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Pinging BigPhil and Biff theJack



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 3rd 08, 12:06 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
\(the\)duckster
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Posts: 326
Default Pinging BigPhil and Biff theJack

I have been thinking about you two and wondering if you've started puppy
classes yet. If you have, let us know how they are going, who is in your
class, all that. Thank you!

Kind regards,
(the)duckster


  #2  
Old June 3rd 08, 05:52 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Phil Odox
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Posts: 109
Default Pinging BigPhil and Biff theJack

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:06:54 GMT, "\(the\)duckster" wrote:

I have been thinking about you two and wondering if you've started puppy
classes yet. If you have, let us know how they are going, who is in your
class, all that. Thank you!

Kind regards,
(the)duckster


I've been to two classes already without my dog to see how
they're conducted, how many dogs attend, and to have a chat
with the people who run them. The first class I visited only had
4 dogs there, and they were all rescued adults with "problems".
I agreed with the class instructor that rescued "problem" dogs
need a lot of training to bring them round, but I didn't agree
that that training included shouting and a lot of tugging on the
lead. When I asked if it would be better to calmly issue the
command "No" and stand in front of a pulling dog instead of
yanking on its lead after shouting at it, she merely repeated that
"problem" dogs require a lot of training. Ahem. The next class
was no better. The woman who was instructing it was actually
standing on the lead of a large boxer nearly the whole time I was
talking to her so that it couldn't get up or into the sitting position.
As I approached her she barked, "DOWN", and while it was
considering what to do she lifted her foot and stood on its lead,
leaving about 18" of it sticking out from under her foot. I could
tell that the dog was in some kind of distress, so I left without
asking her very much at all. I must admit that I did have some
fears before going, that I'd be disappointed, and so I've decided
to train my pup myself in the way I see as fit. We've made a lot
of progress already. He walks well with a collar and lead, and he
occasionally sits down when I tell him. Of course, doing it in the
quiet surroundings of a fenced garden away from traffic is always
going to be easy compared to doing it on the streets. His house-
training is going really well without a single incident since Saturday.
Even his humping seems to have settled down. The "no" command
seems to be sinking in as a universal command for "Freeze, you
little bugger."
  #3  
Old June 3rd 08, 06:02 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
tiny dancer[_3_]
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Posts: 828
Default Pinging BigPhil and Biff theJack


"Phil Odox" wrote in message
...
snipped

We've made a lot
of progress already. He walks well with a collar and lead, and he
occasionally sits down when I tell him. Of course, doing it in the
quiet surroundings of a fenced garden away from traffic is always
going to be easy compared to doing it on the streets. His house-
training is going really well without a single incident since Saturday.
Even his humping seems to have settled down. The "no" command
seems to be sinking in as a universal command for "Freeze, you
little bugger."



Just curious Phil, are you familiar with Victoria Stilwell? I've watched
her program some on Animal Planet.

http://animal.discovery.com/converge...r-the-dog.html


td


  #4  
Old June 3rd 08, 06:22 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Phil Odox
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Posts: 109
Default Pinging BigPhil and Biff theJack

On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 13:02:24 -0400, "tiny dancer" wrote:
"Phil Odox" wrote:
snipped

We've made a lot
of progress already. He walks well with a collar and lead, and he
occasionally sits down when I tell him. Of course, doing it in the
quiet surroundings of a fenced garden away from traffic is always
going to be easy compared to doing it on the streets. His house-
training is going really well without a single incident since Saturday.
Even his humping seems to have settled down. The "no" command
seems to be sinking in as a universal command for "Freeze, you
little bugger."



Just curious Phil, are you familiar with Victoria Stilwell? I've watched
her program some on Animal Planet.

http://animal.discovery.com/converge...r-the-dog.html


No, I'm not familiar with her at all. She's not one of those people
who chase a dog who's scared of brooms around the garden with
a broom until he gives in, is she?
  #5  
Old June 3rd 08, 06:31 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Mary Healey[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 156
Default Pinging BigPhil and Biff theJack

Phil Odox wrote:
The woman who was instructing it was actually
standing on the lead of a large boxer nearly the whole time I was
talking to her so that it couldn't get up or into the sitting
position. As I approached her she barked, "DOWN", and while it was
considering what to do she lifted her foot and stood on its lead,
leaving about 18" of it sticking out from under her foot.


