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oops another puppy wizzard question [jerry]



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 11th 03, 03:50 PM
Rosa Palmén
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Default oops another puppy wizzard question [jerry]


"chris" wrote in message
...
Sorry to bug you again, but I forgot to ask you another question. How do i
ease tension between the dogs ? The older one (who we have had for longer)
tends to try to get some of the new dogs thunder. We give them both the

same
amount of attention and love, but whenever the new dog comes to us the old
dog snarls at it like she is being protective of us and not wanting the

new
pup to get any attention. How can we stop this ? They also run around and
jump on each other and hit each other with their paws and mouth each other
but i assume this is normal playing between the dogs ? thanks again for

your
help!


Hi Chris,

I just thought i'd tell you to go ahead and read Jerry's posts and advice if
you feel like it, but do remember to use your own common sense with your
dogtraining. Jerry seems to like to tell ppl to do everything exactly the
way it is done in his manual, and anything that doesn't work he says doesn't
work because you haven't followed his manual exactly. He also seems to
refuse to give advice, only tells people to read the manual again - he also
refuses to explain any of the methods used in the manual.
So i guess my advice is to not let him intimidate you, and don't do anything
with your dogs that you feel uncomfortable doing - at least not until you
have gotten a satisfactory explanation on why you should do it.
I must admit I have Jerry blocked, but i didn't block his posts at once, i
gave him the benefit of the doubt for quite some time - but he just posts
too much crap - and i don't see why he can't ask his successtories to post
for themselves, it just seems a little bit fishy that the almost the only
praising he ever gets, is in his own posts

Rosa


  #2  
Old July 11th 03, 04:18 PM
Gwen Watson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



"Rosa Palmén" wrote:

i don't see why he can't ask his successtories to post
for themselves, it just seems a little bit fishy that the almost the only
praising he ever gets, is in his own posts

Rosa


Bravo Rosa for a most excellent and well thought out
post.

Gwen

  #3  
Old July 15th 03, 05:32 AM
Linda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Rosa Palmén" wrote in message ...
"chris" wrote in message
...
Sorry to bug you again, but I forgot to ask you another question. How do i
ease tension between the dogs ? The older one (who we have had for longer)
tends to try to get some of the new dogs thunder. We give them both the

same
amount of attention and love, but whenever the new dog comes to us the old
dog snarls at it like she is being protective of us and not wanting the

new
pup to get any attention. How can we stop this ? They also run around and
jump on each other and hit each other with their paws and mouth each other
but i assume this is normal playing between the dogs ? thanks again for

your
help!


Hi Chris,

I just thought i'd tell you to go ahead and read Jerry's posts and advice if
you feel like it, but do remember to use your own common sense with your
dogtraining. Jerry seems to like to tell ppl to do everything exactly the
way it is done in his manual, and anything that doesn't work he says doesn't
work because you haven't followed his manual exactly. He also seems to
refuse to give advice, only tells people to read the manual again - he also
refuses to explain any of the methods used in the manual.
So i guess my advice is to not let him intimidate you, and don't do anything
with your dogs that you feel uncomfortable doing - at least not until you
have gotten a satisfactory explanation on why you should do it.
I must admit I have Jerry blocked, but i didn't block his posts at once, i
gave him the benefit of the doubt for quite some time - but he just posts
too much crap - and i don't see why he can't ask his successtories to post
for themselves, it just seems a little bit fishy that the almost the only
praising he ever gets, is in his own posts

Rosa


I am one of Jerry's success stories and I post myself--I have worked
with Jerry for the last six months and have always found him willing
to talk and explain his methods and give advise. For me his method
works--nothing else did-so i can not be more happy and pleased that
Jerry is trying to help dogs and their owners. His methods are
totally positive with no pain, fear or punishment so why is every one
so down on this method??? I am sure most of the people saying he is
mental have never tried his methods to see if they work.

Seems interesting that this original post was about how well his
approach for separation anxiey worked but no one was interested in
learning more about the subject instead spent all the time discussing
Jerry's mental health. It seems to me all of you are mentally ill
rather than Jerry who has helped so many of us!!!!!!!
  #4  
Old July 15th 03, 12:12 PM
Dimpled Chad
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Posts: n/a
Default

On 14 Jul 2003, Linda opined:

His methods are
totally positive with no pain, fear or punishment so why is every one
so down on this method???


