I bought her a couple of T bones - she has been good to me.

I think my dog must have been the runt of the litter - not that I care.

When ever I give her beef. I warm it it in the microwave on defrost
while I heat the fry pan at full heat.

I sear both sides for a couple of seconds.

I put it on the plate with some dry food.

She comes to the plate, sniffs, takes the steak and runs to the
backyard to eat it, as if someone is going to take it off her.

She has done this since she was a puppy.

On 4/7/2010 6:16 AM, Avid Fan wrote:
I bought her a couple of T bones - she has been good to me.

I think my dog must have been the runt of the litter - not that I care.

When ever I give her beef. I warm it it in the microwave on defrost
while I heat the fry pan at full heat.

I sear both sides for a couple of seconds.

Why? You are destroying the nutrients.


I put it on the plate with some dry food.

She comes to the plate, sniffs, takes the steak and runs to the backyard
to eat it, as if someone is going to take it off her.

She has done this since she was a puppy.


You see, even your dog knows what's good for her. Why not throw out the
dry food and go with more real meat?

Char

"Avid Fan" wrote in message
...
I bought her a couple of T bones - she has been good to me.

I think my dog must have been the runt of the litter - not that I care.

When ever I give her beef. I warm it it in the microwave on defrost while
I heat the fry pan at full heat.

I sear both sides for a couple of seconds.

I put it on the plate with some dry food.

She comes to the plate, sniffs, takes the steak and runs to the backyard
to eat it, as if someone is going to take it off her.

She has done this since she was a puppy.

This does not seem very unusual or funny. Muttley takes his raw marrow
bones, (and other high-value treats or food that takes more than one or two
chomps to eat), to his dog bed to chew. If he is outside, he will take such
items to the end of his tether. I don't think he would easily give such
items back to me, and I don't try, but I'm also quite sure that he would not
intentionally bite me if I took it away. He will bring marrow bones to me on
command, but usually the marrow is gone or too deep in the bone for him to
reach. And he knows that I will dig the marrow loose and give it back to
him.

There is probably no need to defrost the steak or to sear it in the fry pan.
Muttley seems to enjoy marrow bones right out of the freezer. And just
searing the surface of steak will have no effect on bacteria or parasites
that might be deep in the meat. But it probably does no harm, and most of
the meat remains raw. I might be more concerned about a T-bone steak because
of the jagged shape of the bone, but much depends on how the dog eats her
food. If she is careful and takes time to chew it, there is no problem, but
a dog who tends to inhale food might ingest a piece large enough to cause a
blockage.

I give Muttley raw beef hearts, which are probably at least as healthy as
T-bone steak at a fraction of the cost. And sometimes I find other cuts of
meat that are marked down and I cook the best parts for myself while I give
him parts with gristle, fat, and bone that I won't eat. But not large chunks
of fat. Those get tossed.

Paul and Muttley
www.muttleydog.com

On 8/04/2010 2:56 AM, Char wrote:
On 4/7/2010 6:16 AM, Avid Fan wrote:
I bought her a couple of T bones - she has been good to me.

I think my dog must have been the runt of the litter - not that I care.

When ever I give her beef. I warm it it in the microwave on defrost
while I heat the fry pan at full heat.

I sear both sides for a couple of seconds.

Why? You are destroying the nutrients.

One of my majors is Microbiology. If you have seen the results of food
poisoning you might be extra cautious too.
Your views about the about dogs inability to get food poisoning is known
and is at odds with my views and those of my Vet. We have to agree to
disagree.

Your views are based on a belief that dogs stomach acid pH is lower than
human pH and somehow protect against bacterial infection- I can find no
evidence of this. People on proton pump Inhibitors Like Nexium, Zoton,
Losec have virtually no stomach acid and show no extra incidence of food
poisoning.

Searing meat for 2 seconds is not going damage the nutritional value of
the meat.



I put it on the plate with some dry food.

She comes to the plate, sniffs, takes the steak and runs to the backyard
to eat it, as if someone is going to take it off her.

She has done this since she was a puppy.


You see, even your dog knows what's good for her. Why not throw out the
dry food and go with more real meat?

My boy likes meat more than vegetables should I only feed him meat?

On 8/04/2010 3:08 AM, Paul E. Schoen wrote:

"Avid Fan" wrote in message
...
I bought her a couple of T bones - she has been good to me.

I think my dog must have been the runt of the litter - not that I care.

When ever I give her beef. I warm it it in the microwave on defrost
while I heat the fry pan at full heat.

I sear both sides for a couple of seconds.

