I really need to sort through this experience (with hopefully some feedback)
so please bear with me as this is going to be quite long

Thursday night my daughter and I went to the park where she is being married
in September to take some measurements and decide some placement issues.
Walking down the walkway we spotted a cat over in the grass just lying
there. When we got close to it was eating grass and appeared to want to
vomit and had some occasionally some sneezing and it's eyes appeared to be
weepy and it was somewhat bloated) The fact that it didn't run away or move
when we first approached led me to believe it was sick. It did eventually
get up and go under a porch while meowing at us with a rather strange meow.
It did eventually come out and allowed it to pet it (while still being
extremely wary) and it started to purr and do the rubbing against things.
We discovered it was an intact male and my daughter and I discussed what we
should do. It could have been from the surrounding area although highly
unlikely as the nearest house was quite a distance. We waited to see what he
would do as we took our measurements and did what we came to do. As we
started to walk away (while watching him) he started to follow us. I
couldn't in good conscience leave him there so although I knew it would be a
tough sell at home (we already have two indoor cats, two outdoor cats and a
dog) I coaxed him into the car. By the time we got home (a half hour away)
he was a little freaked but not to bad. I fed him some chicken on the way
home and gave him some cat food although I didn't want to overdo it since I
didn't know how long it had been since he really ate. I put him in one of
the sheds with a cat litter pan and some water. I wanted to keep him away
from the outside cats until I could get to the vet and have him tested. The
outside cats are kept in the garage at night so in the morning I let them
out and checked on the stray and gave him more food. He was pretty hungry
but he kept checking to see how to get around me and get out as he was
eating. I did that several times during the day giving him small amounts
each time. He actually seemed rather friendly but definitely did not like to
be handled. That night I put our cats away and I could tell that he was
getting way to antsy and I would never be able to take him to the vet the
next day if I kept him cooped up any longer so I took my chances and let him
out. I kept food and water in the shed with the door open. He scoped out
the area but each time I shook the food dish he came back to the shed. I
went inside but checked on him several times during the next few hours.
Around 10:00 he seemed freaked out and on the lookout for predators as he
was reacting to all the night noises so I put him back in the shed for the
night with the intention of letting him out in the morning until my
appointment at 11:30. When I went out to let him out at 8:00 he was already
out! I don't know how the little **** did it but he did. So I fed him again
and checked on several more times (I kept our cats in the garage all day)
When it was time to take him I didn't think I would be able to get him in a
carrier so I picked him up and was going to keep him in my lap while my
husband dropped us off. My mistake was not throwing a towel over him first
(he got my hand and arm). The next try I got the towel over him and off we
went. He was a little hard to handle at the vets but he was still purring.
In fact the vet said she was having a hard time listening to his murmur due
to the purring. She took him in back to draw his blood. Unfortunately he
had AIDS. That wasn't even on my radar, I was thinking possibly feluk.
Since I couldn't risk exposing my cats I decided to have him put down -
that's when the horror began. She gave him a sedative that she said would
take about 10-15 minutes to work. She came back in and I held off a front
vein but she was having trouble finding one and he was fighting it. She
then tried a back one and again no luck. So she went and got another
sedative (forgot the name) that she said she was trying not to give him
because it would make him vomit. It did and for the next 45 minutes to an
hour I tried to hold him and pet him which he tolerated for a bit but he
then wanted down. I watched him stumble around the room until he found a
spot to collapse then I would go pet him there until I would try to again
put him in my lap or on the table and pet him until he wanted down again.
We repeated this cycle several times. It was heartbreaking to watch him. She
*finally* came in and tried to give him in the injection in a rear leg then
a front one, still having trouble finding a vein. Once in he continued to
breath and she mentioned that some but not much of the 2ccs had gone outside
the vein. We waited several minutes for it "to circulate" (her words). She
then asked me since he was sedated if I would be okay with an injection to
his heart. At this point I was wishing I had taken him home and let my
husband 'put him down'. It would have been
a hell of a lot quicker and less painful for the poor thing. I used to work
for a vet 30+ years ago and have held off many a vein for a euthanasia and I
have never experienced something like this. What the hell happened??? I
feel terrible and have been crying about it
ever since. This poor thing trusted me and look what I put him through. I
know I couldn't have foreseen this but that doesn't lessen the pain and hurt
I feel. I can't even imagine if this had happened to a long time pet. Was
this vet error? Something that just 'happens' occasionally? Did it have
something to do with his condition? His being a feral tom cat? Something
else? I don't know enough about these things to know what to think. This
was a new vet I was 'trying out'. I really need to figure this out. Until
I can though, I think fairly or unfairly to the vet in question, I will
probably try out one or two different vets before settling on a permanent
one. With 5 animals I can try out a few different ones without too much
trouble. Any thoughts?

Kathy

"kat" wrote in
net:

That night I put our cats
away and I could tell that he was getting way to antsy and I would
never be able to take him to the vet the next day if I kept him
cooped up any longer so I took my chances and let him out.

