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Vaccination risks (was: Carbs cause arthritis)



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 1st 09, 09:30 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,rec.pets.dogs.behavior
sionnach
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 825
Default Vaccination risks (was: Carbs cause arthritis)


"Tara Green" wrote:


Sure. Some do.


As I understand it, that usually NOT on first adminsitration though, if
vaccinations are spaced out properly. The main problems are due to
over-vaccination - giving too many vaccines at once, and/or giving boosteres
too frequently.

And that's why I don't do annual vaccines.


Exactly. The ONLY vaccination my dogs get annually is bordatella; they
have too much exposure to other dogs not to keep up with that one. I'm still
debating whether to have Cen inoculated against Lymes.

SO stop being lazy and irresponsible in your borad, all encompassing
statements. There are absolutely some vaccines that even the most extreme
naturopaths recommend. For you to deny ALL vaccines and lump them all in
the "no" category is the sort of thing that spreads misinformation and
gets animals killed.



Yep. And it can kill people, too, if one of the vaccs not done at all is
rabies.

Despite the fact that I firmly believe rabies vaccinations killed Rocsi, I
just helped talk a friend INTO giving her new puppy the appropriate rabies
vaccinations on schedule. Here's the e-mail I sent to our agility club's
discussion list (she'd posted there asking for opinions/advice ):

" As many of you know, I believe that rabies shots - specifically, her
second adult booster shot - killed my Jack Russell, Rocsi, at the age of 5
( by precipitating IMHA and then sarcoma of the bone marrow). And I've just
had a go-round with my vet regarding my refusal to give Cenau a rabies
booster on his last visit - the conclusion of which is that she thinks I'm
nuts, but understands how I feel & agreed to run a rabies titer instead.

But if I were raising a baby puppy, I ABSOLUTELY would do the first puppy
shot for rabies as scheduled!
Why?

1) Rabies is common and widespread among many wild animal species in this
area, including racooons and foxes - which are found everywhere, including
in Baltimore City. I have personally witnessed a rabid raccoon staggering
down the middle of Charles Street. Rabies is also found in bats, which
freqently get into human dwellings.
2) Rabies is untreatable once symptoms appear, and it's 100% fatal.
3) Rabies is zoonotic - and #2 applies to human beings, as well.

Whether or not I'd do the next shots as scheduled would depend on the
puppy's reaction to the first shot. Rocsi got extremely ill from her first
shot - ran a high fever and was letharigic for more than 24 hours, and
developed a gigantic lump at the injection site (approx. 4" long, 1.5" wide,
and .75" high), which took nearly 2 weeks to go down. (I have photographs.)
I've since found out that she was most likely overdosed; at that age (3.5
months) she only weighed 4.5 lbs, but vets don't adjust the amount of
vaccine to the puppy's size.
Because of her extreme reaction to the puppy shot, I delayed her adult
booster by a few months - to the outside limit of the time the first should
have provided immunity - but I still had it done.

Where I feel I made my mistake with Rocsi was in not titering when her
second adult booster was due.
There's a substantial body of research showing that ADULT rabies shots
provide immunity for 5 to 7 years, and a bit over 3 years was most likely
too short an interval for Rocsi. The problem is, the laws on rabies
inoculation haven't kept up with the research. However, there's now a study
being done at the University of Wisconsin to definitively determine the
length of immunity, with the intent of then challenging and changing the
current laws. http://www.rabieschallengefund.org

(I know many people disagree with Jean Dodds about things, and I'm not
exactly a fan, but this study is important, and she's not directly involved
with it, AFIAK.)

Regarding Cenau - there are two strong reasons why I've insisted on titers
for him. The first is that he's half Jack Russell, and Rocsi is not the only
JRT I know of who died after a second adult rabies shot. The second is that
it's very possible he's already had two adult rabies shots.
The Cecil Co. SPCA refused to give me any information on how he got to the
shelter, but it's my belief (based on his behaviour and level of
socialization) that his first owner most likely took decent physical care of
him, and cared about him in general to some extent. If that care extended to
giving him rabies shots, then the shot he was given at the CCSPCA a year ago
(when his second owner adopted him) WAS his second adult shot. If it was the
first shot he ever got, everything I've read says it should give him
immunity for at least 3 years, and probably longer.

Having said all that... if his rabies titer comes back showing lack of
immunity, I will inoculate. No question."

I sent a P.S. a few minutes later:

"I forgot to mention that anyone who chooses to titer for rabies should make
sure they know what their local laws are regarding a dog who bites a human
and has "lapsed" rabies shots. The odds of one of my dogs biting someone are
astronomically low, but even so I know that in Baltimore County the rule is
that the dog must be quarantined in the owner's home. (This happened to my
idiot neighbor up the street, who allowed her intact dog-aggressive male to
roam free; he bit another neighbor when she tried to defend her dog against
him.)

In other areas, the law may require the dog to be siezed and tested... which
means killing the dog."


  #2  
Old June 1st 09, 09:43 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Shore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,732
Default Vaccination risks (was: Carbs cause arthritis)

In article ,
sionnach wrote:

Hi - I think that given the givens it's best if this thread
isn't cross-posted.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #3  
Old June 3rd 09, 01:16 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health,rec.pets.dogs.behavior
chardonnay9
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,054
Default Vaccination risks

sionnach wrote:
"Tara Green" wrote:


Sure. Some do.


As I understand it, that usually NOT on first adminsitration though, if
vaccinations are spaced out properly. The main problems are due to
over-vaccination - giving too many vaccines at once, and/or giving boosteres
too frequently.


Boosters do not boost immunity. Once an animal has immunity it will not
change no matter how many boosters are given.


And that's why I don't do annual vaccines.