I put it on the plate with some dry food.

She comes to the plate, sniffs, takes the steak and runs to the
backyard to eat it, as if someone is going to take it off her.

She has done this since she was a puppy.

This does not seem very unusual or funny. Muttley takes his raw marrow
bones, (and other high-value treats or food that takes more than one or
two chomps to eat), to his dog bed to chew.

My parents dogs always stayed at their bowls. Bones sure were taken way.

If he is outside, he will
take such items to the end of his tether. I don't think he would easily
give such items back to me, and I don't try, but I'm also quite sure
that he would not intentionally bite me if I took it away. He will bring
marrow bones to me on command, but usually the marrow is gone or too
deep in the bone for him to reach. And he knows that I will dig the
marrow loose and give it back to him.

There is probably no need to defrost the steak or to sear it in the fry
pan. Muttley seems to enjoy marrow bones right out of the freezer. And
just searing the surface of steak will have no effect on bacteria or
parasites that might be deep in the meat.

It is probably unnecessary but part of my training is in Microbiology.
A few photos of worst case scenarios puts you off.

Parasites yes (But very unlikely in meat for human consumption).
Bacteria No. When an animal is slaughtered bacteria from the
intestinal tract is sprayed all over the meat, that is why raw meat is
so dangerous. Your blood is sterile, if it was not you would be very
very sick.


But it probably does no harm,
and most of the meat remains raw. I might be more concerned about a
T-bone steak because of the jagged shape of the bone, but much depends
on how the dog eats her food. If she is careful and takes time to chew
it, there is no problem, but a dog who tends to inhale food might ingest
a piece large enough to cause a blockage.

I give Muttley raw beef hearts, which are probably at least as healthy
as T-bone steak at a fraction of the cost.

I give Chicken frames. I have never seen hearts for sale.

And sometimes I find other
cuts of meat that are marked down and I cook the best parts for myself
while I give him parts with gristle, fat, and bone that I won't eat. But
not large chunks of fat. Those get tossed.

Give Muttley a pat for me.

Paul and Muttley
www.muttleydog.com

"Avid Fan" wrote in message
...
On 8/04/2010 3:08 AM, Paul E. Schoen wrote:

This does not seem very unusual or funny. Muttley takes his raw marrow
bones, (and other high-value treats or food that takes more than one or
two chomps to eat), to his dog bed to chew.

My parents dogs always stayed at their bowls. Bones sure were taken way.

Probably any large piece would be taken away to a place where the dog can
comfortably hold it in his paws and rip pieces of it for consumption. At
least that's what Muttley seems to do. If it's small enough to eat as it is,
he'll stay at the bowl.


There is probably no need to defrost the steak or to sear it in the fry
pan. Muttley seems to enjoy marrow bones right out of the freezer. And
just searing the surface of steak will have no effect on bacteria or
parasites that might be deep in the meat.

It is probably unnecessary but part of my training is in Microbiology. A
few photos of worst case scenarios puts you off.

Maybe it would be a good idea if I washed the meat first?


Parasites yes (But very unlikely in meat for human consumption). Bacteria
No. When an animal is slaughtered bacteria from the intestinal tract is
sprayed all over the meat, that is why raw meat is so dangerous. Your
blood is sterile, if it was not you would be very very sick.

Why would intestinal bacteria be sprayed on the meat? I would think that all
internal organs (particularly the gut) would be removed before any cutting
of the muscle tissue for meat, especially when destined for human
consumption. The raw meat I have bought seems to be very clean, and it
usually keeps for several days to a week in the refrigerator and it just
seems to oxidize a bit and turn gray without any bad odor. And I'm sure the
meat from the store is much cleaner than some of the carrion that Muttley
has occasionally dug up and eaten, with no apparent ill effects.


But it probably does no harm,
and most of the meat remains raw. I might be more concerned about a
T-bone steak because of the jagged shape of the bone, but much depends
on how the dog eats her food. If she is careful and takes time to chew
it, there is no problem, but a dog who tends to inhale food might ingest
a piece large enough to cause a blockage.

I give Muttley raw beef hearts, which are probably at least as healthy
as T-bone steak at a fraction of the cost.

I give Chicken frames. I have never seen hearts for sale.

I get raw beef hearts packaged with a fair quantity of blood from Walmart,
under a brand name "Rumba". They also have cheek meat and tripe and other
"variety meats", but the hearts are the cheapest and just about all red meat
and very easily cut up. I pour some of the blood on his kibble which I mix
with the meat. He says Yumm! At the Food Lion the beef hearts are cut in
strips and there is little excess blood.


