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Ping Liisa



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 13th 08, 04:37 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.breeds
diddy[_2_]
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Posts: 3,108
Default Ping Liisa

I know you understand coloration of dogs. How about horses?
I saw a white horse today (ok grey) I was not close enough to actually SEE
the skin color.
But the horse appeared a very clear color of white, with black socks to the
knees and hocks. It had a white mane and tail.
I never saw any color of horse like this before.
If it had black socks, I would have expected a black mane and tail. There
was none.
This was not a bleached out buckskin.

Can you explain this?
  #2  
Old October 13th 08, 04:50 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.breeds
Liisa Sarakontu[_2_]
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Posts: 20
Default Ping Liisa

diddy none wrote in :

I know you understand coloration of dogs. How about horses?
I saw a white horse today (ok grey) I was not close enough to actually
SEE the skin color.
But the horse appeared a very clear color of white, with black socks
to the knees and hocks. It had a white mane and tail.
I never saw any color of horse like this before.
If it had black socks, I would have expected a black mane and tail.
There was none.
This was not a bleached out buckskin.


Yep, I know horse colors/patterns too :-) But I'm not sure if I can explain
this properly.

Greys do get pale in very different ways, and it is possible to have
totally white mane and tail and still have colored lower legs - although
solid white body white mane/tail + dark legs is a combination I'm not sure
I've seen.

What about non-spotted appaloosa? They can have nearly solid white body
with darkish lower legs. Homozygous appaloosas normally have no or very few
spots, and when other genes allow the "blanket" to cover all of the horse,
the result can be nearly solid white. Such horses don't normaly have much
dark on legs, just dark fetlocks and perhaps some dark on knees too.

Or what about a grey with very pale base color, like palomino + grey?
Naturally white mane + tail, and that grey gene can turn yellow palomino
coat into dark grey before it goes white.

Liisa

  #3  
Old October 13th 08, 05:03 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.breeds
diddy[_2_]
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Posts: 3,108
Default Ping Liisa

Liisa Sarakontu spoke these words of wisdom in
6:

diddy none wrote in :

I know you understand coloration of dogs. How about horses?
I saw a white horse today (ok grey) I was not close enough to actually
SEE the skin color.
But the horse appeared a very clear color of white, with black socks
to the knees and hocks. It had a white mane and tail.
I never saw any color of horse like this before.
If it had black socks, I would have expected a black mane and tail.
There was none.
This was not a bleached out buckskin.


Yep, I know horse colors/patterns too :-) But I'm not sure if I can
explain this properly.

Greys do get pale in very different ways, and it is possible to have
totally white mane and tail and still have colored lower legs - although
solid white body white mane/tail + dark legs is a combination I'm not
sure I've seen.

What about non-spotted appaloosa? They can have nearly solid white body
with darkish lower legs. Homozygous appaloosas normally have no or very
few spots, and when other genes allow the "blanket" to cover all of the
horse, the result can be nearly solid white. Such horses don't normaly
have much dark on legs, just dark fetlocks and perhaps some dark on
knees too.

Or what about a grey with very pale base color, like palomino + grey?
Naturally white mane + tail, and that grey gene can turn yellow palomino
coat into dark grey before it goes white.

Liisa



This horse, from a distance was as white as a sheet of paper.
In fact, so white, it was striking. It was not a dirty white, or an off
white, or a cream. It was VERY white, with full black stockings.

I have never seen a palomino with black legs. These were not dark brown, or
pale leggings, they appeared black.

It was a striking looking horse, and I asked my husband to stop, but he
would not/did not.

In fact, i wanted to go to the house and ask about the horse. And my
husband really wanted no part of that. It was a large horse, and I had
wondered if perhaps it was a percheron-X (which may have explained the
color) except I would have expected the body to change and gray, but the
legs were still so dark, that I was simply curious.
  #4  
Old October 13th 08, 06:35 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.breeds
Liisa Sarakontu[_2_]
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Posts: 20
Default Ping Liisa

diddy none wrote in :

This horse, from a distance was as white as a sheet of paper.
In fact, so white, it was striking. It was not a dirty white, or an
off white, or a cream. It was VERY white, with full black stockings.


No type of pinto (paint) is possible. Only frame overo pattern can give
solid legs, all the other patterns give at least some white on legs, but
frame overo never gives solid white body. There is always at least
remnants of that "frame": color along backline and under neck. Any
combination of frame and another pinto pattern would give partially or
totally white legs.

Only pattern with close-to-white body and very black legs is buckskin,
which gives normally yellowish ("buckskin-colored") body but which can
sometimes be so pale that it looks mostly white - but buckskins have
always black or at least mixed dark/pale tail and mane.

Grey gene sometimes fades tail and mane first without having much effect
on rest of the body (except about always head). So a very pale buckskin
going grey? Silver buckskin, which has silver and not black mane and
tail in the first place, going grey?

I have never seen a palomino with black legs.


Palominos don't have black legs, but they can have "sooty" (clearly
darker than rest of the coat) legs. And if grey gene is present, it most
often turns the base color much darker than it would have been. A red
chestnut going grey is normally born looking like any other chestnut
foal, but it can look dark iron grey at the age of two years before
starting to get paler. I have seen photos of such horse, which was
registered as "grulla" although it was genetically chestnut grey without
the dun/grulla gene.

It was a striking looking horse, and I asked my husband to stop, but
he would not/did not.


Oh, stupid husband! Mine would behave just in the same way. Luckily it
is me who does all the driving in our family and so if I want to stop, I
do stop no matter what he says :-)

In fact, i wanted to go to the house and ask about the horse. And my
husband really wanted no part of that. It was a large horse, and I had
wondered if perhaps it was a percheron-X (which may have explained the
color) except I would have expected the body to change and gray, but
the legs were still so dark, that I was simply curious.


Most Percherons are indeed grey (and I think that black might be the
most common base color), but they seem to go grey in a quite traditional
way: They go through a very clearly dappled phase, tail and mane go
white before body and legs don't stay solid dark very long. But the
breed might have other types of going grey too.

Here's a few-spot appaloosa, they can have whiter body than this horse
has:
http://www.aphcuk.org/images/Fewspot2.JPG

Very interesting-looking few-spot appy filly, whose head most likely
goes paler when it matures:
http://www.dominofarm.com/Ziggaboo2005Foal.html

This "white dun" Fjord Horse is genetically dun + buckskin. Tail and
mane and renot solid white, and legs are not very dark, but this is
anyway rather close to a "white horse with dark legs":
http://www.bluebirdlane.com/whitedun.jpg

Liisa

  #5  
Old October 13th 08, 08:29 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.breeds
diddy[_2_]
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Posts: 3,108
Default Ping Liisa

Liisa Sarakontu spoke these words of wisdom in
16:

http://www.bluebirdlane.com/whitedun.jpg


This horse was as white as the appy filly, with solid black socks unlike the
dun. But I "think" but was not sure, that there may have been a black dorsal
stripe (lending credence to your DUN theory) But the mane and tail were
clearly white. Which does not concur with the dorsal strip and Dun theory.
It was without doubt, the most interesting colored horse i have ever seen. If
I can find my way back there, I will take pictures
 




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