Exactly. The ONLY vaccination my dogs get annually is bordatella; they
have too much exposure to other dogs not to keep up with that one. I'm still
debating whether to have Cen inoculated against Lymes.

SO stop being lazy and irresponsible in your borad, all encompassing
statements. There are absolutely some vaccines that even the most extreme
naturopaths recommend. For you to deny ALL vaccines and lump them all in
the "no" category is the sort of thing that spreads misinformation and
gets animals killed.


That's a flat out lie.




Yep. And it can kill people, too, if one of the vaccs not done at all is
rabies.

Despite the fact that I firmly believe rabies vaccinations killed Rocsi, I
just helped talk a friend INTO giving her new puppy the appropriate rabies
vaccinations on schedule. Here's the e-mail I sent to our agility club's
discussion list (she'd posted there asking for opinions/advice ):

" As many of you know, I believe that rabies shots - specifically, her
second adult booster shot - killed my Jack Russell, Rocsi, at the age of 5
( by precipitating IMHA and then sarcoma of the bone marrow). And I've just
had a go-round with my vet regarding my refusal to give Cenau a rabies
booster on his last visit - the conclusion of which is that she thinks I'm
nuts, but understands how I feel & agreed to run a rabies titer instead.

But if I were raising a baby puppy, I ABSOLUTELY would do the first puppy
shot for rabies as scheduled!
Why?

1) Rabies is common and widespread among many wild animal species in this
area, including racooons and foxes - which are found everywhere, including
in Baltimore City. I have personally witnessed a rabid raccoon staggering
down the middle of Charles Street. Rabies is also found in bats, which
freqently get into human dwellings.


There were no dogs with rabies in Maryland or Baltimore City in 2009 and
2008. There were two raccoons with rabies in Baltimore City in 2009 an
only 8 in 2008. There were only 13 cases of rabies in all animals in all
of Baltimore City in 2008.
http://www.edcp.org/vet_med/rabies_2000s.cfm

The travesty is that the risk of contracting rabies is almost
nonexistent in Baltimore City yet the vets don't want you to know that
because it would cost them money.

If a raccoon was staggering down Charles St it is highly likely it was
in one of the many nightclubs found there (been there, done that).

I have personally trudged through the alleys of Baltimore in the middle
of the night feeding and trapping cats and dogs. I also know how totally
incompetent Animal Control is in Baltimore having dealt with them as well.


2) Rabies is untreatable once symptoms appear, and it's 100% fatal.
3) Rabies is zoonotic - and #2 applies to human beings, as well.

Whether or not I'd do the next shots as scheduled would depend on the
puppy's reaction to the first shot. Rocsi got extremely ill from her first
shot - ran a high fever and was letharigic for more than 24 hours, and
developed a gigantic lump at the injection site (approx. 4" long, 1.5" wide,
and .75" high), which took nearly 2 weeks to go down. (I have photographs.)
I've since found out that she was most likely overdosed; at that age (3.5
months) she only weighed 4.5 lbs, but vets don't adjust the amount of
vaccine to the puppy's size.


Not only that but the rabies vaccine contains 3 times the dose
supposedly needed to create immunity.

Because of her extreme reaction to the puppy shot, I delayed her adult
booster by a few months - to the outside limit of the time the first should
have provided immunity - but I still had it done.


That was a huge mistake. Once a dog has a bad reaction to a shot it
should never have that shot ever again. Your vet should have known that
but greed prevents the truth from becoming known. And there is no such
thing as a "booster". All it does is increase the chance of developing
an auto-immune disease.
http://www.caberfeidh.com/Revax.htm


Where I feel I made my mistake with Rocsi was in not titering when her
second adult booster was due.


Titering is useless if there has been no exposure to whatever disease
the shot is supposed to prevent. Your dog can be immune and it not show
on the titer.

There's a substantial body of research showing that ADULT rabies shots
provide immunity for 5 to 7 years, and a bit over 3 years was most likely
too short an interval for Rocsi. The problem is, the laws on rabies
inoculation haven't kept up with the research. However, there's now a study
being done at the University of Wisconsin to definitively determine the
length of immunity, with the intent of then challenging and changing the
current laws. http://www.rabieschallengefund.org


Don't you wonder why the manufacturers of these shots don't research it
themselves? Because it would put them out of business.


(I know many people disagree with Jean Dodds about things, and I'm not
exactly a fan, but this study is important, and she's not directly involved
with it, AFIAK.)


Yes, it's extremely important.


Regarding Cenau - there are two strong reasons why I've insisted on titers
for him. The first is that he's half Jack Russell, and Rocsi is not the only
JRT I know of who died after a second adult rabies shot. The second is that
it's very possible he's already had two adult rabies shots.
The Cecil Co. SPCA refused to give me any information on how he got to the
shelter, but it's my belief (based on his behaviour and level of
socialization) that his first owner most likely took decent physical care of
him, and cared about him in general to some extent. If that care extended to
giving him rabies shots, then the shot he was given at the CCSPCA a year ago
(when his second owner adopted him) WAS his second adult shot. If it was the
first shot he ever got, everything I've read says it should give him
immunity for at least 3 years, and probably longer.

Having said all that... if his rabies titer comes back showing lack of
immunity, I will inoculate. No question."

I sent a P.S. a few minutes later:

"I forgot to mention that anyone who chooses to titer for rabies should make
sure they know what their local laws are regarding a dog who bites a human
and has "lapsed" rabies shots. The odds of one of my dogs biting someone are
astronomically low, but even so I know that in Baltimore County the rule is
that the dog must be quarantined in the owner's home. (This happened to my
idiot neighbor up the street, who allowed her intact dog-aggressive male to
roam free; he bit another neighbor when she tried to defend her dog against
him.)

In other areas, the law may require the dog to be siezed and tested... which
means killing the dog."


 




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