"Char" wrote
cshenk wrote:

There is a Yahoo group just for locating raw sellers in your area. In many
places there are co-ops where everyone orders together to get a break on
the price as well as on shipping. Can't remember the name of it though.
Lemme think on that one.

Found the group and they sent a file with it. Hunting through there I was
able to find a lead to a possible at our local animaljungle store. Can't
recall the name of the product just now but looked at their web page
yesterday and has nothing but meat, organs, and bones in it and small
additives at the bottom of the list. Apparently has a frozen version as
well (do not know if local store has that or not). It's a shipped in chain
product. Sold in 2 or 5lb chubs.

The only 'local distributor' I can find where the recipe matches up, is a 90
mile round trip from me. Too far to make it work.

I'll let you know what I find but it will be a little bit. I have a big
picnic (Starts Thursday, lasts through Monday, folks flying or driving in
from all over) this weekend. Once I verify what I can get, would you be
willing to look over the info on it and let me know for sure if it's a
decent one?

Next up is there is some confusing and conflicting information on the diet
shift to raw and how it impacts the dog. Some say to ease into it as the
dog may be resistant to eating this new to them food. IE: been used to and
want the crunch of kibble. To me, this is a learned behavior that 'kibble
is good' and 'crunch is good'. This from experience BTW is exactly the
issues with swapping a kibble fed cat to wet food. Doesn't matter to the
cat that wet is better for them, they just equate 'crunchy is good' so it
takes time to wean them over to wet. Oh, that's not an 'absolute' there on
cats, but it's fairly common. Daisy-chan was like that. I'm sure there are
many who've not made that mental connection and swap at the drop of a hat to
wet.

I suspect Cash will happily eat the raw diet but look around for his
'crunchies' and be sad at not getting them, as if I were punishing him by
withholding that part. I can't tell for sure until I start. (Don't worry,
I know dogs pickup on the 2foots feelings so I won't have anything negative
in mind when we try it). If that does happen though, got any suggestions
other than easing him over to the new diet? I don't want him looking into
the bowl and going 'oh, that stuff. It's good but means no crunchies
again'.

Note I added both groups at top. Half the question is diet (health echo)
and the other half is behavior. Wasn't sure where to put it but if you
select one and remove the other, I'll follow along.

On 5/24/2010 5:32 PM, cshenk wrote:
"Char" wrote
cshenk wrote:

There is a Yahoo group just for locating raw sellers in your area. In
many places there are co-ops where everyone orders together to get a
break on the price as well as on shipping. Can't remember the name of
it though. Lemme think on that one.

Found the group and they sent a file with it. Hunting through there I
was able to find a lead to a possible at our local animaljungle store.
Can't recall the name of the product just now but looked at their web
page yesterday and has nothing but meat, organs, and bones in it and
small additives at the bottom of the list. Apparently has a frozen
version as well (do not know if local store has that or not). It's a
shipped in chain product. Sold in 2 or 5lb chubs.

Which means it's ground up. It's better to feed meat and bones that
aren't ground up. It takes longer to eat so the dog feels full faster,
the bones help clean the teeth.


The only 'local distributor' I can find where the recipe matches up, is
a 90 mile round trip from me. Too far to make it work.

I'll let you know what I find but it will be a little bit. I have a big
picnic (Starts Thursday, lasts through Monday, folks flying or driving
in from all over) this weekend. Once I verify what I can get, would you
be willing to look over the info on it and let me know for sure if it's
a decent one?

Next up is there is some confusing and conflicting information on the
diet shift to raw and how it impacts the dog. Some say to ease into it
as the dog may be resistant to eating this new to them food. IE: been
used to and want the crunch of kibble. To me, this is a learned behavior
that 'kibble is good' and 'crunch is good'. This from experience BTW is
exactly the issues with swapping a kibble fed cat to wet food. Doesn't
matter to the cat that wet is better for them, they just equate 'crunchy
is good' so it takes time to wean them over to wet. Oh, that's not an
'absolute' there on cats, but it's fairly common. Daisy-chan was like
that. I'm sure there are many who've not made that mental connection and
swap at the drop of a hat to wet.

I suspect Cash will happily eat the raw diet but look around for his
'crunchies' and be sad at not getting them, as if I were punishing him
by withholding that part.

It doesn't happen. The food you are switching to tastes so much better
they might start gulping the food down, which is another good reason not
to feed ground food. They can't gulp half a chicken unless it's a huge
dog. I don't believe dogs like the crunch of kibble. Bones crunch much
better and taste better too.

