I've been reading here for a while (long enough to figure out the resident troll anyway) and have a few questions about
my puppy

I have an 7 month old Pomeranian puppy, adorable as all get out, but she won't play. She will box with you (lay on her
back with her feet waving about madly), but has no interest in toys. She won't play with the usual puppy toys, nor will
she chew on rawhide "chewies". She has lots of toys and chewies, but ignores them. The few times she tried to chew on
a shoe, she was told "NO" and the shoe was taken away from her. She is played with tons by everyone, but no one can
interest her in playing with toys...all she wants to do is lay on her back waving her feet around at your hands (my son
was the one that started calling it "boxing"). Is this normal?? I had bought a lot of chewies anticipating the "eat
everything because I'm teething stage", but like I said, won't chew on them, and now we are facing a very expensive
surgery to pull the baby teeth that are still in with the adult teeth that she has gotten in (she has two sets of teeth,
one set in front of the other, on both jaws), even despite her voracious appetite. Is there anyway to get her to play
with toys and chew on the rawhide to maybe coax the baby teeth out?

Another odd thing about her...she doesn't like treats. She won't eat anything but her puppy food, and if you put a
treat in her bowl, she won't eat it, she eats around it. In trying to housetrain her, I was told to give her a treat of
some sort after she does her business outside. She looks at you like you have a second head when you offer her a treat.
She even turns her nose up at cheese. At dinner time she will sit and beg, but the one time that my son dropped a
little piece of meat at her feet (on accident) while she was begging, she sniffed it, then didn't eat it. She just sat
there begging for *something*. The vet told me that a hard biscuit might be able to dislodge some of her baby teeth,
but she won't go near them. Again, is this normal, and what can I do about it???

TIA
Karlee in Kansas

P.S. With a 6yo boy in the house, and me being a stay at home mom, this little ball of fluff doesn't stay in her crate
much (normally only for bedtime or if we have to go to the store)...she gets tons of attention, so I don't think that
its a lack of attention that is causing this odd behavior. We also got her 90% housetrained without the use of
treats....just regular trips outside and lots of praise. There is the occasional accident in the house though, but I
chalk that up to having a little tiny bladder.

On 19 Jul 2003, LytaA opined:

but at the end of the day, on the
subject of dogs, his advice oozes love, respect, kindness and respect to
dogs, the same as you would expect to give to human children.

*boggle*

I'm sorry, but this is nothing but bullshit.

His advice oozes nothing of the sort. He shows no respect to dogs in his
posts, nor to their owners. People have made fatal mistakes with their dogs,
sure, as they might do with their children or themselves. Such is life. More
often, though, the mistakes do not rest on the shoulder of the owner. Jerry
is looking for any and every possible accusation he can find in every post,
and makes them up if he can't find any.

It is the height of irresponsibility to attribute love to Jerry's postings
here. Nothing Jerry proffers is the panacea for the fragility of life. He
will not cure your dog's cancer; he will not be able to stop them from being
harmed by another person or animal intent on harming them. He will not stop
your dog from eating a saussage he finds in your yard when you aren't there
to watch, whether or not there is rat poison burried deep inside its flesh.
His methods will not keep an unneutered dog from impregnating an unspade
bitch.

He is not a magician; he is a charlatan.

Chad

--
Looking for a pet? Adopt one! ** http://www.petfinder.com
Info for a healthy, happy dog? * http://www.dog-play.com

"I personally do not value 'customer testimonials'
because they can be fraudulent or paid
endorsements." Jerry Howe

On 19 Jul 2003 18:34:18 GMT, Dimpled Chad
wrote:

On 19 Jul 2003, LytaA opined:

but at the end of the day, on the
subject of dogs, his advice oozes love, respect, kindness and respect to
dogs, the same as you would expect to give to human children.

*boggle*

I'm sorry, but this is nothing but bullshit.

His advice oozes nothing of the sort. He shows no respect to dogs in his
posts, nor to their owners. People have made fatal mistakes with their dogs,
sure, as they might do with their children or themselves. Such is life. More
often, though, the mistakes do not rest on the shoulder of the owner. Jerry
is looking for any and every possible accusation he can find in every post,
and makes them up if he can't find any.

