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  #1  
Old June 15th 10, 05:10 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
cshenk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,078
Default PING Char

Hi Char,

Having a really hard time locating the organ meat part of BARF locally. It
seems 'all chicken' isn't a good idea. Can you give me a list of what you
normally use by animal for organ meats? I got it on the bone meats locally
but am having problems with variety in organ meats other than chicken.
Also, Cash doesnt *like* liver very much and will turn up his nose at
chicken liver unless it's hidden well among other chicken hearts and
gizzards.

Is squid bad as far as you know? Body core, cleaned then we slice it. He
loves it. I wrapped a chicken liver in a bit of that and he almost ate my
fingers (grin). 'Dog sashimi' we call it. I don't plan to do it too often
as squid are a bit high on the mercury scale but just checking if you know
anything even if 'heard tell about it, not sure but here's what I was told'.

One of the things we can add is coagulated pig blood. It's used in some
asian cookery and we have a supply. I can also get pork chiterlin's
(intestines, cleaned).

  #2  
Old June 16th 10, 11:57 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Char
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 771
Default PING Char

On 6/15/2010 12:10 PM, cshenk wrote:
Hi Char,

Having a really hard time locating the organ meat part of BARF locally.
It seems 'all chicken' isn't a good idea.


Correct. It lacks the right amount of zinc and iron that red meats have.
Red meats include pork which isn't so expensive.

Can you give me a list of what
you normally use by animal for organ meats?


The best one of all is raw green tripe which can't be bought in stores
that sell human food. Finding a local source is best but you can buy it
online too.
http://greentripe.com/
http://www.hare-today.com/

Grass fed tripe is best but grain fed will do.

I got it on the bone meats
locally but am having problems with variety in organ meats other than
chicken. Also, Cash doesnt *like* liver very much and will turn up his
nose at chicken liver unless it's hidden well among other chicken hearts
and gizzards.


Two of my dogs don't like it either. What I do sometimes is sear it in a
pan so the outside is cooked but it's raw inside. Sprinkling it with
some garlic powder helps too.

My dogs do like beef kidneys though, and beef heart too. They are cheap
and the heart is good for any dog with heart problems. Heart is
considered a muscle meat though, not organ meat. They didn't like pork
heart much but your dog might,

If you can find an ethnic market (Hispanic, Asian) you will find all
those organ meats.


Is squid bad as far as you know?


No, it's fine.

Body core, cleaned then we slice it. He
loves it. I wrapped a chicken liver in a bit of that and he almost ate
my fingers (grin). 'Dog sashimi' we call it. I don't plan to do it too
often as squid are a bit high on the mercury scale but just checking if
you know anything even if 'heard tell about it, not sure but here's what
I was told'.


The only seafood I can think of to stay away from is raw salmon. Can't
remember what it was in there that could be bad at the moment but I'm
sure you can Google it.


One of the things we can add is coagulated pig blood. It's used in some
asian cookery and we have a supply. I can also get pork chiterlin's
(intestines, cleaned).


Green tripe would be better because of all the enzymes in it but pork
intestines and blood are fine too.

It's good to feed as many different kinds of meats as possible so
include goat, lamb, venison, rabbit, whatever you can find now and then.
Also, nutritional values will vary from one part of an animal to another
so don't always feed the same parts.

Add new protein sources one at a time just in case he happens to have a
reaction to any of them. Unlike commercial dog food you are adding just
one ingredient at a time so it makes things a lot easier to figure out
should there be an allergy.

Char

  #3  
Old June 16th 10, 09:41 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Paul E. Schoen[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 308
Default PING Char


"Char" wrote in message
m...

My dogs do like beef kidneys though, and beef heart too. They are cheap
and the heart is good for any dog with heart problems. Heart is considered
a muscle meat though, not organ meat. They didn't like pork heart much but
your dog might,


I was going to get some beef hearts for Muttley last night, but they were
not available at the Food Lion. I did get some beef marrow bones that were
cut into 1" lengths, for $0.99/lb, and I froze them so I can give him one or
two a day.

I saw some beef kidneys for only about $0.79/lb, so I bought a one pound
piece and cut it into smaller chunks for him. He seemed to like it, but he
would take the chunks to his "place" and chew on them there, while the beef
hearts he just eats at the bowl.

