There may be some tips and methods to teach a dog to "heel" in the other
thread but it has gone so far off-topic and has so many exchanges of
unpleasantries that I think a new topic is appropriate. I posted some links
to videos there and I'll repeat them he

Videos from "Amazing Dog Training Man" that shows a way to teach "heel":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zX1npWbnbk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvaNwntgO4E&NR=1

Here is a movie about walking a dog. But it uses treats, and does not use
the "heel" command. I'll bet I could do at least as well if I dangled a
treat at Muttley's nose!
http://www.loveyourdog.com/heelmovie.html

This is better.
http://www.5min.com/Video/How-to-Tea...Heel-149479862
http://www.5min.com/Video/How-to-Tea...eash-149480059

This is not so good:
http://www.ehow.com/video_2200195_train-dog-heel.html

Here this guy says he is using positive reinforcement while he administers
collar pops:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Oy5AANTpw

Here is a video of a Cesar Millan interview which explains some of his
principles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBRV2cXC5GA

This three part series shows several examples of dogs at heel during the
walk, which CM stresses as very important:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNA8J...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqHjq...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNudx...eature=related

Now, as promised, I present a video showing my initial attempt to teach
Muttley to heel by using some treats. It's not too successful but it's at
least a start.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MM3hArki70

This shorter clip, shot almost in the dark, shows Muttley heeling for a
short while at least, from the point of view of the camera mounted on the
brim of a hard-hat. There is still work to be done, but it's early in the
game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKRBjVVJqr8

I welcome constructive criticism and suggestions related to dog training.
Perhaps those who have mastered the heel with their own dogs may post their
own videos to demonstrate their expertise, and those who have more training
to do might also post their works in progress.

Paul and Muttley

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in message
news

Here is a movie about walking a dog. But it uses treats, and does not use
the "heel" command. I'll bet I could do at least as well if I dangled a
treat at Muttley's nose!
http://www.loveyourdog.com/heelmovie.html

Then why don't you do that and stick to one way? What's wrong with using
treats? She is showing the dog what she wants him to do and he is doing it
and he gets the reward. Dogs (and beíngs) tend to repeat what is rewarding
to them.
The word Hmean nothing to the dog. You get the dog to do what you want
e.g walk by your side calmly and when he is doing that consistantly, you
add the word (in this case Heel ) and you say it *while he is at your
side.* That is how dog traíning works but people tend to think you have to
say the command , get the dog to do it and then give the treat. You don't.
Many dog owners let their dog get ahead, say the word heel and then drag
them back which is confusing for the dog.
I know you are very interested in dog training and like to look at
different trainers and methods , it's a fascinating subject ! but you
really need to understand the principles of dog training and how they learn
and be consistant when training your dog.
I'm not a trainer myself and I am still learning about training. I found
the book How Dogs Learn by Birch and Bailey very useful and I re- read it
now and then to remind myself. I'm sure you said you have read this book so
you might want to read it again.
Al

"Alison" wrote in message
...

The word Hmean nothing to the dog.

That should be " The word "Heel" means nothing to the dog.

"Poopy Puppy Boy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 10:46:51 +0100, "Alison"
wrote:

I know you are very interested in dog training

No way, Al.

He's interested in *appearing* like he's interested in dog training.

But he has zero interest in training dogs.

It's true that I don't have *much* interest in training. I am happy enough
to have a dog I can trust and who can accompany me on trips as is the case
this weekend. But no matter how much interest and enthusiasm I may have in
teaching Muttley a solid "heel" or "recall" or whatever, I had hoped this
thread would be a civil discussion of dog training among mature adults.

But, I figured "Dogman" would act childishly. How old are you, Puppy Boy? It
seems like you would have matured in all those years, but even cheese and
wine eventually go bad. And something's sure rotten here!

Paul and Muttley
www.muttleydog.com

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in message
news
Now, as promised, I present a video showing my initial attempt to teach
Muttley to heel by using some treats. It's not too successful but it's at
least a start.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MM3hArki70


Paul, Í'm sorry but to be honest you cannot blame Muttley. I can't
understand all that you are saying in the video but from watching your
actions alone, I'm as confused as Muttley as what you want him to do. I
noticed he was scratching which can be a stress signal. He is very eager
to work for those treats and you can do a lot with a dog like that.
I know you have been to training classes but having a one to one with a
good positive trainer who will show you what you are doing wrong would be a
great help and less confusing for Muttley.
Al

"Alison" wrote in message
...