I don't understand your reasoning. Surely it's better to have a
pissed off cat than risk him coming in contact with your animals? Or
your neighbors' animals?

When it was time to take him I didn't think I would be able to get
him in a carrier so I picked him up and was going to keep him in
my lap while my husband dropped us off.

Not being critical, but lordy! If I couldn't get a cat into a
carrier, there's no way I'd want to have it loose in the car. If
they get balky, I grab them by the scruff, hoist them in the air,
then shove them into the up-ended carrier. It's not pretty, but it
gets the job done quickly, which I think lessens the overall stress
level for everyone.

He was a little hard to
handle at the vets but he was still purring.

Purring can mean contentment, but it can also be a stress response.
Under the circumstances, I'm betting it was the latter.

Was this vet error? Something that just 'happens' occasionally?
Did it have something to do with his condition?

My one and only experience having a cat put to sleep was not unlike
what you went through. It was hard to watch, but I felt worse for
the vet than I did for myself. **** happens, even to good vets.

His being a feral tom cat?

Well, if he let you pick him up, rode in a car with you, let you
handle him, and came back when you let him out of the shed, I can
pretty much guarantee you he wasn't feral.

Cats are often skittish, even well socialized ones. And when they're
out in the open, like he was, that can make them even more wary and
shy. If he had actually been feral, you'd likely be missing large
parts of your hide, assuming you could have gotten near him in the
first place.

That said, he may well have been someone's barn cat or pet that was
dumped or wandering. Toms'll do that. If he'd been on his own for
awhile, he might have been more skittish than normal. If he'd been a
pet, he might have been craving attention to the point of letting his
social needs override his natural instinct to stay away from
strangers.

With 5 animals I can try out a few different ones without too much
trouble. Any thoughts?

There's nothing wrong with trying out different vets, if that's your
question. I've "fired" vets for crappy service. The vet who put
down my cat, though, was young and obviously felt horrible about how
long it took, so I don't blame him. I'd probably give him a second
chance.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

"Shelly" wrote in message
1...
"kat" wrote in
net:

That night I put our cats
away and I could tell that he was getting way to antsy and I would
never be able to take him to the vet the next day if I kept him
cooped up any longer so I took my chances and let him out.

I don't understand your reasoning. Surely it's better to have a
pissed off cat than risk him coming in contact with your animals?

Mine were put away. The neighbors don't seem to care about theirs. I think
three of the cats I currently have were originally from over their way as
well as two others that frequent my yard. I was trying to be gentle with the
cat and gain his trust. Not **** him off further.

Or
your neighbors' animals?

When it was time to take him I didn't think I would be able to get
him in a carrier so I picked him up and was going to keep him in
my lap while my husband dropped us off.

Not being critical, but lordy! If I couldn't get a cat into a
carrier, there's no way I'd want to have it loose in the car.


True but this vet is literally only three minutes from my house even though
I know something could conceiveably happen even in that short distance.

they get balky, I grab them by the scruff, hoist them in the air,
then shove them into the up-ended carrier. It's not pretty, but it
gets the job done quickly, which I think lessens the overall stress
level for everyone.

I was trying to make it as stress free and agitate him as little aspossible
both getting him into the car and when the vet needed to handle him.


He was a little hard to
handle at the vets but he was still purring.

Purring can mean contentment, but it can also be a stress response.
Under the circumstances, I'm betting it was the latter.

Was this vet error? Something that just 'happens' occasionally?
Did it have something to do with his condition?

My one and only experience having a cat put to sleep was not unlike
what you went through. It was hard to watch, but I felt worse for
the vet than I did for myself. **** happens, even to good vets.


I've held a fair number of cats and also held my grandmother's cat as she
was put to sleep and I've never had this happen.

His being a feral tom cat?

Well, if he let you pick him up, rode in a car with you, let you
handle him, and came back when you let him out of the shed, I can
pretty much guarantee you he wasn't feral.

Yes wrong choice of words.


Cats are often skittish, even well socialized ones. And when they're
out in the open, like he was, that can make them even more wary and
shy. If he had actually been feral, you'd likely be missing large
parts of your hide, assuming you could have gotten near him in the
first place.

That said, he may well have been someone's barn cat or pet that was
dumped or wandering. Toms'll do that. If he'd been on his own for
awhile, he might have been more skittish than normal. If he'd been a
pet, he might have been craving attention to the point of letting his
social needs override his natural instinct to stay away from
strangers.

The vet seemed to think he had been out there awhile. He had broken teeth
(one with a nerve exposed), an abcess, etc.


With 5 animals I can try out a few different ones without too much
trouble. Any thoughts?

There's nothing wrong with trying out different vets, if that's your
question.

No actually I was trying to figure out what caused it to go down the way it
did. Did she not give enough sedative? Were there contributing factors
that caused the delay, etc.

Kathy

kat wrote:
Was
this vet error? Something that just 'happens' occasionally?

