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Working dog diets



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 24th 08, 04:29 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
chardonnay9
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Posts: 1,054
Default Working dog diets

It is time, however, to consider that the working dog is an athlete and
deserves the same attention and consideration that any other hopeful
Olympic competitor or all star player is given. Imagine a professional
human athlete in training consuming a prepared diet of processed food
twice a day. Imagine that the food is cooked for three days, using
inferior grade food products, and then baked into small chunks, with
supplements added in after this process to stand up to nutritional
requirements. Would you expect this athlete to deliver his best
performance on the field? Would this diet sustain and maintain the
required strength, stamina and endurance needed for the player to
compete under stress at their best ability?
The dog is somewhat different than us, however, as canines are
carnivores. Carnivores depend on proteins and fats for energy and
life-sustaining nutrients. The more energy a dog expends, the more fat
and protein are required in their system. If these energy-feeding
factors are not found in the system, the dog quickly loses the ability
to sustain endurance and stamina.
The main diet available for dogs today is dry dog food. Let’s take a
quick look at the ingredients in this diet. Most kibble lists at least
three forms of grain, if not more. Carbohydrates are not energy
producers for canines. Grains are used extensively in processed foods
for bulk, cost and ease in preparation. Dogs require amino acids as the
building blocks for increased energy and health. Amino acids are found
in proteins, most importantly, animal proteins. The cooking involved in
the making of processed dog foods often destroys the amino acids,
digestive enzymes, and most of the vitamins and minerals.
Finally, starchy and high fiber foods take longer to digest in the dog’s
short and simple digestive tract, compared to the ease of digesting
fresh foods (animal proteins and fats). Digestion takes up most of the
energy in any living being, and the less time spent with digestion, the
more their energy can be spent elsewhere, like the field or the ring. If
food is digested quickly, the working dog will not have to carry a full
belly of food on to the field, giving the dog the needed energy for
working, and also lessening the chance of bloat or torsion.

“No lower limit or minimal requirement for carbohydrate has been
established in the dogs. Ketosis and associated sodium depletion occur
in humans suddenly shifted to low carbohydrate diets. Dogs are much more
resistant than humans to ketosis when fasted and fed 100% fat. Sled dogs
fed a high fat (66% energy) and zero carbohydrate diet at twice
maintenance has very low blood levels of acetoacetate and
betahydroxybutyrate 3 and 9 weeks. There is no evidence that dogs have
an essential nutrient requirement for glucose, using nutrient in the
strict sense of something assimilated from the diet. Tissue utilization
of glucose accounts for about 25% of the total resting metabolism in
dogs and other animals. Clearly this can be synthesized from nutrient
precursors of glucose, (e.g. amino acids and glycerol, in dogs fed zero
carbohydrate). In this respect, dogs resemble ruminants, chicks, rats,
and cats. Even in man, the metabolic changes that immediately follow
dietary intake of carbohydrate deprivation abate with time. Thus, there
is no minimal daily intake of carbohydrates recommended for man. It has
been suggested that some unassimilated carbohydrate is beneficial
mechanically in facilitating regular bowel movements. Regularity is
synonymous with health in the eyes of anally-oriented people. The
anthropomorphic projection of this ideal to dogs has no established
medical basis. The small, foul smelling and infrequent productions of a
dog fed a low fiber diet may be less desirable than the bulky,
relatively pleasant herbivore-like scatterings of dogs fed high fiber
diets. Or they may be more desirable. This is a matter of esthetics.”

http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/working-dog-diets/
  #2  
Old November 24th 08, 04:51 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
Melinda Shore
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Posts: 7,732
Default Working dog diets

In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:

[ ... ]

This is a pretty good example of why you might prefer the
advice of a veterinarian over that of a random crackpot on
the internet. chardonnay, I guarantee, doesn't understand
any of what she cut and pasted into the article, and much of
it conflicts with current recommendations coming out of
research in performance dog nutrition (see a
layperson-friendly summary of Arleigh Reynolds's research
at:
http://www.purinaproclub.com/sportin...20Exercise.htm)

Someone who isn't familiar with the field and who lacks a
research background is likely to see words like
"acetoacetate" and go "Ooooooh, shiny!", not realizing that
a crank with an agenda is misrepresenting the actual state
of veterinary nutrition research.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #3  
Old November 24th 08, 05:57 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
chardonnay9
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,054
Default Working dog diets

Melinda Shore wrote:
In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:

[ ... ]

This is a pretty good example of why you might prefer the
advice of a veterinarian over that of a random crackpot on
the internet. chardonnay, I guarantee, doesn't understand
any of what she cut and pasted into the article, and much of
it conflicts with current recommendations coming out of
research in performance dog nutrition (see a
layperson-friendly summary of Arleigh Reynolds's research
at:
http://www.purinaproclub.com/sportin...20Exercise.htm)


Yeah, I'm just sooo sure that a study paid for by a kibble company will
tell the truth! ROFLOL!

