How much dry food should my friends male 7yo Flatcoat need ? Weight is
36Kg. Gets walked fast for at least 20mins a day plus several games of
'tennis'. Free to roam around 5 acres most days except when they're
out. Has a collie cross as a companion.

Daytona wrote:
How much dry food should my friends male 7yo Flatcoat need ? Weight is
36Kg. Gets walked fast for at least 20mins a day plus several games of
'tennis'. Free to roam around 5 acres most days except when they're
out. Has a collie cross as a companion.

Dry food as in kibble? Dogs don't need any kibble at all. It's the
absolute worst food out there. I think your friend needs to do some
research to find what dogs as carnivores should eat, certainly not corn
and other grains. They need meat!

Even the premium kibbles out there have some major problems.

http://rawfed.com/myths/premium.html

1.) It is still a processed food. This means it has still been rendered,
overly cooked, overly processed, and still has artificial vitamins and
supplements added to it. Despite the claims of what went into this food
at the start, this means the ingredients are still of a poorer quality
when compared to fresh, whole, raw foods, and that problems associated
with artificial vitamins and minerals still exist: erratic growth
patterns, growth occurring too fast, the body not utilizing the
nutrients as well, etc. While the better quality foods certainly do
start with better materials, after processing these 'food' materials are
still of a lesser quality compared to the fresh, raw, real thing.

2.) It still is an unnatural food for our pets. Our dogs and cats are
not designed to eat processed food pellets regardless of how good of
quality these processed food pellets are. A premium kibble would be like
us eating a 'premium' cereal day in and day out; the premium cereal has
to be better for us than one of those cheaper cereals, right (think of
Raisin Bran versus Captain Crunch)?

3.) Premium kibbles still have a bunch of ingredients our pets do not
need and/or cannot utilize. Many premium kibbles contain a relatively
small amount of meat (usually from 'human quality' sources, but then it
is rendered into an unrecognizable 'foodstuff') even if meat is listed
as the first ingredient, because the rest of the ingredients combined
far outweigh the presence of the meat our carnivores need (remember,
meat, unless it says 'meat meal', is listed according to its wet weight.
When all that water has been cooked out of it, meat places considerably
further down on the ingredients list). Just read some of the labels.
Some sort of meat will be listed, but it is then followed by all sorts
of grains that are usually touted as more highly digestible than corn or
wheat (rice, oats, barley, millet, etc.), vegetables (yams, potatoes,
carrots, sweet potatoes, etc.), fruits (apples, pears, etc.) and
supplements (kelp powder, spirulina, lactobacillus bacteria, etc.), not
to mention all the artificial vitamins and minerals that need to be
added. Of course, the presence of the vegetables, fruits, and
supplements theoretically means that less artificial vitamins and
minerals can be added because the nutrients can be obtained from natural
sources, but how many of these natural sources are actually available to
the dog or cat? How much of these natural nutrients are destroyed and
rendered ineffective by the cooking process? Even with foods like EVO
that contain a high proportion of meat and no grain (it uses potatoes,
which are starchy and metabolize as such), the processed meat still is
inferior to the fresh, real thing. Think of a processed, cooked orange
versus a fresh, whole orange. Which one is better?

4.) The issue of periodontal disease still prevails. The pet still does
not get the beneficial, necessary teeth cleaning at each meal, so the
problem of a bacteria-laden mouth that stinks and provides a gateway for
bacteria, toxins, and collagenases to enter the body still exists. This
is, after all, one of the best and biggest reasons to feed a raw diet
with meaty bones.

5.) The animal still lacks the wonderful and necessary physical, mental,
and emotional workout provided by raw meaty bones. Although it is being
fed a premium kibble, your pet can undoubtedly still finish its meal in
record time, rather than having to work at its food for a half an hour
or more. Again, this translates to the body not being fully prepared to
receive food and digest it, so the food will just sit in the animal's
stomach until the parasympathetic nervous system kicks everything into gear.

6.) Premium kibbles are often more expensive that natural, fresh, raw
food. If you are dishing out that much money for a 'premium' processed
pet food, why not feed fresh, whole, raw food sources for less?

