Sunday afternoon my mom's dog had a grand mal seizure. She had him in
the shower stall and was giving him a bath when he collapsed. He
experienced jerking of the limbs, head and neck, however did not lose
control of bowels or bladder. After the seizure ended he was so still
and was breathing so shallowly that she had to put her ear to his chest
to see if he was alive.

Laddy is a nine year old male border collie, neutered, with no history
of health problems other than being tremendously overweight. There was
no way mom could lift him by herself so she put a towel under his head
so she could throw some clothes on and run next door for help. By the
time she was dressed he was on his feet, but quite wobbly.

She rushed him to the emergency clinic where he was given valium and
admitted for overnight observation. No additional seizures have been
observed.

She told me yesterday that her regular vet said that "these things only
get worse with time and that eventually he is going to die from it."
WTF?!!! I thought epilepsy was a relatively manageable disorder. They
are running blood work but mom has opted against a CT scan of the head.
Could she have somehow misheard this extremely grim prognosis? Isn't
it awfully early to be assuming that this is a death sentence?

Kathleen wrote:
Sunday afternoon my mom's dog had a grand mal seizure. She had him in
the shower stall and was giving him a bath when he collapsed. He
experienced jerking of the limbs, head and neck, however did not lose
control of bowels or bladder. After the seizure ended he was so still
and was breathing so shallowly that she had to put her ear to his chest
to see if he was alive.

Laddy is a nine year old male border collie, neutered, with no history
of health problems other than being tremendously overweight. There was
no way mom could lift him by herself so she put a towel under his head
so she could throw some clothes on and run next door for help. By the
time she was dressed he was on his feet, but quite wobbly.

She rushed him to the emergency clinic where he was given valium and
admitted for overnight observation. No additional seizures have been
observed.

She told me yesterday that her regular vet said that "these things only
get worse with time and that eventually he is going to die from it."
WTF?!!! I thought epilepsy was a relatively manageable disorder. They
are running blood work but mom has opted against a CT scan of the head.
Could she have somehow misheard this extremely grim prognosis? Isn't
it awfully early to be assuming that this is a death sentence?


Did the vet say it was a grand mal seizure, or was that your mother's
description? Did the vet say it was epilepsy? I believe you are
correct that epilepsy is normally a manageable disorder. I also believe
it is possible for other things to cause jerking and collapse. Genny
got something like that when she was dying of kidney failure. I'd say
to wait until the doctor has done all the tests and can tell you
something more. Then ask the usual questions about medicine, treatment,
length of life, quality of life, etc. (and helping the poor dog lose
some weight).


--Lia

You are right this can be managed

I would your mom to see another vet and sign up at some of the yahoo groups
for dog epilepsy they are a great resource.

Celeste

"Kathleen" wrote in message
...
Sunday afternoon my mom's dog had a grand mal seizure. She had him in the
shower stall and was giving him a bath when he collapsed. He experienced
jerking of the limbs, head and neck, however did not lose control of
bowels or bladder. After the seizure ended he was so still and was
breathing so shallowly that she had to put her ear to his chest to see if
he was alive.

Laddy is a nine year old male border collie, neutered, with no history of
health problems other than being tremendously overweight. There was no
way mom could lift him by herself so she put a towel under his head so she
could throw some clothes on and run next door for help. By the time she
was dressed he was on his feet, but quite wobbly.

She rushed him to the emergency clinic where he was given valium and
admitted for overnight observation. No additional seizures have been
observed.

She told me yesterday that her regular vet said that "these things only
get worse with time and that eventually he is going to die from it."
WTF?!!! I thought epilepsy was a relatively manageable disorder. They
are running blood work but mom has opted against a CT scan of the head.
Could she have somehow misheard this extremely grim prognosis? Isn't it
awfully early to be assuming that this is a death sentence?

On 2008-10-02 08:42:46 -0400, Kathleen said:

Isn't it awfully early to be assuming that this is a death sentence?

I'd want a second opinion.

In article ,
Kathleen wrote:
Isn't
it awfully early to be assuming that this is a death sentence?

