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KillFiles Needed



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 16th 08, 06:33 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Mediasetnews
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Posts: 5
Default KillFiles Needed


Usenet 101: if it's cross-posted to more than two newsgroups
it's probably not relevant to any of them.

Noted!


--
--------------------------------- --- -- -
Posted with NewsLeecher v3.9 Final
Web @ http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet
------------------- ----- ---- -- -

  #2  
Old December 16th 08, 06:37 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Shore
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Posts: 7,732
Default KillFiles Needed

In article ,
Mediasetnews wrote:
Noted!


Note this (a programmer is telling you):

1) breaking threading is anti-social. Learn how to use
follow-ups properly
2) Enough of us who participate in Usenet still rely on
command-line interfaces in terminal emulators that
setting line length greater than 80 characters is
... anti-social. 70 is a nice number.
3) anti-social behavior gets you killfiled. And it would
crack me the hell up if your overly enthusiastic pursuit
of killfiles got you killfiled.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #3  
Old December 16th 08, 06:44 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
shelly
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Posts: 6,155
Default KillFiles Needed

"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...

1) breaking threading is anti-social. Learn how to use
follow-ups properly


This is actually something he should seriously think about. (Not that
the rest isn't important.) If they're filtering out Howedy, fine,
because no one follows up to his posts with anything even remotely
useful. But, if they're filtering out great chunks from this group, I
wonder how appealing the end result will be.

And I'm still unclear on *why* a Swiss-cheesy web portal will be a
desirable alternative. If people want on-topic information without all
the wackos and thread drift, then they can already search Google's
archive.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

  #4  
Old December 16th 08, 06:58 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Shore
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Posts: 7,732
Default KillFiles Needed

In article ,
Shelly wrote:
And I'm still unclear on *why* a Swiss-cheesy web portal will be a
desirable alternative. If people want on-topic information without all
the wackos and thread drift, then they can already search Google's
archive.


One of the things I learned looking at Google this morning
is that Google splits up a thread into a certain number of
articles-per-page, and Jerry's posts are long. Really,
really, really long. Which means that if you go into an
unfiltered page-oriented webbie mess most of what you're
going to see is Jerry's. Plus, a lot of people don't know
how to specify filters or don't want to learn, etc.
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/store/imgs/regex_square_0.png). I'm
personally not interested but I think there's probably a
(small) market for this kind of thing. I think the bigger
challenge is the impending demise of Usenet, or whatever.
I'm not sure there are that many people that care about
Usenet anymore, except possibly as a way to transmit pirated
media.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #5  
Old December 16th 08, 07:08 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
shelly
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Posts: 6,155
Default KillFiles Needed

"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...

Which means that if you go into an
unfiltered page-oriented webbie mess most of what you're
going to see is Jerry's.


I don't see Jerry when using Google, because I use tree view with
collapsed posts. That said, they've recently done some really unhelpful
things to their search interface.

Plus, a lot of people don't know
how to specify filters or don't want to learn, etc.
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/store/imgs/regex_square_0.png).


That's over my math-challenged head, but Google makes it pretty easy to
specify what you do and don't want. I think you'd have to try pretty
hard to get overwhelmed with Howespew, but maybe I underestimate typical
users?

I think the bigger
challenge is the impending demise of Usenet, or whatever.


It was a busy place when I first found it, but it's definitely gotten
kind of, um, cozy over the past few years.

I'm not sure there are that many people that care about
Usenet anymore, except possibly as a way to transmit pirated
media.


And that's getting harder and harder, as more providers dump Usenet.
Most of the alternatives I know of don't carry binary groups.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

  #6  
Old December 16th 08, 07:10 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
shelly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,155
Default KillFiles Needed

"Shelly" wrote in message
...

maybe I underestimate typical users?


Or maybe I overestimate them. I guess it's a matter of perspective!

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

  #7  
Old December 16th 08, 07:11 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Wingnut[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 81
Default KillFiles Needed


"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Shelly wrote:
And I'm still unclear on *why* a Swiss-cheesy web portal will be a
desirable alternative. If people want on-topic information without all
the wackos and thread drift, then they can already search Google's
archive.


One of the things I learned looking at Google this morning
is that Google splits up a thread into a certain number of
articles-per-page, and Jerry's posts are long. Really,
really, really long. Which means that if you go into an
unfiltered page-oriented webbie mess most of what you're
going to see is Jerry's. Plus, a lot of people don't know
how to specify filters or don't want to learn, etc.
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/store/imgs/regex_square_0.png). I'm
personally not interested but I think there's probably a
(small) market for this kind of thing. I think the bigger
challenge is the impending demise of Usenet, or whatever.
I'm not sure there are that many people that care about
Usenet anymore, except possibly as a way to transmit pirated
media.


ISPs, and I use the term loosely 8^), are increasingly dropping their
newsgroup service, so anybody who doesn't find an independent service is
saying bye bye. So yeah, Usenet is probably going to be a shadow of its
former self.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community



  #8  
Old December 16th 08, 07:16 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Shore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,732
Default KillFiles Needed

In article ,
Wingnut wrote:
ISPs, and I use the term loosely 8^), are increasingly dropping their
newsgroup service, so anybody who doesn't find an independent service is
saying bye bye.