Melinda, why you have to resort to flaming? Is it because that's the
best you can do? Why didn't you answer my post about how you abuse your
dogs?
  #4  
Old November 24th 08, 06:10 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
Melinda Shore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,732
Default Working dog diets

In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:
Yeah, I'm just sooo sure that a study paid for by a kibble company will
tell the truth! ROFLOL!


Actually, Arleigh Reynolds was producing exactly the same
sort of results when he was on the faculty at the Cornell
Veterinary College - this is continuing research. He also
has his own open class sprint team that does exceptionally
well. I'll notice that you're committing the ad hominem
logical fallacy, attacking the man rather than discussing
the results of his research. He runs the dogs, takes muscle
biopsies, checks blood chemistry, measures oxygen transfer
from the lungs to the bloodstream, and so on. There are
lots of opportunities for flaws to creep in - methodological
flaws, analytical flaws. Surely if there's something
incorrect in his results you can identify what it is.

I'll note that you're using biased sources, however, and
ones from people who aren't nutritionists, veterinarians, or
research scientists. Why should I consider your sources
more reliable than peer-reviewed, published research by a
Ph.D./DVM who's been on the faculty of the top veterinary
college in the US, who's board certified in nutrition, who
uses his own research results to train his own top dog team
and gets great results, and who's very heavily cited by
other veterinary nutrition researchers in their own
published papers? Specifics, please.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #5  
Old November 24th 08, 08:41 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
chardonnay9
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,054
Default Working dog diets

Melinda Shore wrote:
In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:
Yeah, I'm just sooo sure that a study paid for by a kibble company will
tell the truth! ROFLOL!



I'll note that you're using biased sources,


I noticed that you're using biased sources!

And why would I trust a post from an animal abuser?
  #6  
Old November 24th 08, 09:03 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
Melinda Shore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,732
Default Working dog diets

In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:
I noticed that you're using biased sources!


That's non-responsive. I haven't dismissed your sources
because they have a point-of-view (I'd be worried if they
didn't), but because they're wrong on their facts and
misrepresent research. If there are specific problems with
Reynolds's research on carbohydrate utilization in
performance dogs, point it out.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #7  
Old November 24th 08, 09:19 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
Sharon Too
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Posts: 664
Default Working dog diets

"chardonnay9" wrote:

And why would I trust a post from an animal abuser?


People like you are dangerous as you spout your version as God's divine
truth because you say so and anybody who disagrees is an 'animal abuser'.


  #8  
Old November 24th 08, 11:37 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
chardonnay9
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,054
Default Working dog diets

Melinda Shore wrote:
In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:

[ ... ]

This is a pretty good example of why you might prefer the
advice of a veterinarian over that of a random crackpot on
the internet. chardonnay, I guarantee, doesn't understand
any of what she cut and pasted into the article,


Evidently it's you that didn't get it. After looking it over it seems
you had the whole thing backwards. You've unwittedly proved my point!

Melinda has no idea what I know and understand. She probably doesn't
recognise someone that doesn't abuse animals or understand them.


and much of
it conflicts with current recommendations coming out of
research in performance dog nutrition (see a
layperson-friendly summary of Arleigh Reynolds's research
at:
http://www.purinaproclub.com/sportin...20Exercise.htm)

Someone who isn't familiar with the field and who lacks a
research background is likely to see words like
"acetoacetate" and go "Ooooooh, shiny!", not realizing that
a crank with an agenda is misrepresenting the actual state
of veterinary nutrition research.


