Need the group's help please. Our Lab has allergies. He scratches
constantly but has not yet developed "hot spots". The vet recommends we
eliminate ALL grain from his diet. I switched from "Science Diet" Lamb and
Rice to "Blue Buffalo" Large Breed Chicken and Brown Rice mistakenly
thinking that "all natural" was the answer. Treats (other than the
occasional carrots are from the same company) - also staying clear of
beef. So, I am stumped. ...... Need recommendation for premium
"grainless" food I can use.

Thanks much in advance

Mike

Mike and Me wrote in
0.224:

...... Need recommendation for premium "grainless" food I can use.

Figuring this out will likely require a little trial and error and a
lot of patience. Just going grainless will not help, if your dog is
actually allergic to the protein source in his food. I'd recommend a
limited ingredient diet that does not contain grains, nor, if possible,
any main ingredients that the dog has already been exposed to. You
want something novel.

I've been dealing with a similar problem with my dog. No hot spots,
but she was chewing her feet and scratching constantly. I had already
tried several diet changes (they can take several weeks to make a
difference), but hadn't had a lasting improvement from any of them.

I talked to my vet, who said that it could be the protien source, but
that could also be the carbohydrate source. She said that they're
seeing more dogs allergic to rice and lamb, as foods with those
ingredients have increased in popularity.

What I did was try a grain free, limited ingredient food. We started
out with Natural Balance venison and sweet potato. That helped. After
a few months, she was no longer itching, but she was still chewing her
feet. I then switched her to Natural Balance duck and potato, which
she's doing even better on. The only drawback has been that she smells
like smoked duck and french fries, a combination I'm not such a fan of.
It's also low in fat, and her coat has consequently become dry and
flaky. I've been supplementing with flax oil, since it's in her food,
but it's still too early to tell if it's going to help. If it doesn't,
I'm going to have to look for a different food, and the fun will start
all over again!

Keep in mind, too, that a dog with food allergies can become allergic
to something he hasn't previously had an allergy to. It's possible
that you'll find a food he tolerates well, only to find out a few years
from now that he can no longer eat it. At that point, you'll have to
do another trial-and-error search for a new food. This is why,
consequently, I would avoid giving healthy dogs foods with novel
ingredients. If you do that, you'll have nothing to fall back on if
your dog develops an allergy.

Something else to consider is talking to your vet about medication. My
vet put my dog on a two-week course of prednisone. I'm not a fan of
pred, because it has some serious side-effects, but it has its place.
I'm glad we put her on it, though, because it gave her system a chance
to stop reacting.

For more long-term use, my vet recommended Benadryl 3x/day. There are
other antihistimines that can be used in dogs, some that might work
better and some not so well (e.g. Chlortrimeton and Zyrtec). It's a
matter of talking to your vet and finding the right one at the right
dosage for your dog.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

Shelly wrote in
09:

It's a matter of talking to your vet and finding the right one at the
right dosage for your dog.


Shelly, thanks for the insight. I have been using Benedryl at night, but
am concerned both that it both makes him sleepy and the use long-term
effect. Will work more on trying to isolate the source of the irritant(s)
as well as taking a look at Natural Balance products.

I hate to see "my guy" uncomfortable.

Mike

Mike and Me wrote in
0.224:

Shelly, thanks for the insight. I have been using Benedryl at
night, but am concerned both that it both makes him sleepy and the
use long-term effect.

Definitely something to talk to your vet about. S/he may be able to
recommend something that will have fewer side effects for your dog.
It's also something that should be able to be done over the phone.
Since your vet has already seen the dog for allergies, and knows what
you're trying to do treatment-wise, there shouldn't be any need to
take him in just for an antihistimine consultation.

Will work more on trying to isolate the
source of the irritant(s) as well as taking a look at Natural
Balance products.

Good luck! It can be a frustrating process, but I keep telling
myself that there is *some* combination of foods/meds out there that
will work.

I hate to see "my guy" uncomfortable.

Amen. Allergies suck!

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

Shelly wrote:
Mike and Me wrote in
0.224:

...... Need recommendation for premium "grainless" food I can use.

How about trying a diet dogs were meant to eat? There are no grains at
all in it.

" Dogs do not have the digestive system to cope with grains. Grains are
one of the biggest sources of allergies in dogs. Grains make up the
majority of dog food company food sources. Many people find when they
switch to an all natural diet, the allergies their dogs had disappear.
This is common.

Not only is feeding raw cheaper to feed than commercial dog foods, but
there are enormous savings to be made by not having all those vet visits
to fix your dogs' allergies. Are you asking yourself yet, "why hasn't my
vet recommended this?" Yes, I would ask that of them too. Unfortunately
most vets receive NO education at university on dog diet other than what
the commercial dog food company reps tell them! (yes, this is the
education they PAY to get - unbelievable. Luckily, some universities are
realizing this mistake and are making amends)."
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html



Figuring this out will likely require a little trial and error and a
lot of patience. Just going grainless will not help, if your dog is
actually allergic to the protein source in his food. I'd recommend a
limited ingredient diet that does not contain grains, nor, if possible,
any main ingredients that the dog has already been exposed to. You
want something novel.