And sometimes I find other
cuts of meat that are marked down and I cook the best parts for myself
while I give him parts with gristle, fat, and bone that I won't eat. But
not large chunks of fat. Those get tossed.

Give Muttley a pat for me.

Done!

Paul and Muttley
www.muttleydog.com

On 4/7/2010 1:29 PM, Thomas.F.Malone wrote:
On 8/04/2010 2:56 AM, Char wrote:
On 4/7/2010 6:16 AM, Avid Fan wrote:
I bought her a couple of T bones - she has been good to me.

I think my dog must have been the runt of the litter - not that I care.

When ever I give her beef. I warm it it in the microwave on defrost
while I heat the fry pan at full heat.

I sear both sides for a couple of seconds.

Why? You are destroying the nutrients.

One of my majors is Microbiology. If you have seen the results of food
poisoning you might be extra cautious too.

I've *had* food poisoning.

Your views about the about dogs inability to get food poisoning is known
and is at odds with my views and those of my Vet. We have to agree to
disagree.

As if your vet would know.


Your views are based on a belief that dogs stomach acid pH is lower than
human pH and somehow protect against bacterial infection- I can find no
evidence of this.

http://rawfed.com/myths/bacteria.html
Commercial foods are hardly bacteria free.

And there is more to it than just the stomach acid. A dog's digestive
system is a lot shorter because it can push food through faster, before
it can get dangerous. The whole system is set up just to avoid bacteria
issues.

People on proton pump Inhibitors Like Nexium, Zoton,
Losec have virtually no stomach acid and show no extra incidence of food
poisoning.

Searing meat for 2 seconds is not going damage the nutritional value of
the meat.

I doubt he literally means 2 seconds. It's just overkill for no real reason.




I put it on the plate with some dry food.

She comes to the plate, sniffs, takes the steak and runs to the backyard
to eat it, as if someone is going to take it off her.

She has done this since she was a puppy.


You see, even your dog knows what's good for her. Why not throw out the
dry food and go with more real meat?

My boy likes meat more than vegetables should I only feed him meat?

Any dog would like meat more than vegetables. And I feed my dogs only
meat, bones and organ meats. The veggies can cause Candida problems
among other things.

On 8/04/2010 9:11 AM, Paul E. Schoen wrote:
"Avid Fan" wrote in message
...
On 8/04/2010 3:08 AM, Paul E. Schoen wrote:

This does not seem very unusual or funny. Muttley takes his raw marrow
bones, (and other high-value treats or food that takes more than one or
two chomps to eat), to his dog bed to chew.

My parents dogs always stayed at their bowls. Bones sure were taken way.

Probably any large piece would be taken away to a place where the dog
can comfortably hold it in his paws and rip pieces of it for
consumption. At least that's what Muttley seems to do. If it's small
enough to eat as it is, he'll stay at the bowl.

With my parents dogs it was two feet from the bowl.


There is probably no need to defrost the steak or to sear it in the fry
pan. Muttley seems to enjoy marrow bones right out of the freezer. And
just searing the surface of steak will have no effect on bacteria or
parasites that might be deep in the meat.

It is probably unnecessary but part of my training is in Microbiology.
A few photos of worst case scenarios puts you off.

Maybe it would be a good idea if I washed the meat first?

Like I said probably unnecessary, if you are going to do anything a
little bit of heat.

On chicken frames I pour a little boiling water from a kettle over them
or put them in a hot pan and stir them around. Salmonella is the main
bacteria in the intestines of chicken (or any bird), but it must be
alive to cause problems, anything hotter than a hot bath and they die.
You also need an infectious dose, you need enough bacteria to displace
the normal intestinal flora in the gut, one bacteria is not enough.

Just to complete the picture (just for your own knowledge, not relevant
to this discussion) toxins (proteins) excreted from certain bacteria are
the cause of food poisoning, the bacteria do not need to survive. The
most toxic Clostridium botulinum toxin a nerve poison (Botox) is so
toxic that an ounce could wipe out the population of America.
Fortunately for us it is very unstable. Oxygen kills the bacteria.
Light heat destroys the toxin. Staph Aureus (Golden Staph) is stable to
90C(194F). Stews left overnight and then put in the fridge an then not
quite reheated hot enough are a favourite for this one.



Parasites yes (But very unlikely in meat for human consumption).
Bacteria No. When an animal is slaughtered bacteria from the
intestinal tract is sprayed all over the meat, that is why raw meat is
so dangerous. Your blood is sterile, if it was not you would be very
very sick.

