage V. I understand that even in the best
case scenario, this is a fight that cannot be won. I'd gladly spend
the time and money to get, say, 11 more months of quality time even
for a few weeks of hell to get there. I think he'd agree.

But in his weakened state -- we'd have to first do surgery to remove
the spleen, then pursue chemo -- my gut tells me he wouldn't make it
through the first part, and while if he were healthier with more
energy, I think he'd go through chemo treatment well. If he were more
well he wouldn't mind the 1.5 hour drive there. He is the type that
just takes it all in stride, loves the vet, and didn't even wince when
they did the aspirations on both sides of his neck.

I feel that this vet, who I have a new relationship with, is
responding to my willingness to go the distance, and trying to keep
hope alive -- besides, it's going to be someone else at the teaching
hospital that will tell me he isn't a good candidate, not her.

My husband feels it's not the right choice, and we should just support
him for as long as he is happy to lay in his yard, and should he
progress from frustration and limitation to a state of pain or clear
dissatisfaction, then to do the only thing that we can do (a decision
we had to make three years ago for our 12 year old Shepherd). He's
said his part and says he'll support us in whatever I decide to do.

Most of me agrees with him. But there's still a part of me that
screams WE MUST TRY EVERYTHING! And I'm willing to play the odds if
they are in the last bit favorable -- even 50/50.

But this is a dog in Stage Vb lymphoma; what's the chances of getting
at least as many healthy, happy days as the first round of treatment
would take?

Thanks for your thoughts, especially from those with experience in the
matter.

Amy
  #2  
Old April 6th 08, 10:41 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Spot[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 233
Default Need a reality check: my dog has cancer.

Having gone through this with my dogs I can understand how you feel but at
some point you have to give them peace.

I agree with your husband as long as he has some quality of life keep going.
When he stops eating, struggles to get around and his quality of life is
gone it's time to give him peace and let him go before he's in alot of pain.
It'a an awful thing to have to go through but in the end the best thing you
can do it let them go before they suffer.

Celeste

"lavachickie" wrote in message
...
One of my furry children has been diagnosed with lymphoma. I think I
know what to do. But I want a good committee response from those who
know.

The short version? My oldest dog is in Stage Vb lymphoma; what's the
chances of getting at least as many healthy, happy days as the first
round of treatment would take?

The long version.

He is a 11.5 year old chow/retriever mix. We did notice a weight loss,
but as we were trying to increase exercise and limit food in all of
our pack (three pups) we didn't initially notice. Then we thought his
faster weight loss was simply due to age as he remained his usual
self. But at some point it dawned on us that this wasn't right.

We moved 2.5 years ago (years which he has, if anything, seemed to get
YOUNGER as he loves the weather and the big yard here; his stiffness
post ACL repair four years ago was greatly improved). The vet he had
seen for yearlies had moved, so it was a good time to find another
vet. We went to one who I did NOT like (unprofessional, didn't
diagnose anything but started giving us lots of stuff and focused more
on their "payment plan" than on the state of my dog's health)... so
before going back a week later for the follow-up, we switched to
another vet.

So this visit was 11 days after that first, and she identified a mass
in the cranial abdomen and swollen lymph nodes. (Neither of which the
first vet mentioned in his rather quick and light physical exam.) Fine
needle aspirations were looked at on the spot and with the caveat that
she's not a pathologist she felt there was plenty of cause for
concern. The next day pathology results confirmed lymphoma; there are
neoplastic lymphocytes in the blood as well, so the cancer is in the
bone marrow. This was Wednesday. Thursday we had a conference with a
cancer rotation at a teaching vet hospital at a university that is an
hour and a half away, and they said to bring him down Monday.

I understand that untreated, lymphoma gives you perhaps eight weeks. I
realize now that this has been going on, insidiously, for a while. I
can't pinpoint just when -- was his retiscence to come up the steps in
the winter his love of being outside in the cold (he's an odd bird),
stiffness, or the first signs of weakness? I'll never know.

Three weeks ago he was mostly his normal self. In the past three days,
however, things have slid fast. He's still smiling and wagging, but
his energy is ebbing so quickly.

A week ago he first missed the step into the house, his back legs
giving out on him. A few days ago he started insisting on staying
outside -- he's ALWAYS loved the yard and preferred it to inside, but
now he positively insists, laying in his favorite spots, regardless of
the rain that hasn't quite yet let up here in the PNW.

A day or so ago rising was REALLY labored, and often required help.

Last night he came into the house reluctantly, but we weren't going to
let him stay outside due to temperature dips. (He's an "indoor dog"
but more than once in his younger healthier life he would run from us
at the door and INSIST on staying outside all night... or at least
until 4-5 am when he would then stand at the back door and utter a
single, even cadenced bark until we let him in. We have a very secure .
25 acre back yard with a 6 foot security fence with locked gates, so
it wasn't an issue.)

This morning walking is teetery. He fell when trying to turn himself
around, slowly, as his feet just don't seem to come UP very far. But
then after a nap in the lawn he rose, slowly, and walked to another
spot without trouble.

His appetite in the last week has slowly ebbed as well; this morning
was the first time he has refused food. Yesterday he only picked at
some shredded turkey I'd just picked off a bird, the day before he'd
eaten but without enthusiasm his beef and rice. A week ago he was
sharking chunks of meat out of my fingertips.

