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#1
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Working dog diets
It is time, however, to consider that the working dog is an athlete and
deserves the same attention and consideration that any other hopeful Olympic competitor or all star player is given. Imagine a professional human athlete in training consuming a prepared diet of processed food twice a day. Imagine that the food is cooked for three days, using inferior grade food products, and then baked into small chunks, with supplements added in after this process to stand up to nutritional requirements. Would you expect this athlete to deliver his best performance on the field? Would this diet sustain and maintain the required strength, stamina and endurance needed for the player to compete under stress at their best ability? The dog is somewhat different than us, however, as canines are carnivores. Carnivores depend on proteins and fats for energy and life-sustaining nutrients. The more energy a dog expends, the more fat and protein are required in their system. If these energy-feeding factors are not found in the system, the dog quickly loses the ability to sustain endurance and stamina. The main diet available for dogs today is dry dog food. Let’s take a quick look at the ingredients in this diet. Most kibble lists at least three forms of grain, if not more. Carbohydrates are not energy producers for canines. Grains are used extensively in processed foods for bulk, cost and ease in preparation. Dogs require amino acids as the building blocks for increased energy and health. Amino acids are found in proteins, most importantly, animal proteins. The cooking involved in the making of processed dog foods often destroys the amino acids, digestive enzymes, and most of the vitamins and minerals. Finally, starchy and high fiber foods take longer to digest in the dog’s short and simple digestive tract, compared to the ease of digesting fresh foods (animal proteins and fats). Digestion takes up most of the energy in any living being, and the less time spent with digestion, the more their energy can be spent elsewhere, like the field or the ring. If food is digested quickly, the working dog will not have to carry a full belly of food on to the field, giving the dog the needed energy for working, and also lessening the chance of bloat or torsion. “No lower limit or minimal requirement for carbohydrate has been established in the dogs. Ketosis and associated sodium depletion occur in humans suddenly shifted to low carbohydrate diets. Dogs are much more resistant than humans to ketosis when fasted and fed 100% fat. Sled dogs fed a high fat (66% energy) and zero carbohydrate diet at twice maintenance has very low blood levels of acetoacetate and betahydroxybutyrate 3 and 9 weeks. There is no evidence that dogs have an essential nutrient requirement for glucose, using nutrient in the strict sense of something assimilated from the diet. Tissue utilization of glucose accounts for about 25% of the total resting metabolism in dogs and other animals. Clearly this can be synthesized from nutrient precursors of glucose, (e.g. amino acids and glycerol, in dogs fed zero carbohydrate). In this respect, dogs resemble ruminants, chicks, rats, and cats. Even in man, the metabolic changes that immediately follow dietary intake of carbohydrate deprivation abate with time. Thus, there is no minimal daily intake of carbohydrates recommended for man. It has been suggested that some unassimilated carbohydrate is beneficial mechanically in facilitating regular bowel movements. Regularity is synonymous with health in the eyes of anally-oriented people. The anthropomorphic projection of this ideal to dogs has no established medical basis. The small, foul smelling and infrequent productions of a dog fed a low fiber diet may be less desirable than the bulky, relatively pleasant herbivore-like scatterings of dogs fed high fiber diets. Or they may be more desirable. This is a matter of esthetics.” http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/working-dog-diets/ |
#2
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Working dog diets
In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote: [ ... ] This is a pretty good example of why you might prefer the advice of a veterinarian over that of a random crackpot on the internet. chardonnay, I guarantee, doesn't understand any of what she cut and pasted into the article, and much of it conflicts with current recommendations coming out of research in performance dog nutrition (see a layperson-friendly summary of Arleigh Reynolds's research at: http://www.purinaproclub.com/sportin...20Exercise.htm) Someone who isn't familiar with the field and who lacks a research background is likely to see words like "acetoacetate" and go "Ooooooh, shiny!", not realizing that a crank with an agenda is misrepresenting the actual state of veterinary nutrition research. -- Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community |
#3
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Working dog diets