"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in message
news
Now, as promised, I present a video showing my initial attempt to teach
Muttley to heel by using some treats. It's not too successful but it's at
least a start.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MM3hArki70


Paul, Í'm sorry but to be honest you cannot blame Muttley. I can't
understand all that you are saying in the video but from watching your
actions alone, I'm as confused as Muttley as what you want him to do. I
noticed he was scratching which can be a stress signal. He is very eager
to work for those treats and you can do a lot with a dog like that.
I know you have been to training classes but having a one to one with a
good positive trainer who will show you what you are doing wrong would be
a great help and less confusing for Muttley.

I've already tried dog trainers, and they have caused more harm than good.
And now Dogman is making this thread more about himself than the original
topic. It's probably not very useful for me to hang around here but I'll do
it just to irritate the Puppy Boy.

It is helpful to have a video to see what I am doing wrong. I wish I had one
from the obedience class where I was dragging Muttley all around with a
choker chain and prong collar in the midst of a dozen other dogs and
handlers doing U-turns and other maneuvers. Mostly I need Muttley to pay
attention. In the video he was paying attention to the treat more than me,
and I hurried things along just to get a starting point for comments and
suggestions.

I know you are trying to be helpful, but as long as Dogman keeps lifting his
leg and peeing all over this thread I don't think it is going to be very
useful. But thanks anyway.

Paul and Muttley

On Sat, 05 Jun 2010 22:25:02 -0400, Paul E. Schoen wrote:

Now, as promised, I present a video showing my initial attempt to
teach
Muttley to heel by using some treats. It's not too successful but it's
at least a start.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MM3hArki70



Paul and Muttley

Paul, I have missed this video but now I see you have done a really good
job. Best thing I like about it is that Muttley is very animated and happy
to work hard for those treats. Now you have to work on yourself, this is
what I mean: you need to be consistent at what position you give a treat
to Muttley (lets say "classic heel position') and give him treat
exclusively at this position(and do it all the time on the move, you add
stops later) otherwise you teaching him to many thing at once.
(as video shows: sit and down and both in different positioning,)

While you walk and Muttley is in a heel position use treats frequently
for as long until you get the desired position of Muttley, then you will
be able to extend interval of rewards, then make intervals variable and
in final wean it out of it. To get to a final it takes a lot of time, do
not rush things.

Take care
--
thedalpal

"sonofdog" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 05 Jun 2010 22:25:02 -0400, Paul E. Schoen wrote:

Now, as promised, I present a video showing my initial attempt to
teach
Muttley to heel by using some treats. It's not too successful but it's
at least a start.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MM3hArki70



Paul and Muttley

Paul, I have missed this video but now I see you have done a really good
job. Best thing I like about it is that Muttley is very animated and happy
to work hard for those treats. Now you have to work on yourself, this is
what I mean: you need to be consistent at what position you give a treat
to Muttley (lets say "classic heel position') and give him treat
exclusively at this position(and do it all the time on the move, you add
stops later) otherwise you teaching him to many thing at once.
(as video shows: sit and down and both in different positioning,)

Sometimes he goes right from "sit" to "down" and I wanted the action to fit
the command, so I rewarded the "down", rather than trying to fix the "sit".
And he did turn first before the down position, which was not as intended.
But I was a bit rushed for the video. I'll need to take more time and get it
right.

While you walk and Muttley is in a heel position use treats frequently
for as long until you get the desired position of Muttley, then you will
be able to extend interval of rewards, then make intervals variable and
in final wean it out of it. To get to a final it takes a lot of time, do
not rush things.

Thanks for the encouragement and advice. I know I was rushing things when I
made this video, but it helps to have something on which to build. I know it
is important to be able to have Muttley walk on a loose leash, even if not
at perfect heel position, so I can take him places and not have to struggle
with him pulling everywhere. I have not really used treats very much before
I made this video, and it does seem like he is very motivated by them, so
they should be useful. I think I first need to establish his attention on me
in various situations, and then progress to heeling.