It is the height of irresponsibility to attribute love to Jerry's postings
here. Nothing Jerry proffers is the panacea for the fragility of life. He
will not cure your dog's cancer; he will not be able to stop them from being
harmed by another person or animal intent on harming them. He will not stop
your dog from eating a saussage he finds in your yard when you aren't there
to watch, whether or not there is rat poison burried deep inside its flesh.
His methods will not keep an unneutered dog from impregnating an unspade
bitch.

He is not a magician; he is a charlatan.

And a particularly nasty one at that. He's also an ignoramus, for he
claims that all dogs are the same, regardless of breed; that all
behavior problems are caused by mishandling; and that genetic
illnesses are caused by stress. His posts ooze venom and egomania.

Mustang Sally

On 19 Jul 2003, FurPaw opined:

Looks like your thread got hijacked :-(

Eh, I think you're right! Good for you to come back with a on-topic post.
Thanks, Furpaw...


I don't have a lot to contribute, except to say that some dogs
don't seem to have the play drive that others do

Right, and some dogs play in different ways. Frankie doesn't fetch balls, but
he sometimes fetches his squeek toys.

And some dogs have more mellow dispositions.

Chad


--
Looking for a pet? Adopt one! ** http://www.petfinder.com
Info for a healthy, happy dog? * http://www.dog-play.com


Nothing is impossible unless you have to do it yourself.

LOL, yep, looks like it got hijacked....even though I wasn't naming names, and still won't.

Either way, that's not the point of the my response...

She eats regular kibble (science diet - recommended by the vet) and has a voracious appetite. In talking to one of my
friends about her problem, they suggested that maybe she doesn't play *because* of the teeth thing. Maybe her little
mouth hurts and that is why she won't chew on anything. It is still looking like we are going to have to have them
surgically removed (probably at the same time that we have her fixed).

Thoughts?

Karlee in Kansas

--
Visit my web page! www.angelfire.com/ks3/karlee/index.html
Our family page: http://groups.msn.com/brennanfamilypage


--
"FurPaw" wrote in message ...
| Karlee in Kansas wrote:
| I've been reading here for a while (long enough to figure out the resident troll anyway) and have a few questions
about
| my puppy
|
| I have an 7 month old Pomeranian puppy, adorable as all get out, but she won't play.
|
| snip
|
| Another odd thing about her...she doesn't like treats. She won't eat anything but her puppy food, and if you put a
| treat in her bowl, she won't eat it, she eats around it.
|
| snip
|
|
| Hi, Karlee -
|
| Looks like your thread got hijacked :-(
|
| I don't have a lot to contribute, except to say that some dogs
| don't seem to have the play drive that others do. My male
| chihuahua, Gordo, played with his sister as a puppy, but wouldn't
| play with us, except to fetch. He's very submissive, and even
| the most gentle approaches to play got him cowering. He and his
| sister still play now and then (at age 12), but only if they
| think no one is watching them. Weird. He does like to chew on
| rawhide, however.
|
| Is your dog's regular food kibble or soft food? If you could
| induce her to eat a bit of kibble, maybe that would be a start on
| the teeth problem.
|
| She sounds like a sweetie!
|
| FurPaw
|
| --
| There's no reason to give credence to anything spoken above 90
| decibels.
|
| To reply, unleash the dog.
|

KUCKOOOOO!!!
CUCKOOOOOO!!!!!
ding!
ding!
ding!


KUCKOOOOO!!!
CUCKOOOOOO!!!!!
ding!
ding!
ding!

yer losing it chump,


Dimpled Chad wrote:
On 19 Jul 2003, LytaA opined:


but at the end of the day, on the
subject of dogs, his advice oozes love, respect, kindness and respect to
dogs, the same as you would expect to give to human children.


*boggle*

I'm sorry, but this is nothing but bullshit.

His advice oozes nothing of the sort. He shows no respect to dogs in his
posts, nor to their owners. People have made fatal mistakes with their dogs,
sure, as they might do with their children or themselves. Such is life. More
often, though, the mistakes do not rest on the shoulder of the owner. Jerry
is looking for any and every possible accusation he can find in every post,
and makes them up if he can't find any.