Any caveats about raw kidneys? And what about raw liver? I enjoy cooked
liver; it is available at a good price, and I usually share some with
Muttley. But is it better to feed it to him raw?

The only seafood I can think of to stay away from is raw salmon. Can't
remember what it was in there that could be bad at the moment but I'm sure
you can Google it.


I had some shrimp last night and I gave the shells (which still contain some
meat) to him, and he seemed to enjoy it. I found a 3/4 lb package on sale
about half-price at about $3/lb, so I ate most of it but treated him with
the leftovers. Seems like a good thing.

I still feed him about half and half raw meats and kibble, and he seems to
be doing well with that combination. It seems like a lot to be careful about
to feed 100% raw, and it's probably more expensive and more difficult to
keep on hand. So I think a compromise is OK.

Paul and Muttley

  #4  
Old June 16th 10, 10:46 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Char
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 771
Default PING Char

On 6/16/2010 4:41 PM, Paul E. Schoen wrote:

"Char" wrote in message
m...

My dogs do like beef kidneys though, and beef heart too. They are
cheap and the heart is good for any dog with heart problems. Heart is
considered a muscle meat though, not organ meat. They didn't like pork
heart much but your dog might,


I was going to get some beef hearts for Muttley last night, but they
were not available at the Food Lion. I did get some beef marrow bones
that were cut into 1" lengths, for $0.99/lb, and I froze them so I can
give him one or two a day.

I saw some beef kidneys for only about $0.79/lb, so I bought a one pound
piece and cut it into smaller chunks for him. He seemed to like it, but
he would take the chunks to his "place" and chew on them there, while
the beef hearts he just eats at the bowl.

Any caveats about raw kidneys? And what about raw liver? I enjoy cooked
liver; it is available at a good price, and I usually share some with
Muttley. But is it better to feed it to him raw?


Cooking causes a loss in nutrition so it's always better raw. The only
caveat is that too much liver will cause loose bowels so it's something
to build up to. It's excellent for a dog that is constipated.


The only seafood I can think of to stay away from is raw salmon. Can't
remember what it was in there that could be bad at the moment but I'm
sure you can Google it.


I had some shrimp last night and I gave the shells (which still contain
some meat) to him, and he seemed to enjoy it. I found a 3/4 lb package
on sale about half-price at about $3/lb, so I ate most of it but treated
him with the leftovers. Seems like a good thing.

I still feed him about half and half raw meats and kibble, and he seems
to be doing well with that combination. It seems like a lot to be
careful about to feed 100% raw, and it's probably more expensive and
more difficult to keep on hand. So I think a compromise is OK.

Paul and Muttley


  #5  
Old June 16th 10, 11:24 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
cshenk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,078
Default PING Char

"Char" wrote
cshenk wrote:


Having a really hard time locating the organ meat part of BARF locally.
It seems 'all chicken' isn't a good idea.


Correct. It lacks the right amount of zinc and iron that red meats have.
Red meats include pork which isn't so expensive.


What I read says it's good to start with chicken, but long term you have to
use other types mixed in. Got it. ;-) Found same thing with the bone
(should swap about but dosn't matter as much on type of animal as part of
animal?).

Can you give me a list of what
you normally use by animal for organ meats?


The best one of all is raw green tripe which can't be bought in stores
that sell human food. Finding a local source is best but you can buy it
online too.
http://greentripe.com/
http://www.hare-today.com/


Great! I have a query off. Have not located a source for green tripe
locally (looked specifically as saw it mentioned many times).

Grass fed tripe is best but grain fed will do.


Grin, I get it. Yes.

locally but am having problems with variety in organ meats other than
chicken. Also, Cash doesnt *like* liver very much and will turn up his
nose at chicken liver unless it's hidden well among other chicken hearts
and gizzards.


Two of my dogs don't like it either. What I do sometimes is sear it in a
pan so the outside is cooked but it's raw inside. Sprinkling it with some
garlic powder helps too.


grin, have to admit part of the idea is I don't have to cook the dog his
dinner. I'll look this weekend (hopefully) for beef liver.

