I have a 9 year old German Shepherd with spinal arthritis.
She is on aspirin and Tramadol, for pain, and glucosamin, and fish oil.
Any sage advice?
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

"Billy" wrote

I have a 9 year old German Shepherd with spinal arthritis.
She is on aspirin and Tramadol, for pain, and glucosamin, and fish oil.
Any sage advice?

Got a younger one with it here. His is less severe I presume as he's not on
pain meds. Cash-pup didn't seem to be getting much benefit from the
powdered glucosamine/chondritin stuff from the Vet (I have absorbtion
problems too with it in pill/powder) so I took to adding to his diet the
foods that are naturally high in it and work for me.

What we did was add the natural sorces while still doing the powder and he
started improving. Later, after checking with Vet, he suggested we cease
the powder and watch carefully for changes. There weren't any so we are
guessing he may be like me? He was also havig some bone density issues
which seem to have cleared and is improving.

Additions to his diet:

Bone/Joint broth. I save chicken carcases until I have 4, break them up
(leaving the bits of meat or skin that may be on there), load them in my
large crockpot and cover with water plus 2 inches. Since he doesnt need
veggies and i know dogs aren't as salt tolerant as we are, nothing else is
added. It stays on low 24 hours then is strained and decanted to several
keepers. I defat the top most layer (it will lift off if you put it in the
fridge) then the 'consomme' below will gel. This is then put in 1/2 cup
amounts in plastic baggies in the freezer for use. He gets 1 a day minus
2-3 TB for the cat (warmed to slightly over room temp). We also use this in
our own cooking (adding salt and such as we want depending on the dish).

I do similar with beef or pork bones and fish parts though those don't
really 'gel' as much andaree more a matter of calcium addition.

Cash also likes shrimp heads and will eat shrimp shells (specially if you
leave the shrimp in it!)

Bones (large beef roasted and raw marrow frozen and cut) get given. Also,
Niboshi which is small guppy sized dried whole fish (I don't know an english
name for them, Niboshe is the Japanese name).

He also gets cooked fish heads (Cat gets first whack and he gets the rest),
whole small raw fingerling fish.

Other than the broth (which is sometimes Dashi, a japanese fish stock of no
particular nutrition for him but the cat loves it) which is daily, the
others are small suppliments seen in various rotation (depending on what I
am cooking) in place of the wet food we add to his dry at night.

They both also get a little added fat (duck, chicken, pork, olive oil) every
few days to keep their coats happy and glossy and for the cat this combats
furballs. In fact, Daisy-cat hasn't had a furball since the first week she
was here.

On 4/22/2010 12:38 PM, Billy wrote:
I have a 9 year old German Shepherd with spinal arthritis.
She is on aspirin and Tramadol, for pain, and glucosamin, and fish oil.
Any sage advice?

Chicken feet! (raw of course) That should help the joints. And for pain
try the homeopathic remedy arnica. Organic apple cider vinegar is good
for arthritis too. Put some in his water. It's supposed to be good for
fleas too.

Char

I have a 9 year old German Shepherd with spinal arthritis.
She is on aspirin and Tramadol, for pain, and glucosamin, and fish oil.
Any sage advice?

If your vet has progressed up to Tramadol then just the NSAIDs
(aspirin, deramaxx, rhymadol, etc.) aren't doing enough, which sounds
like the arthritis has progressed considerably. I've heard some
people say that metacam works well especially with spinal arthritis in
certain (anecdotal) cases, but it's also expensive. Talk it over with
your vet, but if the current medications are working, then he/she will
probably not change them. If you don't think they are, then you need
to explain that so they can consider your options for the next step,
be it upping a dosage of what you have or switching medications to
something new.

My suggestion is as much as possible just enjoy hanging out with your
old girl. If she wants to be active in ways that don't stress her
back/neck, like reasonably paced walks and such, that's good. If
she'd rather just lay down and hang out near you, that's good too.
Let her set the pace and decide, she's earned a life of liesure at
this point.