How about a species appropriate diet? It shouldn't be novel but to some
of you it would be.


I've been dealing with a similar problem with my dog. No hot spots,
but she was chewing her feet and scratching constantly. I had already
tried several diet changes (they can take several weeks to make a
difference), but hadn't had a lasting improvement from any of them.

Chewing feet is a sign of a yeast infection, not an allergy. You need to
wash the dog with a sulfur shampoo, stop all carbs that are possible and
use colloidal silver to eliminate the yeast. This takes weeks or months.


I talked to my vet, who said that it could be the protien source, but
that could also be the carbohydrate source. She said that they're
seeing more dogs allergic to rice and lamb, as foods with those
ingredients have increased in popularity.

That's because rice is a carb. Dump the carbs first. It's much more
likely than a meat allergy, especially since kibble has such a tiny
amount of meat in it to begin with.


What I did was try a grain free, limited ingredient food. We started
out with Natural Balance venison and sweet potato. That helped. After
a few months, she was no longer itching, but she was still chewing her
feet.

Like I said, it's not an allergy, it's a yeast problem. If you don't
take steps to eradicate it there will be no longterm cure.

I then switched her to Natural Balance duck and potato, which
she's doing even better on. The only drawback has been that she smells
like smoked duck and french fries, a combination I'm not such a fan of.
It's also low in fat, and her coat has consequently become dry and
flaky. I've been supplementing with flax oil, since it's in her food,

Dogs can be allergic to flax too. Switch to a fish body oil and some
natural vitamin E.

but it's still too early to tell if it's going to help. If it doesn't,
I'm going to have to look for a different food, and the fun will start
all over again!

Just dump all of it and get yourself a bag of chicken leg quarters.
Simple enough beginning! Feed those for two weeks and see what the
results are. However, if it's yeast you need to do more to make it go away.


Keep in mind, too, that a dog with food allergies can become allergic
to something he hasn't previously had an allergy to. It's possible
that you'll find a food he tolerates well, only to find out a few years
from now that he can no longer eat it. At that point, you'll have to
do another trial-and-error search for a new food. This is why,
consequently, I would avoid giving healthy dogs foods with novel
ingredients. If you do that, you'll have nothing to fall back on if
your dog develops an allergy.

Feeding meat gives you single sources of food so allergies are easier to
figure out.


Something else to consider is talking to your vet about medication. My
vet put my dog on a two-week course of prednisone. I'm not a fan of
pred, because it has some serious side-effects, but it has its place.
I'm glad we put her on it, though, because it gave her system a chance
to stop reacting.

Prednisone does nothing but hide the problem. It's what vets give out
because they don't want to take the time to find the real source.


For more long-term use, my vet recommended Benadryl 3x/day.

Benadryl is also nothing but a temp fix. Again, it doesn't fix the
problem, it just hides it.

There are
other antihistimines that can be used in dogs, some that might work
better and some not so well (e.g. Chlortrimeton and Zyrtec). It's a
matter of talking to your vet and finding the right one at the right
dosage for your dog.


Or better yet, find the allergy source and get it out of the diet!

In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:
How about trying a diet dogs were meant to eat?

Hey, Mike, this person's a crank. Take a look at her
posting history before following her advice.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

chardonnay9 wrote in
m:

" Dogs do not have the digestive system to cope with grains.
Grains are one of the biggest sources of allergies in dogs.

We've had this "discussion" before, Chard. If you don't know what
the dog is allergic to, just eliminating grains is not the answer.
What if the dog is allergic to beef? Chicken? Turkey? Just
switching to raw beef, chicken, or turkey will not magically make the
dog any less allergic to that ingredient.

Grains make up the majority of dog food company food sources. Many
people find when they switch to an all natural diet, the allergies
their dogs had disappear. This is common.

And yet, switching my dog to a grain free (I haven't a clue what you
mean by "all natural") diet did not automagically stop her food
allergies.

I think it's pretty low to exploit someone's problem in order to push
your personal agenda. Really, really low.

And to Mike--what Melinda said. Chard is a kook, and following her
advice could really harm your dog.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

In article ,
Shelly wrote:
And yet, switching my dog to a grain free (I haven't a clue what you
mean by "all natural")

Oh, you know - in the land of The Beet, "all natural" ==
"grain free."

I'm curious to know how she knows for a fact that grains
make up the majority of dog food company food sources. I
expect that she doesn't know it for a fact but just made it
up, in keeping with her posting history.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

(Melinda Shore) wrote in news:gi12rp$9m$1
@panix2.panix.com:

I expect that she doesn't know it for a fact but just made it up,
in keeping with her posting history.

I've come to the conclusion that she doesn't really understand half
of what she writes. She's just stringing words together in an
arrangement that she finds aesthetically pleasing.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

Wow did I open a can of worms .... lots of good stuff here though. Useful
as I continue to work on isolating the "real" problem ... much thanks to
all for your input (including Shelly)

Best Regards

Mike