Melinda Shore wrote:
In article , chardonnay9 wrote: [ ... ] This is a pretty good example of why you might prefer the advice of a veterinarian over that of a random crackpot on the internet. chardonnay, I guarantee, doesn't understand any of what she cut and pasted into the article, and much of it conflicts with current recommendations coming out of research in performance dog nutrition (see a layperson-friendly summary of Arleigh Reynolds's research at: http://www.purinaproclub.com/sportin...20Exercise.htm) Yeah, I'm just sooo sure that a study paid for by a kibble company will tell the truth! ROFLOL! Melinda, why you have to resort to flaming? Is it because that's the best you can do? Why didn't you answer my post about how you abuse your dogs? |
#4
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Working dog diets
In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote: Yeah, I'm just sooo sure that a study paid for by a kibble company will tell the truth! ROFLOL! Actually, Arleigh Reynolds was producing exactly the same sort of results when he was on the faculty at the Cornell Veterinary College - this is continuing research. He also has his own open class sprint team that does exceptionally well. I'll notice that you're committing the ad hominem logical fallacy, attacking the man rather than discussing the results of his research. He runs the dogs, takes muscle biopsies, checks blood chemistry, measures oxygen transfer from the lungs to the bloodstream, and so on. There are lots of opportunities for flaws to creep in - methodological flaws, analytical flaws. Surely if there's something incorrect in his results you can identify what it is. I'll note that you're using biased sources, however, and ones from people who aren't nutritionists, veterinarians, or research scientists. Why should I consider your sources more reliable than peer-reviewed, published research by a Ph.D./DVM who's been on the faculty of the top veterinary college in the US, who's board certified in nutrition, who uses his own research results to train his own top dog team and gets great results, and who's very heavily cited by other veterinary nutrition researchers in their own published papers? Specifics, please. -- Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community |
#5
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Working dog diets
Melinda Shore wrote:
In article , chardonnay9 wrote: Yeah, I'm just sooo sure that a study paid for by a kibble company will tell the truth! ROFLOL! I'll note that you're using biased sources, I noticed that you're using biased sources! And why would I trust a post from an animal abuser? |
#6
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Working dog diets
In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote: I noticed that you're using biased sources! That's non-responsive. I haven't dismissed your sources because they have a point-of-view (I'd be worried if they didn't), but because they're wrong on their facts and misrepresent research. If there are specific problems with Reynolds's research on carbohydrate utilization in performance dogs, point it out. -- Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community |
#7
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Working dog diets
"chardonnay9" wrote:
And why would I trust a post from an animal abuser? People like you are dangerous as you spout your version as God's divine truth because you say so and anybody who disagrees is an 'animal abuser'. |
#8
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Working dog diets
Melinda Shore wrote:
In article , chardonnay9 wrote: [ ... ] This is a pretty good example of why you might prefer the advice of a veterinarian over that of a random crackpot on the internet. chardonnay, I guarantee, doesn't understand any of what she cut and pasted into the article, Evidently it's you that didn't get it. After looking it over it seems you had the whole thing backwards. You've unwittedly proved my point! Melinda has no idea what I know and understand. She probably doesn't recognise someone that doesn't abuse animals or understand them. and much of it conflicts with current recommendations coming out of research in performance dog nutrition (see a layperson-friendly summary of Arleigh Reynolds's research at: http://www.purinaproclub.com/sportin...20Exercise.htm) Someone who isn't familiar with the field and who lacks a research background is likely to see words like "acetoacetate" and go "Ooooooh, shiny!", not realizing that a crank with an agenda is misrepresenting the actual state of veterinary nutrition research. http://www.eukanuba-scienceonline.co...02.pdf#page=32 Fat and Endurance It is generally accepted that energy is the nutrient of most concern for sporting dogs, yet the “optimal” method of supplying this energy in the diet has been controversial. It is well recognized in human athletic events that an important limiting factor in prolonged exercise is the amount of glycogen present in the working muscles and that onset of fatigue is highly correlated with muscle glycogen depletion.5 However, unlike the