There isn't a lot you can do to reverse the arthritis, merely try to
slow it's progression (glucosamine, fish oil) and manage the pain
(tramadol, aspirin). I am sad to say, it will only continue to get
worse. What you can do is do your best to have that happen as slow as
you can, with the minimum amount of discomfort that you can, and enjoy
this time with your dog as long as you can.

And when it reaches a point where nothing seems to be working to keep
her comfortable, she's embarrased to be a dog, without that old dog
reserve and dignity, you have to think about what keeping her around
in pain and discomfort for a few more weeks or months would gain you
or her. A few more weeks with a dog who'd rather not be there is not
much of a gain. A few more weeks or months with a dog who's enjoying
every minute is everything, and no-one knows your dog like you.

Hope that helps,
--Glenn Lyford

Billy
Is your dog able to get up and to walk?

I finally found something natural to help. [Sadly, too late for most of
them....there were 10, now there are only 2 and they are turning 16 in a
few weeks.]

I tried that Glucosamine for myself and it did nothing, so didn't figure
it would help the dogs either.

What I would like - is to find a human-type of what I have found for the
dogs. Don't know why they don't make a human style ---have considered,
on bad days, taking one of the dogs pills. :::smile:::

If you'd like I'll get you the link to the company for the product.

On 4/24/2010 10:22 AM, Kterl email wrote:
Billy
Is your dog able to get up and to walk?

I finally found something natural to help. [Sadly, too late for most of
them....there were 10, now there are only 2 and they are turning 16 in a
few weeks.]

I tried that Glucosamine for myself and it did nothing, so didn't figure
it would help the dogs either.

What I would like - is to find a human-type of what I have found for the
dogs. Don't know why they don't make a human style ---have considered,
on bad days, taking one of the dogs pills. :::smile:::

If you'd like I'll get you the link to the company for the product.


Glucosamine chondroitin much helped my dog but did
not help me. Look at this:

J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2007 Feb 15;230(4):514-21.
Systematic review of clinical trials of treatments
for osteoarthritis in dogs.

Aragon CL, Hofmeister EH, Budsberg SC.

Department of Small Animal Medicine and Surgery,
College of Veterinary Medicine, University of
Georgia, Athens, GA 30602, USA.
Abstract

OBJECTIVE: To identify and critically evaluate the
quality of evidence of the most commonly used
pharmacologic, nutraceutical, and purported
slow-acting drugs of osteoarthritis for the
management of osteoarthritis in dogs by use of the
FDA's evidence-based medicine scoring system.
DESIGN: Systematic review. SAMPLE POPULATION: 16
clinical trials. PROCEDURES: A broad bibliographic
search was performed prior to May 2006. Inclusion
criteria focused on prospective trials evaluating
commonly used medical treatment interventions for
the management of osteoarthritis in dogs and
published in peer-reviewed journals. The analysis
consisted of the following: study design rating,
quality factor rating, quantity rating,
consistency rating, relevance to disease risk
reduction rating, and cumulative strength of
evidence ranking. RESULTS: 4 trials evaluating
meloxicam were rated as type I. Three trials
evaluating carprofen were rated as type I, and 2
trials were rated as type III. One trial
evaluating each of the following agents was rated
as type 1: etodolac; P54FP; polysulfated
glycosaminoglycan; and a combination of
chondroitin sulfate, glucosamine hydrochloride,
and manganese ascorbate. Two trials evaluating
pentosan polysulphate and 2 trails evaluating
green-lipped mussels were rated as type I. One
trial evaluating hyaluronan was rated as type III.
CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: A high level
of comfort exists for meloxicam that the claimed
relationship is scientifically valid and that its
use is clinically efficacious for the treatment of
osteoarthritis in dogs. A moderate level of
comfort exists for carprofen; etodolac; pentosan
polysulphate; green-lipped mussels; P54FP;
polysulfated glycosaminoglycans; and a combination
of chondroitin sulfate, glucosamine hydrochloride,
and manganese ascorbate. An extremely low level of
comfort exists for hyaluronan.

In fact doing a search he

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20020968

with terms like canine and arthritis.

--M

In article ,
M Dermer wrote:

On 4/24/2010 10:22 AM, Kterl email wrote:
Billy
Is your dog able to get up and to walk?