My dogs do like beef kidneys though, and beef heart too. They are cheap
and the heart is good for any dog with heart problems. Heart is considered
a muscle meat though, not organ meat. They didn't like pork heart much but
your dog might,


I can get pig heart for .69/lb. We tried that last week and he likes it.
So does the cat!

If you can find an ethnic market (Hispanic, Asian) you will find all those
organ meats.


Great access to asian markets. Not so easy access to hispanic ones and the
only one I know of is a yuppified place with prices to match. Now the local
'halal' place has some decent stuff at decent prices. Humm!

Is squid bad as far as you know?


No, it's fine.

Body core, cleaned then we slice it. He
loves it. I wrapped a chicken liver in a bit of that and he almost ate
my fingers (grin). 'Dog sashimi' we call it. I don't plan to do it too
often as squid are a bit high on the mercury scale but just checking if
you know anything even if 'heard tell about it, not sure but here's what
I was told'.


The only seafood I can think of to stay away from is raw salmon. Can't
remember what it was in there that could be bad at the moment but I'm sure
you can Google it.


Probably because it commonly has a worm type that can infect mammals. Thats
why you don't want sashimi salmon unless you know exactly what to look for.
They are almost microscopic.

Cash's dinner tonight was about 1/2 lb of fillet cut milkfish plus some of
the spine.

One of the things we can add is coagulated pig blood. It's used in some
asian cookery and we have a supply. I can also get pork chiterlin's
(intestines, cleaned).


Green tripe would be better because of all the enzymes in it but pork
intestines and blood are fine too.


Ok, I made a pork blood stew some time back and Daisy went wild over it.
Cash was really happy with it as well. I can't get 'unslung chitlins' here
(basically green tripe it seems though more stomach than intestines) but I
can get these things.

It's good to feed as many different kinds of meats as possible so include
goat, lamb, venison, rabbit, whatever you can find now and then. Also,
nutritional values will vary from one part of an animal to another so
don't always feed the same parts.


Will be checking. Yes, same parts can be a problem I gather.

Add new protein sources one at a time just in case he happens to have a
reaction to any of them. Unlike commercial dog food you are adding just
one ingredient at a time so it makes things a lot easier to figure out
should there be an allergy.


Ok. I seriously doubt Cash has any meat allergies. He *may* have a wheat
or corn one.

As we work this out, he's been swapped to 'blue food' (Blue Wilderness).
Partial 'BARF' diet with kibble in the morning incase we aren't adding the
right nutrients at night.

  #6  
Old June 17th 10, 01:26 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Char
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 771
Default PING Char

On 6/16/2010 6:24 PM, cshenk wrote:
"Char" wrote
cshenk wrote:


Having a really hard time locating the organ meat part of BARF locally.
It seems 'all chicken' isn't a good idea.


Correct. It lacks the right amount of zinc and iron that red meats
have. Red meats include pork which isn't so expensive.


What I read says it's good to start with chicken, but long term you have
to use other types mixed in. Got it. ;-) Found same thing with the bone
(should swap about but dosn't matter as much on type of animal as part
of animal?).


What we want is as much variety over time as possible. Consider that a
wild dog would eat an entire carcass over a few days. This means no
parts are left out (they will shake out the stomach contents when
possible though). Some people feed that way, giving an entire animal to
their dog, head, fur and all. That is complete nutrition you can't get
out of a bag, even the high end stuff like Blue Wilderness.


Can you give me a list of what
you normally use by animal for organ meats?


The best one of all is raw green tripe which can't be bought in stores
that sell human food. Finding a local source is best but you can buy
it online too.
http://greentripe.com/
http://www.hare-today.com/


Great! I have a query off. Have not located a source for green tripe
locally (looked specifically as saw it mentioned many times).

Grass fed tripe is best but grain fed will do.


Grin, I get it. Yes.

locally but am having problems with variety in organ meats other than
chicken. Also, Cash doesnt *like* liver very much and will turn up his
nose at chicken liver unless it's hidden well among other chicken hearts
and gizzards.


Two of my dogs don't like it either. What I do sometimes is sear it in
a pan so the outside is cooked but it's raw inside. Sprinkling it with
some garlic powder helps too.


grin, have to admit part of the idea is I don't have to cook the dog his
dinner. I'll look this weekend (hopefully) for beef liver.


