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Obedience/Agility/Conformation...



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 15th 03, 04:28 PM
Emily Carroll
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Default Obedience/Agility/Conformation...

So what order do you teach in?

I'm finally getting my puppy late next month and want to do all three. I've
done modest levels of obedience & agility but never done conformation, and
the puppy will definitely be shown.

Sooo....

What order do you go in? Obviously not agility first, but...Is it easy for
a pup to understand the difference between obedience & conformation? Is it
something where you can get points in one ring and a leg a few hours later
in another without any problems, or is it difficult for a youngster to
understand the difference?

For agility, what venues are best for Labs, considering they'll try it but
they're nice big-boned dogs that aren't as fast as BC's and aren't as
precise as a Sheltie (or a BC, but saying it twice wasn't really sounding
right).

I'm *hoping* for a Can/Am/UKC Ch. UD and would *love* to add a hunting title
but have never hunted so...and would love to have some UKC obedience but
we'll see about that.

And even more wonderful, if I do get a puppy from either of the litters that
my breeder has now, it's first or second show will most likely be at Cobo.
I'm really glad I've done obedience there before.

Lab pup, BTW.

--
Emily Carroll
http://www.geocities.com/diamonds_in...yes/index.html



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  #2  
Old July 15th 03, 06:00 PM
Rusty Myers
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I'll jump in with what little I know. Agility you need to wait till the dog
is, but you seem to know that already. I would think conformation. Our GSD
club in Austin had a 4-9month category. I would think getting them used to
the ring early would be very good. Obedience training starts right away,
but I would try competition when I suspected the dog was ready. So probably
it would be second.

These are just my opinions though, not based on expertise.

--
Rusty Myers
Austin, TX

"Emily Carroll" wrote in message
...
So what order do you teach in?

I'm finally getting my puppy late next month and want to do all three.

I've
done modest levels of obedience & agility but never done conformation, and
the puppy will definitely be shown.

Sooo....

What order do you go in? Obviously not agility first, but...Is it easy

for
a pup to understand the difference between obedience & conformation? Is

it
something where you can get points in one ring and a leg a few hours later
in another without any problems, or is it difficult for a youngster to
understand the difference?

For agility, what venues are best for Labs, considering they'll try it but
they're nice big-boned dogs that aren't as fast as BC's and aren't as
precise as a Sheltie (or a BC, but saying it twice wasn't really sounding
right).

I'm *hoping* for a Can/Am/UKC Ch. UD and would *love* to add a hunting

title
but have never hunted so...and would love to have some UKC obedience but
we'll see about that.

And even more wonderful, if I do get a puppy from either of the litters

that
my breeder has now, it's first or second show will most likely be at Cobo.
I'm really glad I've done obedience there before.

Lab pup, BTW.

--
Emily Carroll
http://www.geocities.com/diamonds_in...yes/index.html



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  #3  
Old July 15th 03, 07:41 PM
Christy
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"Emily Carroll" wrote in message
...

What order do you go in? Obviously not agility first, but...Is it easy

for
a pup to understand the difference between obedience & conformation? Is

it
something where you can get points in one ring and a leg a few hours later
in another without any problems, or is it difficult for a youngster to
understand the difference?


Not having done conformation, my opinion is pretty useless g but I've
always heard that you can teach both at once and the dog figures out which
they will be doing by all the various "habits" that develop with each ring
(different collars, different handling etc.) I'm not sure a 6 month old
puppy will be as able to differentiate as an older more experienced dog,
though. I do know my breeders taught baiting a stand as pretty much the
first thing.


For agility, what venues are best for Labs, considering they'll try it but
they're nice big-boned dogs that aren't as fast as BC's and aren't as
precise as a Sheltie (or a BC, but saying it twice wasn't really sounding
right).


Assuming your Lab is going to be show lines, stockier and squatter (no
offense intended!) you'll probably be best off dealing with AKC and NADAC,
perhaps UKC and CPE if available in your region. USDAA has the highest jump
height and the courses are tight. NADAC offers the lowest jump height for a
big dog, and the courses are wide and flowing, but times are tight,
especially higher up. In AKC you may have to jump higher (in between NADAC
and USDAA) and courses are tight, but times more generous. Can't really say
about UKC and CPE except I've heard they are better for slower/beginner
dogs.
Hopefully you will be able to show and keep your dog in agility shape at the
same time. If not, hold off on agility till conformation is done, as a Lab
that is (how can I put this politely...) "fluffy" for success in
conformation is going to be way too "fluffy" for safely doing agility.


Christy


  #4  
Old July 15th 03, 07:44 PM
sionnach
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"Christy" wrote:

NADAC offers the lowest jump height for a
big dog, and the courses are wide and flowing, but times are tight,
especially higher up.


As a point of note, even when Brenin was running slowly due to
(undiagnosed) Lymes disease, he routinely made time in Elite Regular, and
had a reasonable Q rate in Elite Jumpers (after his jump height went down to
20") IF I handled him correctly.
And I have a friend who was reasonbly successful with a heavier-built Lab,
back in the days when the large dogs *didn't* have the option of jumping
20".

If not, hold off on agility till conformation is done, as a Lab
that is (how can I put this politely...) "fluffy" for success in
conformation is going to be way too "fluffy" for safely doing agility.