I finally found something natural to help. [Sadly, too late for most of
them....there were 10, now there are only 2 and they are turning 16 in a
few weeks.]

I tried that Glucosamine for myself and it did nothing, so didn't figure
it would help the dogs either.

What I would like - is to find a human-type of what I have found for the
dogs. Don't know why they don't make a human style ---have considered,
on bad days, taking one of the dogs pills. :::smile:::

If you'd like I'll get you the link to the company for the product.


Glucosamine chondroitin much helped my dog but did
not help me. Look at this:

J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2007 Feb 15;230(4):514-21.
Systematic review of clinical trials of treatments
for osteoarthritis in dogs.

Aragon CL, Hofmeister EH, Budsberg SC.

Department of Small Animal Medicine and Surgery,
College of Veterinary Medicine, University of
Georgia, Athens, GA 30602, USA.
Abstract

OBJECTIVE: To identify and critically evaluate the
quality of evidence of the most commonly used
pharmacologic, nutraceutical, and purported
slow-acting drugs of osteoarthritis for the
management of osteoarthritis in dogs by use of the
FDA's evidence-based medicine scoring system.
DESIGN: Systematic review. SAMPLE POPULATION: 16
clinical trials. PROCEDURES: A broad bibliographic
search was performed prior to May 2006. Inclusion
criteria focused on prospective trials evaluating
commonly used medical treatment interventions for
the management of osteoarthritis in dogs and
published in peer-reviewed journals. The analysis
consisted of the following: study design rating,
quality factor rating, quantity rating,
consistency rating, relevance to disease risk
reduction rating, and cumulative strength of
evidence ranking. RESULTS: 4 trials evaluating
meloxicam were rated as type I. Three trials
evaluating carprofen were rated as type I, and 2
trials were rated as type III. One trial
evaluating each of the following agents was rated
as type 1: etodolac; P54FP; polysulfated
glycosaminoglycan; and a combination of
chondroitin sulfate, glucosamine hydrochloride,
and manganese ascorbate. Two trials evaluating
pentosan polysulphate and 2 trails evaluating
green-lipped mussels were rated as type I. One
trial evaluating hyaluronan was rated as type III.
CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: A high level
of comfort exists for meloxicam that the claimed
relationship is scientifically valid and that its
use is clinically efficacious for the treatment of
osteoarthritis in dogs. A moderate level of
comfort exists for carprofen; etodolac; pentosan
polysulphate; green-lipped mussels; P54FP;
polysulfated glycosaminoglycans; and a combination
of chondroitin sulfate, glucosamine hydrochloride,
and manganese ascorbate. An extremely low level of
comfort exists for hyaluronan.

In fact doing a search he

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20020968

with terms like canine and arthritis.

--M

Thanks, I'll ask our vet about it. Wikipedia has a nice overview on
Meloxicam.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

In article
,
Glenn Lyford wrote:

I have a 9 year old German Shepherd with spinal arthritis.
She is on aspirin and Tramadol, for pain, and glucosamin, and fish oil.
Any sage advice?

If your vet has progressed up to Tramadol then just the NSAIDs
(aspirin, deramaxx, rhymadol, etc.) aren't doing enough, which sounds
like the arthritis has progressed considerably. I've heard some
people say that metacam works well especially with spinal arthritis in
certain (anecdotal) cases, but it's also expensive. Talk it over with
your vet, but if the current medications are working, then he/she will
probably not change them. If you don't think they are, then you need
to explain that so they can consider your options for the next step,
be it upping a dosage of what you have or switching medications to
something new.

My suggestion is as much as possible just enjoy hanging out with your
old girl. If she wants to be active in ways that don't stress her
back/neck, like reasonably paced walks and such, that's good. If
she'd rather just lay down and hang out near you, that's good too.
Let her set the pace and decide, she's earned a life of liesure at
this point.

There isn't a lot you can do to reverse the arthritis, merely try to
slow it's progression (glucosamine, fish oil) and manage the pain
(tramadol, aspirin). I am sad to say, it will only continue to get
worse. What you can do is do your best to have that happen as slow as
you can, with the minimum amount of discomfort that you can, and enjoy
this time with your dog as long as you can.