If you sear it less and less each time eventually he will be eating it raw.


My dogs do like beef kidneys though, and beef heart too. They are
cheap and the heart is good for any dog with heart problems. Heart is
considered a muscle meat though, not organ meat. They didn't like pork
heart much but your dog might,


I can get pig heart for .69/lb. We tried that last week and he likes it.
So does the cat!


Heart is excellent for cats because it has a lot of taurine in it. Cats
need different things from a raw diet than dogs do. Their perfect diet
would be more poultry based plus rabbit and mice. A mouse would be the
most perfect food for a cat. Some people buy them frozen for their cats.


If you can find an ethnic market (Hispanic, Asian) you will find all
those organ meats.


Great access to asian markets. Not so easy access to hispanic ones and
the only one I know of is a yuppified place with prices to match. Now
the local 'halal' place has some decent stuff at decent prices. Humm!

Is squid bad as far as you know?


No, it's fine.

Body core, cleaned then we slice it. He
loves it. I wrapped a chicken liver in a bit of that and he almost ate
my fingers (grin). 'Dog sashimi' we call it. I don't plan to do it too
often as squid are a bit high on the mercury scale but just checking if
you know anything even if 'heard tell about it, not sure but here's what
I was told'.


The only seafood I can think of to stay away from is raw salmon. Can't
remember what it was in there that could be bad at the moment but I'm
sure you can Google it.


Probably because it commonly has a worm type that can infect mammals.
Thats why you don't want sashimi salmon unless you know exactly what to
look for. They are almost microscopic.


Yep, that is exactly right. Thanks for posting that.


Cash's dinner tonight was about 1/2 lb of fillet cut milkfish plus some
of the spine.

One of the things we can add is coagulated pig blood. It's used in some
asian cookery and we have a supply. I can also get pork chiterlin's
(intestines, cleaned).


Green tripe would be better because of all the enzymes in it but pork
intestines and blood are fine too.


Ok, I made a pork blood stew some time back and Daisy went wild over it.
Cash was really happy with it as well. I can't get 'unslung chitlins'
here (basically green tripe it seems though more stomach than
intestines) but I can get these things.

It's good to feed as many different kinds of meats as possible so
include goat, lamb, venison, rabbit, whatever you can find now and
then. Also, nutritional values will vary from one part of an animal to
another so don't always feed the same parts.


Will be checking. Yes, same parts can be a problem I gather.


For a cat the list would be more like mice, rabbit, quail, chicken
although mine eat beef and pork just fine. My cats love chicken gizzards
and livers and raw or canned mackeral.


Add new protein sources one at a time just in case he happens to have
a reaction to any of them. Unlike commercial dog food you are adding
just one ingredient at a time so it makes things a lot easier to
figure out should there be an allergy.


Ok. I seriously doubt Cash has any meat allergies. He *may* have a wheat
or corn one.


The kibble you are feeding still has grains in it, just not wheat and
corn. No grains are appropriate for cats or dogs. Lots of people do
better with no grains too.


As we work this out, he's been swapped to 'blue food' (Blue Wilderness).
Partial 'BARF' diet with kibble in the morning incase we aren't adding
the right nutrients at night.


You are actually decreasing the chance that you are feeding
nutritionally sound by adding in kibble. You really don't have to
supplement when you feed raw. The only exception would be adding fish
oil if you feed meat that comes from the supermarket because it's
deficient in omega3 unlike grassfed. Fish oil can deplete vitamin e so I
add both a couple times a week.

Here are the ingredients in your kibble.
Buffalo, Oatmeal, Barley, Salmon Meal, Venison,Whole Brown Rice, Canola
Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols - a source of Natural Vitamin E
and Ascorbic Acid, a source of Vitamin C), Potatoes, Carrots, Peas,
Dried Chicken Liver, Whole Apples, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium
Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Lysine, Guar Gum, Salt, Choline Chloride,
Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Whole Blueberries, Yucca Schidigera Extract,
Whole Clove Garlic, Chondroitin Sulfate, Glucosamine Hydrochloride,
Natural Venison

Dogs are carnivores. Most of the ingredients are not appropriate for
them because they are high in carbs and sugar and they are not meat.