7.) You still have no control over what goes into your pet's body. Can
you be certain that what is on the ingredients list is what actually
enters your pet's body? Can you be certain of the quality of the
ingredients? What happened to these ingredients during the cooking process?

8.) The primary question still remains: how is a processed pet food
better for our animals than fresh, whole, raw foods?

On Sep 10, 7:57*am, Daytona wrote:
How much dry food should my friends male 7yo Flatcoat need ? Weight is
36Kg. Gets walked fast for at least 20mins a day plus several games of
'tennis'. Free to roam around 5 acres most days except when they're
out. Has a collie cross as a companion.

Probably the best way to figure that out is to have his vet evaluate
his body condition, then tell you if he needs more or fewer calories.
A simple weight doesn't necessarily tell us much since many breeds can
vary quite a bit in size, and what might be heavy for one dog of that
breed may be too thin on another of the same breed. If you can give
your vet the calorie content of the food, they may be able to tell
you an exact amount, other wise it could be a cycle of adjust feed,
weigh, evaluate condition, repeat... until the dog is at a condition
that the vet agrees is healthy--though most will also give guidelines
on what they are looking for vs. how the dog is now at the intial
consultation. Since I'm usually there regularly for checkups and
vaccinations anyway, it's no big deal for me to have them continue to
keep an eye on condition too. The vet offices I have used have also
allowed me to use their scale for spot checks without an appointment
or fee as long as I was a regular patient, I suspect most others will
too.

Foods vary way to much in calories per volume for us to just guess at
an amount, and the dog's overall condition is the best way to measure
regardless--much better than using the feeding guidelines on the bag,
or a generic "that breed should weigh x" figure. Whether the dog is
neutered can also make a difference to how much food they need.

Hope that helps,
--Glenn Lyford

In article
,
Daytona wrote:

How much dry food should my friends male 7yo Flatcoat need ? Weight is
36Kg. Gets walked fast for at least 20mins a day plus several games of
'tennis'. Free to roam around 5 acres most days except when they're
out. Has a collie cross as a companion.

No hard and fast amount, since different foods are different
calorically, his actual activity level is an influence, as is whether
72# (36kg) is an appropriate weight for that particular dog.

My 4yo 68# male golden gets 3c of California Natural Lamb per day. My
42# 2yo female Flatcoat gets 2.5c. Obviously, they have different
caloric needs. While they "technically" get about the same amount of
exercise (including with each other), they burn and utilize calories
differently.

Dogs should have waists. Depending on what they are asked to do in
life, thinner is generally better. I want to see ribs and definitely
feel them.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

On 10 Sep, 14:20, Janet Boss
wrote:

My 4yo 68# male golden gets 3c of California Natural Lamb per day. *My
42# 2yo female Flatcoat gets 2.5c.

Thanks - does c mean cans ?

He gets one and a quarter cup fulls of kibble a day. Is there a
condition guide available anywhere ?

I'm vaguely aware of the real meat arguments - over here in the UK the
UK BARF Club is at the forefront -
http://www.ukbarfclub.co.uk/

As for me, I regularly look after my friends dogs, hence my interest.

--
Daytona

In article
,
Daytona wrote:


Thanks - does c mean cans ?

cups.


He gets one and a quarter cup fulls of kibble a day. Is there a
condition guide available anywhere ?

there are some visual on the web - google and you should find some.
Most foods have charts on the bags and the recommendations are way high
and often don't take into account treats or activity level. Some better
foods do. What kind of kibble is he getting? Is the cup an actual
measuring cup (some people use other types of drinking cups and those
are not an actual cup measure). 1 1/4 measuring cups is very little for
a dog of that size unless he has a very slow metabolism.


I'm vaguely aware of the real meat arguments - over here in the UK the
UK BARF Club is at the forefront -
http://www.ukbarfclub.co.uk/

I've fed raw but also had trouble keeping weight on my male FCR without
going broke. He was only 60# as well, but a very slim build and high
metabolism.

As for me, I regularly look after my friends dogs, hence my interest.

Your friend should be making the decisions, but if you think the dog is
over or under weight, helping him out to determine appropriate feeding
may be a kind thing to do. OTOH, your assessment may not be on target
either.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com