You'd prefer to catch a large leaping Boxer as it launches itself into your
arms? "Sit" is just another word for "spring-loaded" when it comes to some
of the more gregarious canines, and getting clocked by a Boxer's brainbox
*hurts* no matter how happily the beastie intended to greet you.

I could tell that the dog was in some kind of distress,


Self-control doesn't come pre-installed, you know. Ranger was "in some
kind of distress" this weekend when I made him hold a down-stay (and, yes,
I had to use the hand I put on his collar) while Duke went around
collecting his spilled dinner. Alternately, I might have let him fail to
hold the stay on his own, which would have resulted in a beat-up Labrador
(or a fight) and an overfed, piggy ACD with delusions of grandeur far above
his lot in life.

I must admit that I did have some
fears before going, that I'd be disappointed,


First, puppy training is conducted quite differently than training in a
group of normal adult dogs. Problem dogs are a different category
altogether.

Second, the phrase "self-fulfilling prophecy" pretty well describes your
experience.


--
Mary & the depleted Ames National Zoo
(Ranger, Duke, Rhia-cat)
  #6  
Old June 3rd 08, 06:39 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
tiny dancer[_3_]
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Posts: 828
Default Pinging BigPhil and Biff theJack


"Phil Odox" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 13:02:24 -0400, "tiny dancer"
wrote:
"Phil Odox" wrote:
snipped



Just curious Phil, are you familiar with Victoria Stilwell? I've watched
her program some on Animal Planet.

http://animal.discovery.com/converge...r-the-dog.html


No, I'm not familiar with her at all. She's not one of those people
who chase a dog who's scared of brooms around the garden with
a broom until he gives in, is she?




http://www.victoriastilwell.com/bio


She doesn't appear to be in the programs I've watched. She seems to have a
far more calm approach to dogs. I enjoy watching her program. All the
episodes I've seen have been filmed in England. I don't think she's filmed
any in the states.

td


  #7  
Old June 3rd 08, 06:40 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
shelly
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Posts: 6,155
Default Pinging BigPhil and Biff theJack

Mary Healey wrote:

You'd prefer to catch a large leaping Boxer as it launches itself into your
arms? "Sit" is just another word for "spring-loaded" when it comes to some
of the more gregarious canines,


Some of the more gregarious canines are hiding rocket boosters in
their feet.

Watching the expressions on my neighbors' faces when they saw how
high a 9 year old Boxer could jump from a dead calm sit? Priceless.
Yeah, spring-loaded is one word for it.

and getting clocked by a Boxer's brainbox
*hurts* no matter how happily the beastie intended to greet you.


Actually, the happier, the hurtier.

Self-control doesn't come pre-installed, you know.


As distresses go, foot-on-lead is not, I think, high on the list. I
mean, the dog does have some say in whether or not she gets a
correction and how harsh it is.

Besides, if you asked Harriet to rank the things that distress her,
I would bet that "not allowed to eat tasty bunny" would be at the
top of her list, followed closely by "not allowed to eat human's PB&J."

Second, the phrase "self-fulfilling prophecy" pretty well describes your
experience.


I think he found exactly what he was looking for.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
  #8  
Old June 3rd 08, 06:48 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Phil Odox
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 109
Default Pinging BigPhil and Biff theJack

On 3 Jun 2008 17:31:00 GMT, Mary Healey wrote:
Phil Odox wrote:

The woman who was instructing it was actually
standing on the lead of a large boxer nearly the whole time I was
talking to her so that it couldn't get up or into the sitting
position. As I approached her she barked, "DOWN", and while it was
considering what to do she lifted her foot and stood on its lead,
leaving about 18" of it sticking out from under her foot.


You'd prefer to catch a large leaping Boxer as it launches itself into your
arms? "Sit" is just another word for "spring-loaded" when it comes to some
of the more gregarious canines, and getting clocked by a Boxer's brainbox
*hurts* no matter how happily the beastie intended to greet you.