Why would intestinal bacteria be sprayed on the meat? I would think that
all internal organs (particularly the gut) would be removed before any
cutting of the muscle tissue for meat, especially when destined for
human consumption. The raw meat I have bought seems to be very clean,
and it usually keeps for several days to a week in the refrigerator and
it just seems to oxidize a bit and turn gray without any bad odor.

Ahh what you can't see CAN KILL YOU. The most rotten meat is safe if
you cook it. It just might taste bad. Food poisoning bacteria do not
change the taste too much, that is why they are dangerous.

And
I'm sure the meat from the store is much cleaner than some of the
carrion that Muttley has occasionally dug up and eaten, with no apparent
ill effects.


Look it is like closing your eyes and driving through a crossing on a
country road. 99% of the time you will get away with it. 1% of the time
you will end up a paraplegic or worse.

When they slaughter a cow. They cut off the head and use a saw to slice
the carcass up the middle. The saw slices through the guts spraying the
contents all over the meat. You cut the meat, but the meat is covered
with a layer of crap. When they cut meat they do not do it when the meat
is frozen. Meat is cut up - how long before they put it in the fridge?

The first thing they do in a microbiology class is get agar plates (Agar
is like gelatin) get you put your hands on one pate. Wash your hands
put your another. You put a number of things on the pates, the final
thing you put on is put steak on the agar plate. 24 hours later you see
the results - not good.

Using the same knife to cut meat then salad (Not good idea).

Putting raw meat on a plate putting the meat on a BBQ then putting the
meat back on the same plate (Not good idea).

You have to be careful with mince and cook it through. A person asking
for a very rare hamburger in a US fast food burger place lost both his
kidneys (I wonder how many thousands got away with it?).

If you like rare hamburger you have to get a good butcher or grind it
yourself.




Give Muttley a pat for me.

Done!

Good.

Paul and Muttley
www.muttleydog.com

"Avid Fan" wrote
Paul E. Schoen wrote:

This does not seem very unusual or funny. Muttley takes his raw marrow
bones, (and other high-value treats or food that takes more than one or
two chomps to eat), to his dog bed to chew.

Mine has a chair in the living room he stows them under. It's a rocking
chair and out of the way.
I do the big roasted ones from the pet store.

Didnt see the right stuff to quote but got it all. I was a microbiology
major for 3 years.

My ethic on pet feeding is if i didn't think the item as safe for ME to eat,
I won't feed it to my pet. I know they are a bit more tolerant of some
things, but that doesnt mean it actually is healthy for them. Lets add, I
have a medical needs pet so stressing that tolerance is not a good idea.

"cshenk" wrote in message
...
"Avid Fan" wrote
Paul E. Schoen wrote:

This does not seem very unusual or funny. Muttley takes his raw marrow
bones, (and other high-value treats or food that takes more than one
or
two chomps to eat), to his dog bed to chew.

Mine has a chair in the living room he stows them under. It's a rocking
chair and out of the way.
I do the big roasted ones from the pet store.

Didnt see the right stuff to quote but got it all. I was a microbiology
major for 3 years.

My ethic on pet feeding is if i didn't think the item as safe for ME to
eat, I won't feed it to my pet. I know they are a bit more tolerant of
some things, but that doesnt mean it actually is healthy for them. Lets
add, I have a medical needs pet so stressing that tolerance is not a good
idea.

I think the raw beef hearts and marrow bones should be safe for human
consumption, as they are sold in the meat department along with hamburger
and steaks. I prefer meat cooked fairly well-done but I have eaten and
enjoyed steak tartare (raw ground beef) with onions and horseradish on dark
rye bread. I no longer eat raw oysters because of concerns about bacteria.
Usually I marinate my food in alcohol while I am eating it, so perhaps that
helps. And I suppose it would be a good idea if I washed the raw meat I give
Muttley. Perhaps even using water treated with a small amount of bleach, and
then thoroughly rinsed.

I have bought the big roasted bones for Muttley, but he completely devours
them in an hour or so. He has very powerful jaws and big teeth so he just
chews them up, and I don't think it's too healthy for him to ingest so much
bone, especially when it has been cooked and basted in who-knows-what
additives and preservatives. They smell of chemicals, while heart meat
smells like any other fresh meat, and marrow bones have a distinctive smell
that I don't especially like, but Muttley sure does. They certainly don't
smell as bad as some of the deer bones he has dug out of the dirt. Yuck!

Paul and Muttley
www.muttleydog.com