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  #1  
Old November 5th 08, 07:03 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
S.Smith
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Posts: 44
Default Dog Training

Has anyone tried Don Sullivan's Dog Training? I have used PetSmart puppy
classes and have tried BarkBusters. Both have been minimally effective. I
have a mini Schnauzer that is now 11 mos. old. As a puppy, he has been very
ADD. He has calmed down a fair amount the past few months. I saw Don
Sullivan on TV and checked out his web site. It looks like it may work to
change my puppy to being a normal member of the family. Compared to what I
have paid so far, his program seems reasonable. My training costs so far
have run me almost $700 and I am frustrated with the results. Much of the
methods I was taught such treat rewards are not used with Don Sullivan's
program. I would like to hear any comments some may have.
Petey's Mom


  #2  
Old November 5th 08, 01:16 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Janet Boss
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Posts: 4,368
Default Dog Training

In article ,
"S.Smith" wrote:

Has anyone tried Don Sullivan's Dog Training? I have used PetSmart puppy
classes and have tried BarkBusters. Both have been minimally effective. I
have a mini Schnauzer that is now 11 mos. old.


Find yourself an actual in-person dog trainer. www.dogpro.org

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
  #3  
Old November 5th 08, 02:29 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
diddy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,108
Default Dog Training

"S.Smith" spoke these words of wisdom in
:

Has anyone tried Don Sullivan's Dog Training? I have used PetSmart
puppy classes and have tried BarkBusters. Both have been minimally
effective. I have a mini Schnauzer that is now 11 mos. old. As a
puppy, he has been very ADD. He has calmed down a fair amount the past
few months. I saw Don Sullivan on TV and checked out his web site. It
looks like it may work to change my puppy to being a normal member of
the family. Compared to what I have paid so far, his program seems
reasonable. My training costs so far have run me almost $700 and I am
frustrated with the results. Much of the methods I was taught such
treat rewards are not used with Don Sullivan's program. I would like to
hear any comments some may have. Petey's Mom


I have not tried Don Sullivan's Dog Training. I never felt the need to.

A trained dog is a combination of many basic factors.

Consistancy in sending the message of what is expected of the puppy.
Adequate exercise so the puppy can settle down and focus.
Adequate mental stimulation so the puppy doesn't get bored and chase his
own agenda.
Proper socialization that promotes a dog's skills and confidence levels in
himself as he relates to humans and other animals in his environment.
It's difficult to develop consistency without a trained eye pointing out
your errors.

PetSmart is acceptable for those calm dogs that naturally have no real
expectations by their owners and generally are just easy. Unfortunately,
many dogs don't fit in that mold.

There are many corporate restrictions at Petsmart which will not allow
tools that may be useful in the training of your pet to be used.

I am not familiar with BarkBusters. But I am leery of any corporate
trainers.

I would seek advice from a professional trainer, or even better, a dog
club. Dog clubs often put on classes to pay for their dog interests. Their
classes are usually more affordable, because they do not pay their
instructors. Services are donated by the membership so that profits may be
recycled into club funds to buy equipment, insurance, and pay building rent
to enable everyone involved to continue and further their interests.
  #4  
Old November 5th 08, 03:29 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Judy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,411
Default Dog Training

"S.Smith" wrote in message
...
I have a mini Schnauzer that is now 11 mos. old. As a puppy, he has been
very
ADD. He has calmed down a fair amount the past few months. I saw Don
Sullivan on TV and checked out his web site. It looks like it may work to
change my puppy to being a normal member of the family.


What are you trying to train the puppy to do? What problems are you trying
to correct?

Most puppies are a little ADD. At 11 months, he's just getting over his
teenage period and would have been calming down - which you say is
happening.

Judy

  #5  
Old November 6th 08, 04:27 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
S.Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 44
Default Dog Training


"Judy" wrote in message
...
"S.Smith" wrote in message
...
I have a mini Schnauzer that is now 11 mos. old. As a puppy, he has been
very
ADD. He has calmed down a fair amount the past few months. I saw Don
Sullivan on TV and checked out his web site. It looks like it may work
to change my puppy to being a normal member of the family.


What are you trying to train the puppy to do? What problems are you
trying to correct?

Most puppies are a little ADD. At 11 months, he's just getting over his
teenage period and would have been calming down - which you say is
happening.