human, the dog derives approximately 70–90% of the energy for muscle contraction from fat metabolism and only a small amount derived from carbohydrate metabolism.6 These laboratory findings are consistent with research in sled dogs7,8 and Beagles9 in which the ability to use fatty acids through aerobic pathways for energy is more important for performance than the use of muscle glycogen through anaerobic pathways. A controlled study was conducted in which Alaskan Huskies were fed either a high-fat (60% fat, 25% protein, 15% carbohydrate on an energy basis) or a high-carbohydrate (15% fat, 25% protein, 60% carbohydrate) diet for a one month acclimation period, followed by 6 months of exercise tests. At the beginning of the exercise tests, animals fed the high-fat diet had significantly higher levels of circulating free fatty acids (FFA) during aerobic exercise tests than dogs fed the high carbohydrate diet.10 One of the major determinants of the amount of fat used for muscle contraction is the concentration of FFA in the bloodstream. By increasing plasma FFA levels, the high-fat diet facilitated FFA utilization during exercise. This phenomenon has been further documented in Labrador Retrievers which have a 45% increase in maximal fat oxidation when fed a high-fat (65% of energy) compared to a low-fat (25% of energy) diet.11 These same dogs also had nearly a 50% increase in VO2 max (Figure 1) and a 40% increase in mitochondrial volume in biopsies of the Triceps brachii (Figure 2) when fed a high-fat diet.VO2 max is an indicator of fitness and mitochondria are the subcellular compartments that “burn” fat. It is proposed that feeding a high-fat diet stimulates growth of mitochondria and thereby increases maximal rates of fat oxidation (amount of fat “burned”), aerobic capacity, and endurance in Labrador Retrievers until they reach the high endurance levels of sled dogs. In essence, feeding a high-fat diet to a Labrador Retriever produces an animal that has an aerobic capacity and mitochondrial volume density indistinguishable from that of a sled dog. This strongly suggests that the legendary endurance of sled dogs may be due to diet and not to generations of selective breeding. These results further imply that diet may have a primary role in stamina and performance from a practical standpoint, since training is typically associated with only a 15–20% increase in VO2 max and maximal fat oxidation.18 |
#9
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Working dog diets
In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote: These laboratory findings are consistent with research in sled dogs7,8 and Beagles9 in which the ability to use fatty acids through aerobic pathways for energy is more important for performance than the use of muscle glycogen through anaerobic pathways. Hi, chardonnay, this is a pretty good example of what I was referring to when I said that I don't think you understand all that stuff you cut and paste. First, this is older research. Second, it's complementary to the discussion of carbohydrates and ATP production in sprint environments. Right now canine nutritionists are recommending carbohydrate supplementation for dogs involved with high-output activities on consecutive days, specifically because muscle glycogen replacement is key to performance (ATP production) in what in humans we refer to as "fast-twitch" activities and because it does, in fact, become depleted. The text I posted explained that it was specifically discussing high- output activities and that the nutritional considerations for sprint events and endurance events are not the same. It's well-known among people who look at endurance events in mammals, including humans, that the key to endurance is being able to convert fat into energy. That's not news, and I'm surprised you think it is. Even the NY Times ran articles last spring on research showing that by the third day or so of the Iditarod and other ultra-marathon dogsled races the dogs' metabolisms adjusted so well to long-distance running that their blood chemistry and other indicators looked like that of non-active dogs (and, not so incidentally, these dogs are all fed kibbles - all of them). What endurance training in both humans and dogs does is teach the body to rely more on fats for energy. Again, this is exercise physiology 101. Or maybe just plain 1. Anybody can cut and paste. I'm a little surprised that someone who is apparently interested in nutrition hasn't made an effort to learn the basics about it - not about ingredients, but about macro- and micro-nutrients and how they're processed by the body. You really don't know anything about that and the more you post the more evident it becomes. -- Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community |
#10
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Working dog diets
Melinda Shore wrote:
Right now canine nutritionists are recommending carbohydrate supplementation for dogs involved with high-output activities on consecutive days, Not the ones I know! You are so easy! |
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