Absolutely. My friends who do conformation *and* agility see this as a
large issue- bluntly, the AKC conformation ring requires most breeds to be
overweight, and Labs are one of the breeds where the issue is the worst.


  #5  
Old July 15th 03, 08:33 PM
Andrea
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"Emily Carroll" wrote
snip
What order do you go in?


Common wisdom in the conformation arena seems to be conformation first.
"They" say that doing obedience will confuse the puppy and he will sit when
you want a stack. Also, "they" have said it's best to finish a dog as fast
as you can because he might get a scar or other appearance marring boo-boo.

I say, hogwash! I've never done competitive obedience or agility so my
answer is suspect but I've had people tell me you shouldn't even teach "sit"
to a show dog at all until it's finished, which is total BS. Since
conformation is my concentration in the competition area, I will teach
"stand" (stacking) and "stay" (hold that pose) before other commands. We
don't sit for cookies, we stand, etc. However dogs aren't dumb and can learn
lots of things at one time so I don't see why you can't work it all in.

Also, I don't believe in the whole "speed finish" thing. Sure, it's great if
it just happens but you can over do conformation just like any other sport.
You don't want the dog to burn out. Plus, it's nice to know a dog can still
win after it's matured rather than "having" to finish while it's a pup,
before it falls apart.


--
-Andrea Stone
Saorsa Basenjis
http://home1.gte.net/res0s12z/
The Trolls Nest - greenmen, goblins & gargoyle wall art
www.trollsnest.com



  #6  
Old July 16th 03, 01:23 AM
Melissa S. Frye
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"sionnach" wrote in message
...

As a point of note, even when Brenin was running slowly due to
(undiagnosed) Lymes disease, he routinely made time in Elite Regular, and
had a reasonable Q rate in Elite Jumpers (after his jump height went down

to
20") IF I handled him correctly.


I think Hunter may have Lyme - something is going on with the boy. He has
slowed down in the last two weeks and we can't find anything (no gait
uneveness sore points that sort of thing. . Tick titers on Thursday...

Absolutely. My friends who do conformation *and* agility see this as a
large issue- bluntly, the AKC conformation ring requires most breeds to be
overweight, and Labs are one of the breeds where the issue is the worst.


Honeslty while I wouldn't show one in agility weight (i.e. ribs clearly
visible) I think that I definilty would show one in less weight. If I think
the currect ring winning dogs aren't correct someone has to take the first
step in the right direction. The standard is more important than winning.

My lightly coated male cocker finished with a specialty major, and we all no
dogs out of coat can't win.


--
Melissa S. Frye
Skyrocket cockers www.mfrye.com/skyrocket/


  #7  
Old July 16th 03, 01:36 AM
Shelly & The Boys
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"Rocky" wrote in message
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Conformation? No idea, though I know people who title their
dogs young, and then often speuter before starting seriously
into agility. That way you won't be losing those entry fees
during inconvenient heat cycles.


You can do a lot of the focusing exercises used for both
obed. & agility for conformation too. Focus and attention
on the handler is very important.
And...while a lot of people start showing their dog right off
the bat and do end up getting them finished early, a lot of
people waste a lot of money going out on an immature dog.
Puppy class is one thing, but if you're showing an underdeveloped
male in an open class with a bunch of mature, steady males
you're going to have a tough time. Puppy class judges
are generally *way* more forgiving for puppy antics. Some
breeds (I think I might include Labs in that group, as well as
Collies, and Belgians...and most likely lots of other larger dogs
too) just take longer to mature, mentally & physically. It just
depends on the dog. Ask your breeder if her lines are quick
to mature, slow to mature, middle of the road.
Have fun with your new puppy! How exciting!
Shelly & The Boys


  #8  
Old July 16th 03, 03:17 AM
Emily Carroll
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Conformation? No idea, though I know people who title their
dogs young, and then often speuter before starting seriously
into agility. That way you won't be losing those entry fees
during inconvenient heat cycles.


I'm hopefully getting a boy, and he won't be neutered unless he develops
health problem, is old, or develops behavior problems (aggression, mainly,
or inappropriate marking). He'll be a co-own (if I get the pup I want, that
is).

~Emily


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  #9  
Old July 16th 03, 03:24 AM
Emily Carroll
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Puppy class is one thing, but if you're showing an underdeveloped
male in an open class with a bunch of mature, steady males
you're going to have a tough time.


The sire finished owner/handled (mostly) in under a year (AmCh, I'm speaking
of). The dam got most of her points owner-handled rather quickly...I think.
Sire is half the age of the dam, so I know more about him than the dam

I really just want to show, so I'm not too worried about wasting entry fees.
I can afford a weekend a month of showing on my own, I still need to talk
with his breeder. She'll make that type of decision.

Not sure what I should start working on and when, I've never had a puppy
before.

~Emily


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  #10  
Old July 16th 03, 04:16 AM
Emily Carroll
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*lol* I know. BF will be doing most of the housebreaking, unless he gets
off his lazy behind and finds a job. It'll be interesting, to say the
least. ALL my pets love him, which is odd, especially the cat who hates ALL
strangers has been madly in love with him since he came home.

The good news is that I see the breeder 2x weekly and will be taking him
with me on a regular basis, to give BF a break He's home 23/7 and I'm
home 12/7.

--
Emily Carroll
http://www.geocities.com/diamonds_in...yes/index.html


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