There are other ways of controlling a boisterous dog without
having to stand on his lead to keep his head so close to the
ground. It wasn't even that boisterous; just pleased to see me
as I approached them.

I could tell that the dog was in some kind of distress,


Self-control doesn't come pre-installed, you know.


I'm sorry, but it does, by definition.

Ranger was "in some
kind of distress" this weekend when I made him hold a down-stay (and, yes,
I had to use the hand I put on his collar) while Duke went around
collecting his spilled dinner. Alternately, I might have let him fail to
hold the stay on his own, which would have resulted in a beat-up Labrador
(or a fight) and an overfed, piggy ACD with delusions of grandeur far above
his lot in life.

I must admit that I did have some
fears before going, that I'd be disappointed,


First, puppy training is conducted quite differently than training in a
group of normal adult dogs. Problem dogs are a different category
altogether.

Second, the phrase "self-fulfilling prophecy" pretty well describes your
experience.


  #9  
Old June 3rd 08, 06:54 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
shelly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,155
Default Pinging BigPhil and Biff theJack

Phil Odox wrote:

There are other ways of controlling a boisterous dog without
having to stand on his lead to keep his head so close to the
ground. It wasn't even that boisterous; just pleased to see me
as I approached them.


Eighteen inches isn't particularly low to the ground.

I'm sorry, but it does, by definition.


Good lord! I can guarantee you that Boxers do not generally come
pre-loaded with self control, nor do they tend to exercise it much
when they *do* finally develop some.

I think you misunderstand the nature of self control, if you think
it's something inborn.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
  #10  
Old June 3rd 08, 06:56 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
\(the\)duckster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 326
Default Pinging BigPhil and Biff theJack


"Phil Odox" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:06:54 GMT, "\(the\)duckster"

wrote:

I have been thinking about you two and wondering if you've started puppy
classes yet. If you have, let us know how they are going, who is in your
class, all that. Thank you!

Kind regards,
(the)duckster


I've been to two classes already without my dog to see how
they're conducted, how many dogs attend, and to have a chat
with the people who run them. The first class I visited only had
4 dogs there, and they were all rescued adults with "problems".
I agreed with the class instructor that rescued "problem" dogs
need a lot of training to bring them round, but I didn't agree
that that training included shouting and a lot of tugging on the
lead. When I asked if it would be better to calmly issue the
command "No" and stand in front of a pulling dog instead of
yanking on its lead after shouting at it, she merely repeated that
"problem" dogs require a lot of training. Ahem. The next class
was no better. The woman who was instructing it was actually
standing on the lead of a large boxer nearly the whole time I was
talking to her so that it couldn't get up or into the sitting position.
As I approached her she barked, "DOWN", and while it was
considering what to do she lifted her foot and stood on its lead,
leaving about 18" of it sticking out from under her foot. I could
tell that the dog was in some kind of distress, so I left without
asking her very much at all. I must admit that I did have some
fears before going, that I'd be disappointed, and so I've decided
to train my pup myself in the way I see as fit. We've made a lot
of progress already. He walks well with a collar and lead, and he
occasionally sits down when I tell him. Of course, doing it in the
quiet surroundings of a fenced garden away from traffic is always
going to be easy compared to doing it on the streets. His house-
training is going really well without a single incident since Saturday.
Even his humping seems to have settled down. The "no" command
seems to be sinking in as a universal command for "Freeze, you
little bugger."


I am so sorry that your two experiences went badly. Adult rescues do require
a bit of different training than a baby.

Does your local Dog Training Club not have puppy classes? If not, I'd
search around. Ours here are every so much fun. Especially after class
when they all get turned loose in the room for a romp.

Or perhaps a JackRussell group? They might meet around on their own and
could point you to a puppy group.

I train my own as well at home, but always so enjoyed the socialization of
the classes. In fact, our BodiePup is on his third class, taking beginning
agility. I am proud to say that he and my daughter were being used in last
week's (second class) as the example. He's through the tunnel, up and down
the ramp, sitting quietly on the table, trotting over ground poles (wait
till they see the rascal jump) and generally having a good time.

Sorry again to know it, but thanks so much for checking back. Do hope
you'll post again - especially with pictures.

Kind regards,
(the)duckster


 




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