Yes. Seizures aren't a disease, they're a symptom. A
single seizure can mean there's something extremely serious
going on or it can mean that the dog ate something that
triggered a seizure (Image had a single seizure after eating
moose poop - hadn't had one before, hasn't had one since).
In fact, I'm pretty surprised that the emergency clinic
admitted the dog and administered valium after only one
seizure.

At this point you don't know if the dog would be clustering
without the drug and you don't know if she'd have even
another isolated seizure and you don't know what caused the
seizure and basically you don't know much. What I would do
in that situation is keep off the drugs unless there's
another seizure. If there's another seizure find a vet
who's got some interest in finding out what's actually going
on and has the ability to do it.

I had one dog who had a pituitary mass that was causing
cluster seizures. She remained seizure-free once we found
the right combination of drugs, and ultimately it wasn't the
mass (or the seizures) that did her in. I know other dogs
who've had to be put down because they couldn't break out of
the seizure cycle. It really depends.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

(Melinda Shore) said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

What I would do
in that situation is keep off the drugs unless there's
another seizure.

Me, too.

If there's another seizure find a vet
who's got some interest in finding out what's actually going
on and has the ability to do it.

Me, too. And if that vet can explain it clearly, that's a
bonus.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Laddy is a nine year old male border collie, neutered, with no history of
health problems other than being tremendously overweight.

Has he been given any meds recently? (including dewormers)

Ok, just to preface this by saying I know "James Herriot" isn't the greatest
source of veterinary knowledge, but wasn't there a story in there about a
horribly obese pekingese that suffered from seizures as a result of being
overweight? How overweight are we talking here? (I'd be thinking about
running a thyroid panel of some form if you haven't already... how's his
coat? how much food is Laddy getting a day? What kind? Treats? Exercise?
Energy Level?) A quick google search turns up:
http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v1...y2008310a.html


She rushed him to the emergency clinic where he was given valium and
admitted for overnight observation. No additional seizures have been
observed.

Is he still on any meds? I wouldn't be medicating him with anything unless
he has more seizures. Right now, you don't know if this was an isolated
incident or not. Its not a good idea to medicate until you know, because
what ever you put in to him, his system has to deal with, and you risk doing
more harm than good.


She told me yesterday that her regular vet said that "these things only
get worse with time and that eventually he is going to die from it."

This is a rather silly statement. You don't know what he's going to die
from. Yes, seizures can be very serious. Yes, sometimes you can't control
them, and they will eventually result in the death of the animal. *but*
sometimes they are totally isolated incidents (as others have indicated),
and sometimes when they aren't, they are controllable.


WTF?!!! I thought epilepsy was a relatively manageable disorder. They
are running blood work but mom has opted against a CT scan of the head.
Could she have somehow misheard this extremely grim prognosis? Isn't it
awfully early to be assuming that this is a death sentence?

I think he's probably trying to prepare your mom for the worst case scenario
(which might be likely given all the information he has available). My own
course of action if it were my dog would be:

1. Get the blood work done, including some kind of thyroid panel if you
haven't already done so (to possibly explain the obesity...), and look for
anything obvious that the seizure might have been secondary to.

2. Start trying to get some weight off him. (how you do this will depend on
how the blood work comes out). This isn't the easiest thing to do, but
regardless of anything else, it's a good idea. Come up with a meal plan for
him that your mom can live with, and stick to. To do this, you need to know
his daily caloric requirements (your vet should be able to help you with
this). They should be able to give you a weight loss amount, and a
maintenance amount. As long as you stick between those values, he should
loose weight. You can treat him, but try to use things which are lower
calorie (either dedicate a portion of his ration to 'treats' or come up with
a separate low calorie treat...carrots are great).

3. Wait and see. He may never have another seizure, or he may have one
tomorrow, but until you know, its hard to come up with a plan of action. I
wouldn't do the CT scan. If you found something, I don't think there is a
whole lot you could do about it anyways, so its really just money down the
drain. It might give you the answer, but its unlikely to provide a treatment
course (AFAIK)


Good luck, and be sure to keep us up to date.

Dale Atkin

.....wait a minute.... as an aside, can you see brain on a CT scan? how's
that even going to help? or are you thinking MRI?