And when it reaches a point where nothing seems to be working to keep
her comfortable, she's embarrased to be a dog, without that old dog
reserve and dignity, you have to think about what keeping her around
in pain and discomfort for a few more weeks or months would gain you
or her. A few more weeks with a dog who'd rather not be there is not
much of a gain. A few more weeks or months with a dog who's enjoying
every minute is everything, and no-one knows your dog like you.

Hope that helps,
--Glenn Lyford

The scary part was how fast it came on. A month ago she took off to have
a romp in the woods, and then 2 weeks ago, bang, it was like she slammed
into a wall, and has been gimping around like an old lady ever since. It
has only been 6 days since she got on medication. I'm hoping that what
trauma she had will subside, and give her another year or two. All we
can do is watch and wait.

Thanks for the thoughts.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

In article ,
Char wrote:

On 4/22/2010 12:38 PM, Billy wrote:
I have a 9 year old German Shepherd with spinal arthritis.
She is on aspirin and Tramadol, for pain, and glucosamin, and fish oil.
Any sage advice?

Chicken feet! (raw of course) That should help the joints. And for pain
try the homeopathic remedy arnica. Organic apple cider vinegar is good
for arthritis too. Put some in his water. It's supposed to be good for
fleas too.

Char

Why raw? I'd think boiling it would make the amino acids more
accessible. Arnica calls for medical supervision. How much to use. As an
infusion or a tincture? I'll look into the apple vinager.
Thanks for your concern.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

In article ,
"cshenk" wrote:

"Billy" wrote

I have a 9 year old German Shepherd with spinal arthritis.
She is on aspirin and Tramadol, for pain, and glucosamin, and fish oil.
Any sage advice?

Got a younger one with it here. His is less severe I presume as he's not on
pain meds. Cash-pup didn't seem to be getting much benefit from the
powdered glucosamine/chondritin stuff from the Vet (I have absorbtion
problems too with it in pill/powder) so I took to adding to his diet the
foods that are naturally high in it and work for me.

What we did was add the natural sorces while still doing the powder and he
started improving. Later, after checking with Vet, he suggested we cease
the powder and watch carefully for changes. There weren't any so we are
guessing he may be like me? He was also havig some bone density issues
which seem to have cleared and is improving.

Additions to his diet:

Bone/Joint broth. I save chicken carcases until I have 4, break them up
(leaving the bits of meat or skin that may be on there), load them in my
large crockpot and cover with water plus 2 inches. Since he doesnt need
veggies and i know dogs aren't as salt tolerant as we are, nothing else is
added. It stays on low 24 hours then is strained and decanted to several
keepers. I defat the top most layer (it will lift off if you put it in the
fridge) then the 'consomme' below will gel. This is then put in 1/2 cup
amounts in plastic baggies in the freezer for use. He gets 1 a day minus
2-3 TB for the cat (warmed to slightly over room temp). We also use this in
our own cooking (adding salt and such as we want depending on the dish).

I do similar with beef or pork bones and fish parts though those don't
really 'gel' as much andaree more a matter of calcium addition.

Cash also likes shrimp heads and will eat shrimp shells (specially if you
leave the shrimp in it!)

Bones (large beef roasted and raw marrow frozen and cut) get given. Also,
Niboshi which is small guppy sized dried whole fish (I don't know an english
name for them, Niboshe is the Japanese name).

He also gets cooked fish heads (Cat gets first whack and he gets the rest),
whole small raw fingerling fish.

Other than the broth (which is sometimes Dashi, a japanese fish stock of no
particular nutrition for him but the cat loves it) which is daily, the
others are small suppliments seen in various rotation (depending on what I
am cooking) in place of the wet food we add to his dry at night.

They both also get a little added fat (duck, chicken, pork, olive oil) every
few days to keep their coats happy and glossy and for the cat this combats
furballs. In fact, Daisy-cat hasn't had a furball since the first week she
was here.

We already make a stew to compliment their dog food, but I think I'll
try the chickens feet, because they are supposed to be lousy with
collagen.

Thanks for the suggestion.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html