One question I would like answered is what is the best position for walking
on narrow trails? To me it seems natural for Muttley to go ahead, and that's
OK as long as he does not pull very much. Having him at my side is
impossible, and having him behind me seems awkward. And if "heel" is not
appropriate, what command should I use to get him to go forward on a loose
leash? I've been using "easy" and "no pull" and "wait" and "slow", with
equal non-success. He will sit and wait reasonably well, but as soon as he
gets up he forges ahead.

Paul and Muttley

On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 01:08:08 -0400, Paul E. Schoen wrote:


One question I would like answered is what is the best position for
walking on narrow trails? To me it seems natural for Muttley to go
ahead, and that's OK as long as he does not pull very much.

Paul, we will have to consider the circumstances such as:
is Muttley prone to distractions ?(squirels in the area)
You do not want to be pulled into a trouble.
what are physical conditions of the trail? (muddy, rocky, slippery) and
what visibilty ? IMO this are most important.
From videos and our conversations I suggest to have Muttley behind you,it
will be safer for both of you.

Having him
at my side is impossible, and having him behind me seems awkward.

Yes, it is awkward, yet it is easy to achieve, move you arms behind you
and have some treats in one hand, Muttley will gladly follow behind.

And if
"heel" is not appropriate, what command should I use to get him to go
forward on a loose leash?

at the moment Muttley's heeling is not perfect yet so you need no
command, just let him forge forward, and when you need/want him beside
just use "heel" command to bring him back to desired position.

Later on you may teach him BODY command "Go".

Have Muttley ready in seat position beside you, give command HEEL(!) and
as you start walking with your left foot forward slightly lean forward
and SWING your left arm forward (this will be your "Body" command "GO"),
after a while from the same starting position you will only SWING your
arm and Muttley will go forward as he were given "Go" command.
That will be the time when you will add a verbal "Go"

I've been using "easy" and "no pull" and
"wait" and "slow", with equal non-success. He will sit and wait
reasonably well, but as soon as he gets up he forges ahead.


Paul, Have Muttley ready in seat position beside you at your left.
Your wright arm close to your body and bent(~90*) at elbow with hand
pointing to left (with a treat in hand) about 4" in front of your left
hip. Basically you do bait Muttley into a proper position and give a
treat when position is achieved. Avoid fast moves of your arm so you do
not make Muttley jump all around you.

Paul, very important thing for all of Us is self discipline,
this means: keep trying to be very consistent, even sometimes practicing
our commands and moves without the dog, first we teach ourselves then a
dog.

Take care
--
thedalpal

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in message
...

" I know you are trying to be helpful, but as long as Dogman keeps
lifting his leg and peeing all over this thread I don't think it is going
to be very useful. But thanks anyway.

Paul and Muttley


Hi Paul, I meant to add a more constructive post but left it as I thought
you were away for the weekend. I've been using a camera to film bits of
dibby heeling with a treat but it's difficult holdong camera etc .
Good advice from sonofdog.
Dogman is really annoying and enjoys taking a pop at you but sometimes he
writes things that are worth reading.
There is a post where he comments on a link you gave. This one os worth
reading.

Here this guy says he is using positive reinforcement while he administers
collar pops:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Oy5AANTpw



*1. The handler in the video didn't use one collar pop. Not one! I saw
one jerk, and some tugs or pulls, but no collar "pops." Yes, there's
a reason they're called collar "pops" and not collar jerks, pulls,
tugs, etc.

A correct "collar pop" can, and should be, "motivational." And it can
only be done with a *loose* leash, and that's why no *force* is even
possible. Try attaching a rope to a wagon. Now, KEEPING THE ROPE
LOOSE, try to move the wagon. Let us know how that works out for you.

And once the "pop" gets the desired result, e.g., when the dog returns
his attention to you, it should be quickly followed up with R+
(praise, treat, etc.), and a return to the drill session.

Think of it as a buzzer that goes off, signaling to the dog, "BZZZZ!
Look at me. Wrong answer. Want to try again?" And which is pretty
much what some forms of e-collar training are all about too.

2. The R+ was in the form of multiple uses of verbal ("Good boy!") and
physical (pats on the head) praise, when the dog did the right thing.*