http://www.eukanuba-scienceonline.co...02.pdf#page=32

Fat and Endurance
It is generally accepted that energy is the
nutrient of most concern for sporting dogs, yet
the “optimal” method of supplying this energy
in the diet has been controversial. It is well recognized
in human athletic events that an
important limiting factor in prolonged exercise
is the amount of glycogen present in the working
muscles and that onset of fatigue is highly
correlated with muscle glycogen depletion.5
However, unlike the human, the dog derives
approximately 70–90% of the energy for muscle
contraction from fat metabolism and only a
small amount derived from carbohydrate
metabolism.6 These laboratory findings are consistent
with research in sled dogs7,8 and Beagles9
in which the ability to use fatty acids through
aerobic pathways for energy is more important
for performance than the use of muscle glycogen
through anaerobic pathways.
A controlled study was conducted in which
Alaskan Huskies were fed either a high-fat
(60% fat, 25% protein, 15% carbohydrate on
an energy basis) or a high-carbohydrate (15%
fat, 25% protein, 60% carbohydrate) diet for a
one month acclimation period, followed by 6
months of exercise tests. At the beginning of
the exercise tests, animals fed the high-fat diet
had significantly higher levels of circulating
free fatty acids (FFA) during aerobic exercise
tests than dogs fed the high carbohydrate diet.10
One of the major determinants of the
amount of fat used for muscle contraction is the
concentration of FFA in the bloodstream. By
increasing plasma FFA levels, the high-fat diet
facilitated FFA utilization during exercise. This
phenomenon has been further documented in
Labrador Retrievers which have a 45% increase
in maximal fat oxidation when fed a high-fat
(65% of energy) compared to a low-fat (25% of
energy) diet.11 These same dogs also had nearly
a 50% increase in VO2 max (Figure 1) and a
40% increase in mitochondrial volume in biopsies
of the Triceps brachii (Figure 2) when fed a
high-fat diet.VO2 max is an indicator of fitness and
mitochondria are the subcellular compartments
that “burn” fat. It is proposed that feeding a
high-fat diet stimulates growth of mitochondria
and thereby increases maximal rates of fat oxidation
(amount of fat “burned”), aerobic capacity,
and endurance in Labrador Retrievers until
they reach the high endurance levels of sled
dogs. In essence, feeding a high-fat diet to a
Labrador Retriever produces an animal that has
an aerobic capacity and mitochondrial volume
density indistinguishable from that of a sled
dog. This strongly suggests that the legendary
endurance of sled dogs may be due to diet and
not to generations of selective breeding. These
results further imply that diet may have a primary
role in stamina and performance from a
practical standpoint, since training is typically
associated with only a 15–20% increase in VO2
max and maximal fat oxidation.18
  #9  
Old November 24th 08, 11:57 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
Melinda Shore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,732
Default Working dog diets

In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:
These laboratory findings are consistent
with research in sled dogs7,8 and Beagles9
in which the ability to use fatty acids through
aerobic pathways for energy is more important
for performance than the use of muscle glycogen
through anaerobic pathways.


Hi, chardonnay, this is a pretty good example of what I was
referring to when I said that I don't think you understand
all that stuff you cut and paste. First, this is older
research. Second, it's complementary to the discussion of
carbohydrates and ATP production in sprint environments.
Right now canine nutritionists are recommending carbohydrate
supplementation for dogs involved with high-output
activities on consecutive days, specifically because muscle
glycogen replacement is key to performance (ATP production)
in what in humans we refer to as "fast-twitch" activities
and because it does, in fact, become depleted. The text I
posted explained that it was specifically discussing high-
output activities and that the nutritional considerations
for sprint events and endurance events are not the same.

It's well-known among people who look at endurance events in
mammals, including humans, that the key to endurance is
being able to convert fat into energy. That's not news, and
I'm surprised you think it is. Even the NY Times ran
articles last spring on research showing that by the third
day or so of the Iditarod and other ultra-marathon dogsled
races the dogs' metabolisms adjusted so well to
long-distance running that their blood chemistry and other
indicators looked like that of non-active dogs (and, not so
incidentally, these dogs are all fed kibbles - all of them).
What endurance training in both humans and dogs does is
teach the body to rely more on fats for energy. Again, this
is exercise physiology 101. Or maybe just plain 1.

Anybody can cut and paste. I'm a little surprised that
someone who is apparently interested in nutrition hasn't
made an effort to learn the basics about it - not about
ingredients, but about macro- and micro-nutrients and how
they're processed by the body. You really don't know
anything about that and the more you post the more evident
it becomes.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #10  
Old November 25th 08, 01:40 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
chardonnay9
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,054
Default Working dog diets

Melinda Shore wrote:

Right now canine nutritionists are recommending carbohydrate
supplementation for dogs involved with high-output
activities on consecutive days,


Not the ones I know! You are so easy!
 




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