I'd say you are actually decreasing the chances of a complete diet by
adding the kibble. Here is something I wrote on a raw feeding group that
I saved about supplementing:

"I'd like to use this post as an example of how we all were trained to
think by the kibble minded. We see posts like this here all the time
and I know I used to think like that too.

We got used to thinking we needed to add things to our dogs's diets to
make it complete, and with kibble we really did. There are so many
products out there geared towards adding things to improve the diet.

Changing over to a species appropriate diet means we have to change
our thinking and go back to basics, trusting that it's really as
simple as it seems. It's a matter of trust really, and it's hard to do
at first. Adding things is a habit. Some of us tend to continue that
with premade raw mixes, many of which contain things not really necessary.

If we feed many kinds of meat, bones and organs we really don't have
to add anything past fish oil and vitamin E. On rare occasions I see a
pet that needs something because of a medical condition but well dogs
are fine.

It takes awhile to wrap our minds around this new way of thinking
sometimes but once you do it's rather refreshing!"

Char
  #7  
Old June 17th 10, 02:47 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Char
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 771
Default PING Char

On 6/16/2010 4:41 PM, Paul E. Schoen wrote:

I still feed him about half and half raw meats and kibble, and he seems
to be doing well with that combination. It seems like a lot to be
careful about to feed 100% raw, and it's probably more expensive and
more difficult to keep on hand. So I think a compromise is OK.


It's not all that difficult to do Paul. Some simple rules....

Feed 80% red meats, 10% poultry, 10% fish.

Out of that you want about 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% organ meats.

Some dogs do better with a higher bone ratio. The figures I use are
where to start and not written in stone. Heart is considered meat and
not organs BTW.

If you feed supermarket meats add fish oil and vitamin e twice a week.

Do you really feel that is so complicated? It isn't more expensive than
the top of the line kibbles and it's a complete diet. As for keeping it
on hand, many people use a small freezer so you can store those mark
downs as you find them. It saves you money, on your food and on the
dog's food.

It also saves on vet bills so back all that expense out of your budget.
I've not spent a cent on vets in a couple of years now and then it was
only because I adopted a dog that had heart problems. Even then I used
raw beef heart and herbal remedies (including CoQ10) that extended his
life to more than a year past diagnosis. The vet I used for his meds was
shocked when I made an appointment to get his meds renewed because the
dog should not have made it anywhere near that long.

That puts my total vet bills for the past 10 years or so at under $300.

A compromise is just that, not giving total nutrition to Muttley. You
have a good start there with the bones and heart. Keep going!

Char
  #8  
Old June 17th 10, 11:14 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
cshenk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,078
Default PING Char

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote
"Char" wrote


Hi Paul, sorry for delayed reply. Was worried about Cash but he's ok this
time. Bit 'runny' from the mild antibiotics but nothing too radical. I'm
sure the tests tomorrow will show a clean result.

My dogs do like beef kidneys though, and beef heart too. They are cheap
and the heart is good for any dog with heart problems. Heart is
considered a muscle meat though, not organ meat. They didn't like pork
heart much but your dog might,


I was going to get some beef hearts for Muttley last night, but they were
not available at the Food Lion. I did get some beef marrow bones that were
cut into 1" lengths, for $0.99/lb, and I froze them so I can give him one
or two a day.


I find variable local sources meaning a place may have something one trip,
and nothing next trip that I went there to get.

I use the same seeming raw marrow bone cuts you mention here. Cash loves
them. Muttley doesnt seem to have the same level of jaw-power as Cash (I
take that from the video mostly where you show him enjoying a marow bone)
but he would probably be able to make short work of a smaller cut.

I saw some beef kidneys for only about $0.79/lb, so I bought a one pound
piece and cut it into smaller chunks for him. He seemed to like it, but he
would take the chunks to his "place" and chew on them there, while the
beef hearts he just eats at the bowl.


Grin, I can tell a food is 'special' to Cash by where he eats it too.