According to my regular vet, it sometimes happens, although it's
pretty rare. And pretty awful for both the human and pet to have
to go through.

I haven't wanted to write about it, but Chile's euthanasia went
badly. The vet who was working the morning we took her in is new
and inexperienced. She tried to put a catheter into Chile's
veins, twice, but the veins both collapsed. At that point I
insisted on a sedative, and so she gave her a big honking dose of
Ace, which did knock her out. (Not for futu INSIST on a
sedative first. Even though it hadn't been necessary for two
prior chihuahuas. In your case, even the sedative didn't seem to
work - bigger dose needed in an animal with high adrenaline
levels?) After 20 minutes the euthanasia injection had slowed
but not stopped Chile's heart, and she ended up giving Chile an
injection directly in the heart. Chile was unconscious through
all of this. Hubster and I weren't, although we managed to hold
it together; letting out the silent scream would have just made
everything worse for all concerned.

The on-call vet also felt awful, and was practically in tears
herself. They didn't charge us for the euthanasia, and I didn't
have to ask.

I hope it never happens to you and your animal again. Or me, or
anyone else.

FurPaw

--
The plural of anecdote is not proof.

To reply, unleash the dog.

"FurPaw" wrote in message
...
kat wrote:
Was
this vet error? Something that just 'happens' occasionally?

According to my regular vet, it sometimes happens, although it's
pretty rare. And pretty awful for both the human and pet to have
to go through.

I haven't wanted to write about it, but Chile's euthanasia went
badly. The vet who was working the morning we took her in is new
and inexperienced. She tried to put a catheter into Chile's
veins, twice, but the veins both collapsed. At that point I
insisted on a sedative, and so she gave her a big honking dose of
Ace, which did knock her out. (Not for futu INSIST on a
sedative first. Even though it hadn't been necessary for two
prior chihuahuas. In your case, even the sedative didn't seem to
work - bigger dose needed in an animal with high adrenaline
levels?)

Good point.



After 20 minutes the euthanasia injection had slowed
but not stopped Chile's heart, and she ended up giving Chile an
injection directly in the heart.

Wow that seems like a long time to wait.

Chile was unconscious through
all of this. Hubster and I weren't, although we managed to hold
it together; letting out the silent scream would have just made
everything worse for all concerned.

Yes I definitely relate to the urge to scream. 'Latte' we had already named
him was what I would call semi-conscious when she tried to inject. His tail
was still occasionally still thumping and his back legs moved somewhat.



The on-call vet also felt awful, and was practically in tears
herself. They didn't charge us for the euthanasia, and I didn't
have to ask.


Didn't seem to be a problem - $140 later for a cat I had less than 48
hours..


I hope it never happens to you and your animal again. Or me, or
anyone else.

I'm so sorry this happened to you. It was much worse imo for you given that
it happened to a beloved pet. The only saving grace for me, is that I will
insist on a large dose of sedative (mentioning this incident in the process)
if I'm faced with this again and that he is not infecting other cats or
possibly children or other people. It still hurts though. I had his blood
tested for the bacteria carried by fleas. Can't think of the name of it
offhand and am too tired to go find the literature she gave me. She said
there is a 40-50% chance he is infected with it and since I was scratched I
wanted to know for sure. I wonder if I should have just walked away. . .

Kathy

In article ,
"kat" wrote:

I used to work
for a vet 30+ years ago and have held off many a vein for a euthanasia and I
have never experienced something like this. What the hell happened??? I
feel terrible and have been crying about it
ever since.

Why a vein for the sedative? I just put a cat down. The sedative was
not in a vein and granted, my kitty didn't have a lot to fight with, but
she fell asleep quickly and the fatal injection was not felt in the
least, and she passed easily.

His being a feral tom cat?

He may have been a tom, but he was not feral. You handled him. And
euthanasia was the right answer.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

In article ,
FurPaw wrote:

(Not for futu INSIST on a
sedative first. Even though it hadn't been necessary for two
prior chihuahuas.

I've only had to do this 3 times. Once, the dog was already out because
of surgery. The other 2 times, a sedative was given first. I can't
imagine not doing that.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 21:06:00 -0600, FurPaw
wrote:


After 20 minutes the euthanasia injection had slowed
but not stopped Chile's heart, and she ended up giving Chile an
injection directly in the heart.

This is a problem with sedatives before euthanasia, and why my vet
generally does not give one, although other vets in the practice do.

Mustang Sally

Janet Boss wrote:
He may have been a tom, but he was not feral. You handled him. And
euthanasia was the right answer.

It would have been a better answer coming from the actual owner(s) of the
animal, and not a well-intentioned stranger.

In article ,
M Healey wrote:


It would have been a better answer coming from the actual owner(s) of the
animal, and not a well-intentioned stranger.

You're absolutely right, but at the point where one finds out what is
wrong with him, what is the answer? Letting him free again is not a
good answer. Finding the home may be futile.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com