Right. I've recently had several meetings with people from
"content providers" (film companies, basically) who are
interested in getting service providers to deploy technology
to detect protected content on the wire and do one of
several things in response when it's detected. They said
that they basically got Comcast and a few others to drop
Usenet entirely because of the way the binary newsgroups are
being used to transport copyrighted material.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #9  
Old December 17th 08, 12:01 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Ted Mittelstaedt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 68
Default KillFiles Needed


"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Wingnut wrote:
ISPs, and I use the term loosely 8^), are increasingly dropping their
newsgroup service, so anybody who doesn't find an independent service is
saying bye bye.


Right. I've recently had several meetings with people from
"content providers" (film companies, basically) who are
interested in getting service providers to deploy technology
to detect protected content on the wire and do one of
several things in response when it's detected. They said
that they basically got Comcast and a few others to drop
Usenet entirely because of the way the binary newsgroups are
being used to transport copyrighted material.


As I am the chief technical head of an ISP I am pretty confident
in explaining this is unmitigated nonsense. Bittorrent today
transports an order of magnitude greater amount of copyrighted
content than Usenet ever could and that is what the film industry
is really worried about.

The film companies would have everyone believe the world revolves
around them. As for wire-sniffing technology, this is fantasy-land,
film industry people are some of the biggest BSers around. If they
knew anything at all about the Internet they wouldn't have problems
with illegal movie distribution they are having now.

The amounts of data that are processed by the major ISP's are
awesomly large. And I mean BIG. Not perhaps as big as your
typical film company executive's ego, but close. ;-)

In order to "detect" anything you have to examine all that data going
through the "wire" in the ISP. Well, the ISP's are currently MERELY
ROUTING that data (and all routing does is take the traffic from one
wire and send it out to another) with hardware that costs in the $100K
range - for a single device, not including the yearly service contracts -
and any ISP has to spare out routers, besides.

So to build this content filter, you START with at least of $100K of
hardware JUST TO MOVE THE TRAFFIC. Then add lots and lots
and lots of more CPU processing power to look inside the traffic
and examine it. And since this magical mythical filtering box that
doesen't currently exist isn't going to sell near as many units as a
major router model, it's a special-built device that's going to cost
quadruple.

Only governments have that kind of money - the only filtering of
this magnitude currently going on on the Internet are the secret black
boxes the NSA puts on the overseas Internet links to look for
spies sending data - and overseas links carry a far less amount of
data than domestic links.

The REAL reason a number of ISPs are dropping Usenet (more
specifically, the binary groups in Usenet) is simply that they consume
an enormous amout of bandwidth that is mostly wasted.

For example someone posts a DVD iso on Usenet. To do so they
have to break it up into, say 500 postings. If a couple of those get lost,
the entire group of 500 is worthless. But, that group of 500 is 4GB of
data right there - data that has done nothing for nobody - not even
the illegal pirates - all it's done is cost the service provider money to
relay!

So what happened is the service providers got together a few years back
with the State of New York and created this rubbish bullcrap cover story
about
fighting child porn. You can read about it he

http://www.nystopchildporn.com/

A list of who's doing it and what is affected is he

http://www.big-8.org/dokuwiki/doku.p...binary_problem

This allowed the ISP's to either chop out all binary groups or dump Usenet
entirely, while giving their pissed-off customers an excuse that would
somewhat mollify them.

Ted


  #10  
Old December 17th 08, 12:16 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Shore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,732
Default KillFiles Needed

In article ,
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
As I am the chief technical head of an ISP I am pretty confident
in explaining this is unmitigated nonsense.


They know that. This was a gesture on Comcast's part and
showboating on Andrew Cuomo's. The media companies are all
over them.

In order to "detect" anything you have to examine all that data going
through the "wire" in the ISP.


Well, yes and no. There are several different approaches to
the problem, only a few of which require observing all the
data in a given flow.

Well, the ISP's are currently MERELY
ROUTING that data (and all routing does is take the traffic from one
wire and send it out to another) with hardware that costs in the $100K
range - for a single device, not including the yearly service contracts -
and any ISP has to spare out routers, besides.


I believe the argument is that ISPs are making money by
selling services that include allowing users to move data.
And if you're doing any firewalling at all you're already
filtering content.

So to build this content filter, you START with at least of $100K of
hardware JUST TO MOVE THE TRAFFIC. Then add lots and lots
and lots of more CPU processing power to look inside the traffic
and examine it. And since this magical mythical filtering box that
doesen't currently exist [ ... ]


It does exist, actually, and we're working on applications
of fast filtering technology. We know how to do extremely
fast filtering. The issues here have less to do with
technology than it does with the business case and right now
there's not a business case for ISPs to do this. This may
or may not change depending on changes in the regulatory and
legal environment as well as whether or not ISPs want to get
into the business of selling content themselves (detect
protected content, offer the user the opportunity to buy it
legally with the ISP brokering it).

The regulatory situation is, clearly, very different in
other countries than in the US.

Only governments have that kind of money - the only filtering of
this magnitude currently going on on the Internet are the secret black
boxes the NSA puts on the overseas Internet links to look for
spies sending data - and overseas links carry a far less amount of
data than domestic links.


Wow. Ted! That's a little incorrect, don't you think?
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
 




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