"Every one" has already commented and countered the idea that there is "no
pain" with this "positive punishment" method, your statements to the contrary
notwithstanding.

I am sure most of the people saying he is
mental have never tried his methods to see if they work.


Whether he is mentally ill or not is not related to the efficacy of "his
methods," as you know, though some have claimed that his postings and
the inference gained from them (whatever that may be) should lead one to
pause and ponder over the claims that he offers regarding his purported
panacea. I am in complete agreement with the later statement.

What your post does suggest, though, is that you didn't ponder carefully the
arguments made about him and his posts here. That's too bad, Linda. All
you've offered is a regurgation of platitudes Jerry is offering (see the
first sentence quoted above). You've missed where people point others towards
praise and distraction (as well as other) techniques, some of which are used
by WETM, but proffered by more reliable and less abusive sources.

Seems interesting that this original post was about how well his
approach for separation anxiey worked but no one was interested in


Doesn't seem interesting at all to me.... Crap by and/or about Jerry fills
these virtual halls daily. Blah blah blah...

learning more about the subject instead spent all the time discussing
Jerry's mental health. It seems to me all of you are mentally ill
rather than Jerry who has helped so many of us!!!!!!!


Then you *clearly* haven't read or absorbed any of Jerry's postings here.

Maybe you could re-read them, and pay careful attention to how he hurls
invective at *anyone* not sucking up to him (as you are now). Particularly
vile is the way he mocks injured or dead companion pets and their owners,
especially when they are in the midst of grief.

That you want to align yourslef with that is your matter (the drive-by DDR
adverts are another thing, and I find it sad that you didn't respond to ample
questions when you came by several months ago and are being mostly dismissed
and ignored now because of that). If its not mental illness than its
intentional harm, which is in itself bad enough for anyone to dismiss his
claims of wanting to aid pets and their humans.

Chad

--
Looking for a pet? Adopt one! ** http://www.petfinder.com
Info for a healthy, happy dog? * http://www.dog-play.com


Their very silence is a loud cry. - Cicero






  #6  
Old July 15th 03, 07:24 PM
Marshall Dermer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article
(Linda) writes:
Seems interesting that this original post was about how well his
approach for separation anxiey worked but no one was interested in
learning more about the subject instead spent all the time discussing
Jerry's mental health. It seems to me all of you are mentally ill
rather than Jerry who has helped so many of us!!!!!!!


What a cheap, prejudiced shot!

People with mental illness can be very competent and effective in
most settings. The person with a phobia, for example, does well
except when exposed to particular forms of stimulation.

People with a bi-polar diagnosis are often fine except when suffering
a mood swing.

Then, of course, we must recognize that most Americans are neurotic
in one way or another. A neurotic, for the record, is someone who
has learned to behave anxiously.

Just keep on reading how Jerry treats people on rpdb and you will see
why people have come to focus on Jerry and not his canine
training advice or device.

--Marshall

__________________________________________________ ___________

I have read rpdb for about seven years. Consequently, I urge newbies to
attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb regulars from whom I have
learned much. They include: Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl, Diane
Blackman, jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy Holmes,
Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore, Robin
Nuttall, Denna Pace, John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, Jane
Webb, and Terri Willis.


Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis Specialty/
Department of Psychology/University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee/
Milwaukee, WI 53201

http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer

"From the time of early robust humans [about 100,000 years ago] to the
present, the human brain has stayed the same size." Ernst Mayr, _This is
Biology_, p. 240. Consequently, what separates us from those "early robust
humans" is culture!

  #7  
Old July 15th 03, 07:28 PM
Marshall Dermer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article Gwen Watson
writes:
Accidents happen. People are not perfect and one throwing a
coke can full of pennies at a dog is definately increasing their
chances of hitting the dog in the wrong place.

Gwen


Gwen,

Jerry does not advocate throwing anything at a dog. The shaking
of the can of pennies is used as a distraction that is then
followed with praise when the dog discontinues misbehaving.

If praise is a reinforcer, then in behavior analytic terms
this is a case of reinforcing other behavior with the other
behavior prompted by the noise from the pennies.

--Marshall

__________________________________________________ ___________

I have read rpdb for about seven years. Consequently, I urge newbies to attend
to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb regulars from whom I have
learned much. They include: Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl, Diane
Blackman, jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy Holmes,
Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore, Robin
Nuttall, Denna Pace, John Richardson, Melinda Shore, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig
Smith, Jane Webb, and Terri Willis.


Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis Specialty/
Department of Psychology/University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee/
Milwaukee, WI 53201
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer

"Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation,
and is thus a source of civilized delight." -- William Safire







  #8  
Old July 16th 03, 04:26 AM
Linda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dimpled Chad wrote in message . ..
On 14 Jul 2003, Linda opined:

His methods are
totally positive with no pain, fear or punishment so why is every one
so down on this method???


"Every one" has already commented and countered the idea that there is "no
pain" with this "positive punishment" method, your statements to the contrary
notwithstanding.

I am sure most of the people saying he is
mental have never tried his methods to see if they work.


Whether he is mentally ill or not is not related to the efficacy of "his
methods," as you know, though some have claimed that his postings and
the inference gained from them (whatever that may be) should lead one to
pause and ponder over the claims that he offers regarding his purported
panacea. I am in complete agreement with the later statement.

What your post does suggest, though, is that you didn't ponder carefully the
arguments made about him and his posts here. That's too bad, Linda. All
you've offered is a regurgation of platitudes Jerry is offering (see the
first sentence quoted above). You've missed where people point others towards
praise and distraction (as well as other) techniques, some of which are used
by WETM, but proffered by more reliable and less abusive sources.

Seems interesting that this original post was about how well his
approach for separation anxiey worked but no one was interested in


Doesn't seem interesting at all to me.... Crap by and/or about Jerry fills
these virtual halls daily. Blah blah blah...

learning more about the subject instead spent all the time discussing
Jerry's mental health. It seems to me all of you are mentally ill
rather than Jerry who has helped so many of us!!!!!!!


Then you *clearly* haven't read or absorbed any of Jerry's postings here.

Maybe you could re-read them, and pay careful attention to how he hurls
invective at *anyone* not sucking up to him (as you are now). Particularly
vile is the way he mocks injured or dead companion pets and their owners,
especially when they are in the midst of grief.

That you want to align yourslef with that is your matter (the drive-by DDR
adverts are another thing, and I find it sad that you didn't respond to ample
questions when you came by several months ago and are being mostly dismissed
and ignored now because of that). If its not mental illness than its
intentional harm, which is in itself bad enough for anyone to dismiss his
claims of wanting to aid pets and their humans.

Chad


Sorry I missed responding to previous post, but I stand by my
comments. I have met with Jerry and find him sane. He understands
dogs and helps owners help their dogs. I have never seen a post that
said the Wits End method had been tried and it failed.
  #9  
Old July 16th 03, 08:52 AM
Lynn K.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(Linda) wrote in message news:

I am one of Jerry's success stories and I post myself-


Linda, I tend to believe that you are a real person and have indeed
sought advice from Jerry and been pleased with the results with your
dog. However, I also believe that the reason you are satisfied is
that you have little to no training background and did not have
particularly high goals or expectations. IOW, it's a little hard to
measure the success you've had when it's not
reported in the way a trainer would measure it.
You say you're happy and I believe you, but that
really doesn't give us anything to go on in terms of testimonial.

His methods are
totally positive with no pain, fear or punishment so why is every one
so down on this method??? I am sure most of the people saying he is
mental have never tried his methods to see if they work.


Actually there is much in his manual that is at best counterproductive
to what is being taught and at worst, dangerous and damaging to the
dog.
You'd be wrong in assuming people haven't tried his methods - hell,
you'd be wrong in assuming that many aren't used by most trainers and
are unique or developed by him. But a whole lot of it is just
ridiculous to anyone who actually has experience. Don't assume that
the criticism levelled against him is based in ignorance or
unwillingness to change. I think everyone here regularly tries new
techniques and approaches eagerly (and regularly).

Seems interesting that this original post was about how well his
approach for separation anxiey worked but no one was interested in
learning more about the subject instead spent all the time discussing
Jerry's mental health.


Why would you assume that there was a need for
people to learn how to handle separation anxiety
from Jerry Howe, simply because they are critical
of his posting behavior? I haven't read his approach (because I don't
read his posts) but would propose a different interpretation - that
many of the regular posters have had a great deal of experience curing
separation anxiety and have reason to criticize his method, whatever
it is.

Lynn K.
 




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