Hilarous today! I put about 1/3 lb shrimp heads in his bowl mixed with 1/4
cup blue wilderness. Cash nosed the heads to the sides and ate all the
crunchies then Cash *carried the bowl* to his 'special place' and ate them
heads then *carried the bowl back*.

Think he's telling me something? LOL!

Any caveats about raw kidneys? And what about raw liver? I enjoy cooked
liver; it is available at a good price, and I usually share some with
Muttley. But is it better to feed it to him raw?


I think it's better raw? Cash isn't fond of chicken liver. Now and again
though, the cat will abscond with his share. I'm looking for pork and beef
liver to see if they both like that.

The only seafood I can think of to stay away from is raw salmon. Can't
remember what it was in there that could be bad at the moment but I'm
sure you can Google it.


I had some shrimp last night and I gave the shells (which still contain
some meat) to him, and he seemed to enjoy it. I found a 3/4 lb package on
sale about half-price at about $3/lb, so I ate most of it but treated him
with the leftovers. Seems like a good thing.


It works for me. If you get them with the heads, try the heads on Muttley.
I steam them whole and give the heads to Cash. Now and again the cat will
smack the dog (claws retracted) and steal one.


  #9  
Old June 18th 10, 12:05 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
cshenk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,078
Default PING Char

"Char" wrote
cshenk wrote:


What I read says it's good to start with chicken, but long term you have
to use other types mixed in. Got it. ;-) Found same thing with the bone
(should swap about but dosn't matter as much on type of animal as part
of animal?).


What we want is as much variety over time as possible. Consider that a
wild dog would eat an entire carcass over a few days. This means no parts
are left out (they will shake out the stomach contents when possible
though). Some people feed that way, giving an entire animal to their dog,
head, fur and all. That is complete nutrition you can't get out of a bag,
even the high end stuff like Blue Wilderness.


Agreed. However, until I can locate a stable supply of species appropriate
organ meats, I am working as best as I can. I'm fairly sure now there are
no distributors that I would trust, within a 140 mile round trip of me. I
live in a derth zone of this.

The upside is all I can get Cash, is human quality so don't have to worry
about that factor. (Hey, may not mattert that much but makes *me* feel good
that if I wanted a bite, I could!)

you normally use by animal for organ meats?


The best one of all is raw green tripe which can't be bought in stores
that sell human food. Finding a local source is best but you can buy
it online too.
http://greentripe.com/
http://www.hare-today.com/


Great! I have a query off. Have not located a source for green tripe
locally (looked specifically as saw it mentioned many times).


No answer yet from them but local community Yahoo folks say they 'ship to
the airport only' for our area. Possible idea of a group bulk shippage
being discussed.

locally but am having problems with variety in organ meats other than
chicken. Also, Cash doesnt *like* liver very much and will turn up his
nose at chicken liver unless it's hidden well among other chicken
hearts
and gizzards.

Two of my dogs don't like it either. What I do sometimes is sear it in
a pan so the outside is cooked but it's raw inside. Sprinkling it with
some garlic powder helps too.


grin, have to admit part of the idea is I don't have to cook the dog his
dinner. I'll look this weekend (hopefully) for beef liver.


If you sear it less and less each time eventually he will be eating it
raw.


I'd rather find things he likes.

I can get pig heart for .69/lb. We tried that last week and he likes it.
So does the cat!


Heart is excellent for cats because it has a lot of taurine in it. Cats
need different things from a raw diet than dogs do. Their perfect diet
would be more poultry based plus rabbit and mice. A mouse would be the
most perfect food for a cat. Some people buy them frozen for their cats.


Cool on the cat reason! I'm not worried though on converting her to BARF.
She's well on quality food and has no health issues at all. She'll probably
make age 20 or more.

Is squid bad as far as you know?

No, it's fine.

Body core, cleaned then we slice it. He
loves it. I wrapped a chicken liver in a bit of that and he almost ate
my fingers (grin). 'Dog sashimi' we call it. I don't plan to do it too
often as squid are a bit high on the mercury scale but just checking if
you know anything even if 'heard tell about it, not sure but here's
what
I was told'.


The only seafood I can think of to stay away from is raw salmon. Can't
remember what it was in there that could be bad at the moment but I'm
sure you can Google it.


