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#1
April 17th 08, 03:29 PM
posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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OT- telemarketing
Once again, I'm coming to you folks because y'all know everything.
A year ago I bought a Wilson Quarterly magazine in a bookstore. I thought I'd like to subscribe. I filled out the card that came in the magazine. Instead of subscribing as "Julia," I gave my first name as "Wilson." That's so I can trace how my name gets sold from one mailing list to another. I can see what sort of junk mail starts coming for "Wilson Altshuler." (Many years ago Ms. Magazine sold my name to Victoria Secret. I've always gotten a kick out of that.) It asked for my credit card number, but I knew that's a bad way to pay for magazines because it's too easy for them to make a "mistake" and decide you wanted to renew and charge your number again. That leaves me with the bureaucratic hassle of telling the card company that it's an unauthorized charge. They asked for my phone number, but I didn't want them calling me at home for any reason so I declined to give it. I paid by check. The check cleared, and I started getting the magazine. No problem. A few months went by, and I started getting renewal notices in the mail. I chose to ignore them. That's partly because I like to subscribe to one magazine for a while, then switch to something else. That's also because I like to wait until the subscription is over before signing up for another year. If you renew too soon, they often short you on magazines. Yesterday a telemarketer phoned the house and asked for Wilson. Jim got the call. The telemarketer wanted to know if I wanted to renew. How the hell did he get my number? It goes without saying that I'd never give money again to any business that would harass me at home. But how did he get the number? He didn't even have my correct name. There must have been some way for him to look up my address and get the landline number from that. Which database? Is that even legal? I know that telemarketing calls are supposed to be legal if the target and the company have done business before, but this wasn't a collection call. We've talked about privacy before and unfounded fears of stalking. I'm not afraid of stalking from madmen on the net, but I deeply detest stalking from businesses that want bother me at home. How do I remove my number from the database if I can figure out which one it is? Better yet, how can I determine which businesses would do such a thing BEFORE I give them money the first time? --Lia 
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#2
April 17th 08, 03:39 PM
posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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OT- telemarketing
On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:29:28 -0400, Julia Altshuler
wrote: How the hell did he get my number? Probably from a reverse lookup directory. They had your address, and matched it to a phone number. -- Handsome "Jack" Morrison Something you don't see very often. No, it wasn't photoshopped. http://picasaweb.google.com/handsome...on/GoCardinals Barack Obama: A Living Lie. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...iving_lie.html Another really good video regarding how to adjust your mirrors *correctly*: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Eqgl...eature=related Canadian Human Rights Commission official: "Freedom of speech is an American concept, so I don't give it any value." http://www.classicalvalues.com/archi..._happen_3.html Well, that didn't take long. Los Angeles considers "global warming" tax. http://www.desertdispatch.com/opinio...rming_tax.html A book that every American should read (and NYT #1 bestseller): Liberal Fascism, by Jonah Goldberg http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascis.../dp/0385511841
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#3
April 17th 08, 03:39 PM
posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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OT- telemarketing
In article ,
Julia Altshuler wrote: There must have been some way for him to look up my address and get the landline number from that. Li-barians would tell you that directories to look up phone numbers from addresses have been around for decades, or they would if you asked one. But now there are these newfangled things called "computers" that have these even newer things called "databases" that can do the lookups in a fraction of a second without the operator/telemarketer even having to initiate it. It's legal. You can do the same lookups online, yourself. How do I remove my number from the database if I can figure out which one it is? You can't, really. When you purchase a service or product you're agreeing to let them contact you. You could try asking them to put you on a do-not-call list but I'm not sure that they're obliged to if you're a customer. Privacy is pretty much dead. They (for whatever value of "they") can do amazing things with automated sensors that you'd never expect. American passports now have an RFID chip in them, and while the data are relatively strongly encrypted someone walking around in a public place with a scanner could still tell that you're carrying an American passport and therefore are American. I was at a conference a few months ago in which there were a number of papers on sensor networks and privacy, including one on what "they" can figure out from monitoring changes in a room's temperature even if they have no other way of finding out what's going on in there. I'm still not sure why you don't bother to look this stuff up for yourself. -- Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
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#5
April 17th 08, 04:03 PM
posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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OT- telemarketing
On 2008-04-17 10:39:42 -0400, (Melinda Shore) said:
You could try asking them to put you on a do-not-call list but I'm not sure that they're obliged to if you're a customer. They are not obliged to comply with your request, unless of course, they are smart.
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#6
April 17th 08, 04:08 PM
posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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OT- telemarketing
In article 2008041711034250878-montana@wildhackcominvalid,
montana wildhack wrote: They are not obliged to comply with your request, unless of course, they are smart. Companies tend not to act against their own economic interests. They wouldn't be doing this if they didn't come out ahead. One of the benefits (to them) of this technology is that the marginal costs of each individual call are negligible and they can get a very, very low response rate and still come out ahead. Eventually they'll be better at identifying consumers who are likely to respond, but consider just how much of what kind of data they'll need to achieve that. -- Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
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#7
April 17th 08, 04:13 PM
posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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OT- telemarketing
In article 2008041711034250878-montana@wildhackcominvalid,
montana wildhack wrote: They are not obliged to comply with your request, unless of course, they are smart. BTW, not to be obvious but it's an election season. If all this bothers you, Call up candidates and bug them about data privacy. Personally, I think medical data and personal financial data are a bigger deal, but it's all sort of a problem. -- Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
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#8
April 17th 08, 04:15 PM
posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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OT- telemarketing
Julia Altshuler wrote:
How the hell did he get my number? Looking up your name and state in an online directory. Go he http://anywho.com and type in your name and state, and if your land-line phone number is listed, it should find you. It doesn't even need your address. How do I remove my number from the database if I can figure out which one it is? Get a (new) unlisted land-line phone number. Better yet, how can I determine which businesses would do such a thing BEFORE I give them money the first time? Ask them? The aspect of telemarketing that bugs me is that while I have placed my name on the national do-not-call list, it only applies to companies that WANT to do business with me, with whom I have no prior business relationship. If I already have a business relationship with them (like your magazine subscription), they are free to call me for 18 months after my last transaction with them. http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/donotcall/ http://www.law.northwestern.edu/journals/njtip/v3/n1/2/ And then not-for-profit organizations (including political organizations) are exempt from the law - as we are all painfully aware in this silly season. FurPaw -- "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower To reply, unleash the dogs.
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#9
April 17th 08, 04:17 PM
posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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OT- telemarketing
FurPaw wrote:
Julia Altshuler wrote: How the hell did he get my number? last Looking up your ^^^^ name and state in an online directory. Go he http://anywho.com and type in your name and state, and if your land-line phone number is listed, it should find you. It doesn't even need your address. -- "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower To reply, unleash the dogs.
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#10
April 17th 08, 05:07 PM
posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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OT- telemarketing
"Handsome Jack Morrison" wrote in message ... On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:29:28 -0400, Julia Altshuler wrote: How the hell did he get my number? Probably from a reverse lookup directory. They had your address, and matched it to a phone number. -- Handsome "Jack" Morrison Exactly. When I worked in the library years ago, I was surprised that they kept these directories for years and years. I could look up addresses or people from years before and see where they lived, what their phone number was, etc. Long before the time of computers. My husband always uses his work phone number when one is required. You might want to try something like that. Once they had your check and address to send the magazine to, voila. td
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