Judy


Petey tries to get out the front door, tugs and pulls on the leash...I have
4' and a 6' leashes. He jumps up on visitors and us as well. Barks at a
leaf as it falls from the tree, I guess thinking maybe it is a bird. He
has the run of a nice large well fenced backyard. What I want is a dog that
can live with us and takes a break sometime.
BarkBusters is one-on-one training, giving us the tools with voice and body
language (the trainer comes to the house). Petey really relates best to men
(trainer) and responds. When it is up to me that is a different story. I
have to do it all myself and I have some limitations in walking. The group
I first mentioned can be found at:
www.ThePerfectDog.com. They have a 30 return policy. BarkBusters is good
for the llife of the dog, regardless who the owner is. Petey is extremely
smart and I know with the proper training, he can be fine.
Petey's Mom


  #6  
Old November 6th 08, 01:01 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Judy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,411
Default Dog Training

"S.Smith" wrote in message
news
Petey tries to get out the front door, tugs and pulls on the leash...I
have 4' and a 6' leashes. He jumps up on visitors and us as well. Barks
at a leaf as it falls from the tree, I guess thinking maybe it is a bird.
He has the run of a nice large well fenced backyard. What I want is a dog
that can live with us and takes a break sometime.


He can be that. It doesn't sound to me like he is behaving like anything
other than a typical untrained dog. The simple answer to each of your
problems is "don't let him do that". Now, barking at the leaf is going to
be difficult to break him of, although age and experience on his part will
help. You did get a reactive breed. My dogs spend much of their time on
the back of the couch watching the world. Leaves don't set them off, nor
does any regular occurence like the mailman. A squirrel on the front porch
is going to be greeted by a deafening alarm. But birds are ignored.

BarkBusters is one-on-one training, giving us the tools with voice and
body language (the trainer comes to the house). Petey really relates best
to men (trainer) and responds. When it is up to me that is a different
story. I have to do it all myself and I have some limitations in walking.
The group I first mentioned can be found at:
www.ThePerfectDog.com. They have a 30 return policy. BarkBusters is good
for the llife of the dog, regardless who the owner is. Petey is extremely
smart and I know with the proper training, he can be fine.
Petey's Mom


Petey *can* be the dog you want. Why don't you find a local training class
and take him there? What you are looking for is pretty basic. Saying he
relates best to men (although it may be true) doesn't help you. No one else
can train your dog and turn him loose in your household and your life and
have the training be effective. You have to do the training and then be
consistent. Training is not a one-time thing. It happens every day of the
dog's life.

I see nothing but rip-off in something like Bark Busters who are
guaranteeing the dog. It's not the dog who has to learn, it's YOU. And you
have a breed who will test your resolve regularly. I have two miniature
schnauzers. The male checks every single day to make sure that I am still
in charge. Because he's quite willing to take over any decisions that I
don't enforce.

I watched an 88 year old woman compete in agility with her miniature
schnauzer, who had been trained first in obedience. She was not
particularly mobile. I know another woman who competes in agility with her
miniature schnauzer and uses a walker. Your limitations in walking,
whatever they are, may be a challenge but they don't eliminate the
possibility of you having a well-behaved dog.

Find a local group - check with your local kennel club or shelter and ask
about classes. They will be cheaper and more effective than either of the
organizations you have mentioned.

Judy

  #7  
Old November 6th 08, 08:09 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
S.Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 44
Default Dog Training


"Judy" wrote in message
...
"S.Smith" wrote in message
news
Petey tries to get out the front door, tugs and pulls on the leash...I
have 4' and a 6' leashes. He jumps up on visitors and us as well. Barks
at a leaf as it falls from the tree, I guess thinking maybe it is a bird.
He has the run of a nice large well fenced backyard. What I want is a dog
that can live with us and takes a break sometime.


He can be that. It doesn't sound to me like he is behaving like anything
other than a typical untrained dog. The simple answer to each of your
problems is "don't let him do that". Now, barking at the leaf is going to
be difficult to break him of, although age and experience on his part will
help. You did get a reactive breed. My dogs spend much of their time on
the back of the couch watching the world. Leaves don't set them off, nor
does any regular occurence like the mailman. A squirrel on the front
porch is going to be greeted by a deafening alarm. But birds are ignored.