Probably because it commonly has a worm type that can infect mammals.
Thats why you don't want sashimi salmon unless you know exactly what to
look for. They are almost microscopic.


Yep, that is exactly right. Thanks for posting that.


No problem. Since we 2foots eat a good deal of seafood and love sashimi, we
are generally pretty 'up' on what is safe.

Add new protein sources one at a time just in case he happens to have
a reaction to any of them. Unlike commercial dog food you are adding
just one ingredient at a time so it makes things a lot easier to
figure out should there be an allergy.


Ok. I seriously doubt Cash has any meat allergies. He *may* have a wheat
or corn one.


The kibble you are feeding still has grains in it, just not wheat and
corn. No grains are appropriate for cats or dogs. Lots of people do better
with no grains too.


Hey, best we can work out. Give me time to find local resorces.

As we work this out, he's been swapped to 'blue food' (Blue Wilderness).
Partial 'BARF' diet with kibble in the morning incase we aren't adding
the right nutrients at night.


You are actually decreasing the chance that you are feeding nutritionally
sound by adding in kibble. You really don't have to supplement when you
feed raw. The only exception would be adding fish oil if you feed meat
that comes from the supermarket because it's deficient in omega3 unlike
grassfed. Fish oil can deplete vitamin e so I add both a couple times a
week.


It's going to take time to find local sources for the proper fixings. Organ
meats are the main problem.

Here are the ingredients in your kibble.
Buffalo, Oatmeal, Barley, Salmon Meal, Venison,Whole Brown Rice, Canola
Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols - a source of Natural Vitamin E and
Ascorbic Acid, a source of Vitamin C), Potatoes, Carrots, Peas, Dried
Chicken Liver, Whole Apples, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate,
Potassium Chloride, Lysine, Guar Gum, Salt, Choline Chloride, Zinc Amino
Acid Complex, Whole Blueberries, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Whole Clove
Garlic, Chondroitin Sulfate, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Natural Venison

Dogs are carnivores. Most of the ingredients are not appropriate for them
because they are high in carbs and sugar and they are not meat.


There are several versions and we are trying them out.

For now, we can handle the meat and bone but without the organ meats he
needs balance.

adding the kibble. Here is something I wrote on a raw feeding group that I
saved about supplementing:

"I'd like to use this post as an example of how we all were trained to
think by the kibble minded. We see posts like this here all the time
and I know I used to think like that too.

We got used to thinking we needed to add things to our dogs's diets to
make it complete, and with kibble we really did. There are so many
products out there geared towards adding things to improve the diet.

Changing over to a species appropriate diet means we have to change
our thinking and go back to basics, trusting that it's really as
simple as it seems. It's a matter of trust really, and it's hard to do
at first. Adding things is a habit. Some of us tend to continue that
with premade raw mixes, many of which contain things not really necessary.

If we feed many kinds of meat, bones and organs we really don't have
to add anything past fish oil and vitamin E. On rare occasions I see a
pet that needs something because of a medical condition but well dogs
are fine.

It takes awhile to wrap our minds around this new way of thinking
sometimes but once you do it's rather refreshing!"


I can wrap my mind about it Char, I just have not located the right things
yet in my area on the organ set.

I bet my habits mean no fish oil need be added?


  #10  
Old June 22nd 10, 10:36 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
cshenk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,078
Default PING Char

"cshenk" wrote
"Char" wrote


Agreed. However, until I can locate a stable supply of species
appropriate organ meats, I am working as best as I can. I'm fairly sure
now there are no distributors that I would trust, within a 140 mile round
trip of me. I live in a derth zone of this.


Grin, quoting myself but update.

No luck with reliable sourcing for organ meats other than chicken locally.
Not raw ones at least. I'm assuming 'liverwurst' from beef isn't a good
one.

Is there harm is all the organ meats are chicken/duck but the rest (bones
and meats) are other things like pig, beef and some seafood? I may
occasionally see beef kidney or liver but there seems no stable place for
that (more, sometimes we have it). Chitlins (pork) are easy.

LOL, on chitlin's, gave him 2 little 3 inch sections. Cat stole the second
one. Now, we feed 3 (she gets 1). At least my treats are pretty healthy!


 




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