Part of me wants to fight until the end; I'd be glad to wrap him in a
blanket and carry him into the evaluation (he's 65 lb; he used to be
85--of course between the two vet visits he'd lost three pounds, so
he's likely more now despite us feeding him anything and everything
along the lines of the cancer support diet we are following). However,
as a teaching hospital, I know they need to see dogs in advanced
stages of illness, so getting to the evaluation doesn't mean we'll get
good news.

Something tells me that to start this new battle would be for me, and
not for him. I've spent some hours just lying with him, trying to hear
him. His tail still wags, but his eyes are dimmer. He seems to
understand something is wrong, but isn't necessarily scared by it. He
comes close for some love, then pulls himself away and wants to be
alone.

He just wants to lay out in his beloved yard.

Last week I was hopeful and optimistic about trying chemo, for a first
remission with lymphoma seems to be possible for many. But in most
established treatment programs, dogs must be no more far along than
Stage III. He's clearly Stage V. I understand that even in the best
case scenario, this is a fight that cannot be won. I'd gladly spend
the time and money to get, say, 11 more months of quality time even
for a few weeks of hell to get there. I think he'd agree.

But in his weakened state -- we'd have to first do surgery to remove
the spleen, then pursue chemo -- my gut tells me he wouldn't make it
through the first part, and while if he were healthier with more
energy, I think he'd go through chemo treatment well. If he were more
well he wouldn't mind the 1.5 hour drive there. He is the type that
just takes it all in stride, loves the vet, and didn't even wince when
they did the aspirations on both sides of his neck.

I feel that this vet, who I have a new relationship with, is
responding to my willingness to go the distance, and trying to keep
hope alive -- besides, it's going to be someone else at the teaching
hospital that will tell me he isn't a good candidate, not her.

My husband feels it's not the right choice, and we should just support
him for as long as he is happy to lay in his yard, and should he
progress from frustration and limitation to a state of pain or clear
dissatisfaction, then to do the only thing that we can do (a decision
we had to make three years ago for our 12 year old Shepherd). He's
said his part and says he'll support us in whatever I decide to do.

Most of me agrees with him. But there's still a part of me that
screams WE MUST TRY EVERYTHING! And I'm willing to play the odds if
they are in the last bit favorable -- even 50/50.

But this is a dog in Stage Vb lymphoma; what's the chances of getting
at least as many healthy, happy days as the first round of treatment
would take?

Thanks for your thoughts, especially from those with experience in the
matter.

Amy



  #3  
Old April 7th 08, 12:12 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
montana wildhack
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,032
Default Need a reality check: my dog has cancer.

You need to make whatever decision you can live with and you need to
share your feelings and thoughts with your husband and listen to his
feelings and thoughts.

You can listen to all of the experiences that other people in the world
have, but you aren't them and they aren't you. You have to do what you
can live with and what is in your dog's best interest.

It isn't easy.

I wish you peace.

  #4  
Old April 7th 08, 01:41 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
lavachickie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Need a reality check: my dog has cancer.

Thanks to those who have responded. I'm comfortable with the fact that
whatever is chosen, I'll have to live with it. I just wish there were
more INFORMATION available, like there is for human cancer!

My message was so detailed I think my point got lost. Let me retry:
has anyone out there had an older dog who is showing signs of weakness
and illness due to this type of cancer who is in a late stage (IV or
V) who has chosen chemotherapy? What was the outcome, both in time
gained, the process, etc?

Amy
  #5  
Old April 7th 08, 01:46 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
diddy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,108
Default Need a reality check: my dog has cancer.

lavachickie spoke these words of wisdom in
:

Thanks to those who have responded. I'm comfortable with the fact that
whatever is chosen, I'll have to live with it. I just wish there were
more INFORMATION available, like there is for human cancer!

My message was so detailed I think my point got lost. Let me retry:
has anyone out there had an older dog who is showing signs of weakness
and illness due to this type of cancer who is in a late stage (IV or
V) who has chosen chemotherapy? What was the outcome, both in time
gained, the process, etc?

Amy

I have a friend whose 4 year old dog was treated with chemo for lymphoma. 4
years later, the dog is still doing well. I have no idea how far advanced
that the lymphoma had progressed, but the dog had been pretty ill at the time
it was detected. It was a young dog, so condions you requested does not
apply, but I thought I'd report some favorable response to the chemo.

  #6  
Old April 7th 08, 05:59 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Kathleen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 942
Default Need a reality check: my dog has cancer.

lavachickie wrote:

Thanks to those who have responded. I'm comfortable with the fact that
whatever is chosen, I'll have to live with it. I just wish there were
more INFORMATION available, like there is for human cancer!

My message was so detailed I think my point got lost. Let me retry:
has anyone out there had an older dog who is showing signs of weakness
and illness due to this type of cancer who is in a late stage (IV or
V) who has chosen chemotherapy? What was the outcome, both in time
gained, the process, etc?

Amy



I don't know what stage was diagnosed but I know someone whose
female BC survived lymphoma for more than 5 years by taking IV chemo
every other week. She died at age 15.
The vet was of the opinion that although the disease was incurable
given the currently available technology,it could be managed, like diabetes.

 




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