BarkBusters is one-on-one training, giving us the tools with voice and
body language (the trainer comes to the house). Petey really relates
best to men (trainer) and responds. When it is up to me that is a
different story. I have to do it all myself and I have some limitations
in walking. The group I first mentioned can be found at:
www.ThePerfectDog.com. They have a 30 return policy. BarkBusters is
good for the llife of the dog, regardless who the owner is. Petey is
extremely smart and I know with the proper training, he can be fine.
Petey's Mom


Petey *can* be the dog you want. Why don't you find a local training
class and take him there? What you are looking for is pretty basic.
Saying he relates best to men (although it may be true) doesn't help you.
No one else can train your dog and turn him loose in your household and
your life and have the training be effective. You have to do the training
and then be consistent. Training is not a one-time thing. It happens
every day of the dog's life.

I see nothing but rip-off in something like Bark Busters who are
guaranteeing the dog. It's not the dog who has to learn, it's YOU. And
you have a breed who will test your resolve regularly. I have two
miniature schnauzers. The male checks every single day to make sure that
I am still in charge. Because he's quite willing to take over any
decisions that I don't enforce.

I watched an 88 year old woman compete in agility with her miniature
schnauzer, who had been trained first in obedience. She was not
particularly mobile. I know another woman who competes in agility with
her miniature schnauzer and uses a walker. Your limitations in walking,
whatever they are, may be a challenge but they don't eliminate the
possibility of you having a well-behaved dog.

Find a local group - check with your local kennel club or shelter and ask
about classes. They will be cheaper and more effective than either of the
organizations you have mentioned.

Judy


Judy,

Thanks for all your good comments. I did the training class for puppies at
PetSmart and it was rough for two reasons - his ADD and there was only one
other puppy in the class. All Petey wanted to do was mess with the other
puppy. I went every Monday at 1pm for 8 weeks...did not miss one day. I
had little to nothing to show for the efforts. Cost was $108. Petey really
is a sweet dog and all I want for him is to be all he can be. I have had
other dogs (adults), but he is the first puppy I have had to raise.
Peteys Mom


  #8  
Old November 6th 08, 08:09 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Rocky[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Dog Training

"Judy" said in rec.pets.dogs.health:

I see nothing but rip-off in something like Bark Busters
who are guaranteeing the dog.


I had one client who started Grrring at her dog, apparently a
Bark Busters technique. This dog had been coming here for a
while and was a very nice GR. I told my client that Grrring was
stupid and explained why. I lost the client (and I still miss
the dog) but I understand that there was a bite at home.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
  #9  
Old November 6th 08, 08:26 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Judy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,411
Default Dog Training

"S.Smith" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all your good comments. I did the training class for puppies
at PetSmart and it was rough for two reasons - his ADD and there was only
one other puppy in the class.


Let me add another reason. It was a PetSmart class.

Find a class run by someone who actually knows how to train dogs, not by
some minimum wage employee who probably doesn't know any more about it than
the person working the cash register at your local supermarket.

I don't see anything in your description of his behavior that would indicate
that he has ADD - if a dog actually can. And while it's nice to have other
dogs in the class to socialize him, it doesn't change the training itself.

Contact your local kennel club and ask them about classes.

I went every Monday at 1pm for 8 weeks...did not miss one day. I had
little to nothing to show for the efforts.


How much work did you do at home? Every day, every hour. What happens in
the class is YOUR training. What happens all the other hours of the week is
your puppy's training. It helps that you showed up at class. It
demonstrates that you were sincere in your attempt. Now it needs to be at a
class where the instructor is actually capable of teaching you to train your
dog. And then you have to do all the rest of the work all the rest of the
week.

I have had other dogs (adults), but he is the first puppy I have had to
raise.


I think this is one of the causes of your problem. Not that you *can't* do
it, but you don't seem to have the concept of the amount of work it takes to
properly train a puppy. They are learning all the time. Especially when
you don't think you are teaching them anything.

An adult dog comes with basic behavior that you can decide for or against
before you bring them into your household. They also don't have all those
puppy traits and the teenaged traits that you've probably never seen in a
dog before.

I sincerely doubt that your dog has ADD. Whoever told you that doesn't have
a clue what it would really mean. You have an untrained puppy who is
quickly growing into an untrained dog. You are looking for someone else to
come in and train your dog and you seem to think that magically it will then
be a trained dog. It doesn't happen that way. And you really didn't choose
a breed that is going to make it easy for you to do little or nothing.

Miniature schnauzers are very smart dogs. And they are also very eager to
please. They are also usually easily motivated by either food or toys.
This combination makes them relatively easy to train but also means that
they don't train themselves. And that it will be a lifetime effort for you.
this doesn't mean that you have to spend hours every day training for the
life of the dog. But it does mean that a one-time training period is not
going to solve your problems forever.