I can't tell for sure until I start. (Don't
worry, I know dogs pickup on the 2foots feelings so I won't have
anything negative in mind when we try it). If that does happen though,
got any suggestions other than easing him over to the new diet? I don't
want him looking into the bowl and going 'oh, that stuff. It's good but
means no crunchies again'.

I don't believe in slowly switching. Just do it. Most people start with
chicken because it's a mild source of protein. Feed just chicken for a
week or so then add a second protein, then a third and so on. Sometimes
the switch can cause loose stools so be ready for that and feed a higher
ratio of bone to meat.

Char


Note I added both groups at top. Half the question is diet (health echo)
and the other half is behavior. Wasn't sure where to put it but if you
select one and remove the other, I'll follow along.

"Char" wrote
cshenk wrote:

many places there are co-ops where everyone orders together to get a
break on the price as well as on shipping. Can't remember the name of

Unfortunately, I seem to be in a deadzone for that within a reasonable
drive. Best I can *tell so far* anyways.

Can't recall the name of the product just now but looked at their web
page yesterday and has nothing but meat, organs, and bones in it and
small additives at the bottom of the list. Apparently has a frozen
version as well (do not know if local store has that or not). It's a
shipped in chain product. Sold in 2 or 5lb chubs.

Which means it's ground up. It's better to feed meat and bones that aren't
ground up. It takes longer to eat so the dog feels full faster, the bones
help clean the teeth.

Yes, but with no sourcing I can find for anything else yet here, seems it
may be better than kibble and canned eh? I can always throw some whole
chicken necks at the bowl too.

Oh, he gets plenty of raw bones now. I'd possibly have to step that back if
I started feeding this way.

exactly the issues with swapping a kibble fed cat to wet food. Doesn't
matter to the cat that wet is better for them, they just equate 'crunchy
is good' so it takes time to wean them over to wet. Oh, that's not an
'absolute' there on cats, but it's fairly common. Daisy-chan was like
that. I'm sure there are many who've not made that mental connection and
swap at the drop of a hat to wet.

I suspect Cash will happily eat the raw diet but look around for his
'crunchies' and be sad at not getting them, as if I were punishing him
by withholding that part.

It doesn't happen. The food you are switching to tastes so much better
they might start gulping the food down, which is another good reason not
to feed ground food. They can't gulp half a chicken unless it's a huge
dog. I don't believe dogs like the crunch of kibble. Bones crunch much
better and taste better too.

Ok, we'll see. Cash gulps food no matter what. It's just how 'beagle mixes'
usually are. I'm sure there are others like it. My bits of fun hunts on
google say it's fairly common for 'scent hounds' though by no means
universal. I narrowed in then on beagles (long ago hunt) so not sure of
other specifics other than 'real common for beagles'. Cash is a mixed breed
but it's easiest to refer to beagles with him as he closely acts like what
the breed specs say they generally are like.

I can't tell for sure until I start. (Don't
worry, I know dogs pickup on the 2foots feelings so I won't have
anything negative in mind when we try it). If that does happen though,
got any suggestions other than easing him over to the new diet? I don't
want him looking into the bowl and going 'oh, that stuff. It's good but
means no crunchies again'.

I don't believe in slowly switching. Just do it. Most people start with
chicken because it's a mild source of protein. Feed just chicken for a
week or so then add a second protein, then a third and so on. Sometimes
the switch can cause loose stools so be ready for that and feed a higher
ratio of bone to meat.

Ok. Next investigation we will have is some 'treat' stuff suitable. He's
been getting mostly home made 'biscuits' which granted have wheat in them
but are a mix of wheat, dried crushed whole small fish, bone meal, beef or
pork bone broth, rendered meat fat, eggs. (Better than I have seen in the
store by a long shot). Suitable swaps may be: small strip of deydrated
tripe? small bit of dehydrated fish, part of a raw chicken liver or heart,
maybe dehydrated beef or pork heart. OH! Hey run this one by, some of my
dinugong (sp? word?) fixings. 'Jellied/coagulated pork blood'. Don't laugh
too hard. We lived in Asia for quite a while and learned cuisines there
with no relation to what Americans are generally used to.

I *know* he and Daisy go ape over that one. I may have the wrong name for
the dish but we make it from time to time and in english it's a 'pork blood
stew'. Many ways to make it, we do it simple. Pork (usually loin cut thick
then cubed then cooked to red center and brown outside in pork fat) added to
blood in small deep pan and warmed. Served with carmelized garlic and onion
and rice. Leave out the garlic and onion and rice for the pets (grin).
Yeah, it *is* cooked so not your 'raw diet' but I assure you, worlds above
kibble. Cat and dog definately happy to go 'vampire feeding' with this one.