My two schnauzers are reasonably well-behaved. This didn't happen overnight
or without a great deal of effort. And we train and reinforce training
every single day. "No, you cannot continue to bark at that squirrel. Yes,
you must sit quietly while I open the door for the UPS man. Yes, you must
sit on the rug by the door until I get there to wipe your feet. No, you
cannot go over and investigate the interesting smells in the neighbor's yard
and yes, you must come to me right now when I say to." Every single day.

I have no patience for people who tell me that my schnauzers must be some
sort of strange deviations in the breed because *theirs* could never let
someone come into the house and not bark hysterically at them. It's
training and there are no short-cuts.

Judy

  #10  
Old November 8th 08, 06:56 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
S.Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 44
Default Dog Training


"Judy" wrote in message
...
"S.Smith" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all your good comments. I did the training class for puppies
at PetSmart and it was rough for two reasons - his ADD and there was only
one other puppy in the class.


Let me add another reason. It was a PetSmart class.

Find a class run by someone who actually knows how to train dogs, not by
some minimum wage employee who probably doesn't know any more about it
than the person working the cash register at your local supermarket.

I don't see anything in your description of his behavior that would
indicate that he has ADD - if a dog actually can. And while it's nice to
have other dogs in the class to socialize him, it doesn't change the
training itself.

Contact your local kennel club and ask them about classes.

I went every Monday at 1pm for 8 weeks...did not miss one day. I had
little to nothing to show for the efforts.


How much work did you do at home? Every day, every hour. What happens in
the class is YOUR training. What happens all the other hours of the week
is your puppy's training. It helps that you showed up at class. It
demonstrates that you were sincere in your attempt. Now it needs to be at
a class where the instructor is actually capable of teaching you to train
your dog. And then you have to do all the rest of the work all the rest
of the week.

I have had other dogs (adults), but he is the first puppy I have had to
raise.


I think this is one of the causes of your problem. Not that you *can't*
do it, but you don't seem to have the concept of the amount of work it
takes to properly train a puppy. They are learning all the time.
Especially when you don't think you are teaching them anything.

An adult dog comes with basic behavior that you can decide for or against
before you bring them into your household. They also don't have all those
puppy traits and the teenaged traits that you've probably never seen in a
dog before.

I sincerely doubt that your dog has ADD. Whoever told you that doesn't
have a clue what it would really mean. You have an untrained puppy who is
quickly growing into an untrained dog. You are looking for someone else
to come in and train your dog and you seem to think that magically it will
then be a trained dog. It doesn't happen that way. And you really didn't
choose a breed that is going to make it easy for you to do little or
nothing.

Miniature schnauzers are very smart dogs. And they are also very eager to
please. They are also usually easily motivated by either food or toys.
This combination makes them relatively easy to train but also means that
they don't train themselves. And that it will be a lifetime effort for
you. this doesn't mean that you have to spend hours every day training for
the life of the dog. But it does mean that a one-time training period is
not going to solve your problems forever.

My two schnauzers are reasonably well-behaved. This didn't happen
overnight or without a great deal of effort. And we train and reinforce
training every single day. "No, you cannot continue to bark at that
squirrel. Yes, you must sit quietly while I open the door for the UPS
man. Yes, you must sit on the rug by the door until I get there to wipe
your feet. No, you cannot go over and investigate the interesting smells
in the neighbor's yard and yes, you must come to me right now when I say
to." Every single day.

I have no patience for people who tell me that my schnauzers must be some
sort of strange deviations in the breed because *theirs* could never let
someone come into the house and not bark hysterically at them. It's
training and there are no short-cuts.

Judy


Judy,
You are 100% correct on all points. When you suggested a kennel club, what
did you mean? Are there club type groups for certain breeds? As you can
tell, I am very new at all of this and I appreciate the time you have taken
to explain all of this to me. The first vet that saw him (not my vet) at 8
weeks said he was ADD. The only time he was calm was when he was sleeping
or eating. He has improved much, especially after being neutered. My vet
think he is just a very happy puppy and in time things will improve. I have
been with this vet for 20 years and respect his opinion. Petey is very
smart (that is why I wanted a schnauzer) and has learned many words. He is
so much smarter than I am.
Thank you for all your input.
Petey's Mom












 




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