It is the height of irresponsibility to attribute love to Jerry's postings
here. Nothing Jerry proffers is the panacea for the fragility of life. He
will not cure your dog's cancer; he will not be able to stop them from being
harmed by another person or animal intent on harming them. He will not stop
your dog from eating a saussage he finds in your yard when you aren't there
to watch, whether or not there is rat poison burried deep inside its flesh.
His methods will not keep an unneutered dog from impregnating an unspade
bitch.

He is not a magician; he is a charlatan.

Chad



--
mi.chael
li.ve...

..http://dogtv.com/hope_attacks.mpg
..http://dogtv.com/hope_attacks.mpg
..http://dogtv.com/hope_attacks.mpg
..http://dogtv.com/hope_attacks.mpg
..http://dogtv.com/hope_attacks.mpg



================================================== ======
SHELLY IS THE ONLY ONE WHO DOESN'T THINK HATTIE IS STARVING

"when i got harriet she was emaciated, so i asked my vet for advice on
slowly adding weight to her. six months later i took harriet in for her
spring check-up and my vet was surprised that at how thin she still was."
--shelly couv.rette


"raises hand i've been told by three different vets that
harriet (53lbs) is *way* too skinny. we're still
vet-shopping, BTW."

--shelly couv.rette

"if you really can't resist
it when your dog pulls the "i'm starving!" routine G, you can give
him some frozen green beans or a small amount of plain pureed pumpkin.
i would also suggest putting the food out of his sight. i keep my
food--still inside the bags, which are tightly rolled down--inside
trash cans in the closed laundry room. that keeps it fresh and keeps
it out of my dogs' sight."

--shelly couv.rette

"heh. i get the opposite response. people think that poor little
harriet is positively starved to death. i've actually had people stop
me in the pet supply shop and tell me that i need to fatten her up!"

--shelly couv.rette


"i think that may be part of the problem. who wants to go to a
vet who tells you you're hurting your .widdle precious? i
think the other part is that some vets really don't *realize*
that what they consider proper weight is fat. after having
been told by a couple of vets that my dogs are too thin, i've
got a dim view of vets on that topic."

--shelly couv.rette

"my mom is kinda that way, but not *as* bad. she thinks that harriet is
awfully skinny, so feeding her table snax is okay. she tells me that
just a bite won't hurt."

--shelly couv.rette


NOBODY IS STARVING FAT PI.G SHELLY

NOBODY WILL STOP SHELLY ON THE STREET
AND TELL HER SHE IS STARVING HERSELF
shelly's fat face
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette/Wshelly2.jpg
================================================== =====


There are a lot of big fat women on these groups who starve their dogs
out of vanity, but shelly is a special case.

shelly is moor.e than a little bit beyond the pale

Shelly has OCD, and maybe she's just a little obsessive about measuring
out extra tiny and discrete portions with a tiny measuring cup, or
counting out pieces of green bean or pumpkin that she gives her dogs
when they give her the "I'm Starving" routine. When grandma tried to
give Hattie a snack, shelly probably went apeshit, because it was in
violation of her Obsessive need to oversee every tiny calorie that goes
into her widdle precious' mouth.

shelly's a special case, a special kind of dog abuser.

--
"montana" wrote in message ...
| In article ,
| "Karlee in Kansas" wrote:
|| It's quite possible that she won't play because her teeth hurt, it's
| also possible that she just doesn't "do" toys. Have you tried offering
| her a washcloth that has been dampened and frozen?

Not yet, but we will find out in the morning if she will play with that...sounds like a good suggestion.

|
| We don't give rawhides per our vet's advice that he's seen too many
| intestinal blockages from them. We do give sterilized bones. There are
| some that are stuffed with, for instance, peanut butter, and you can
| freeze them before you give them to her. You can also see if she's
| interested in ice cubes.

I'll try the ice cubes thing, but I can almost hear her thoughts on the sterlized bones...."you want me to WHAT? I think
not!" lol

|
| Part of me that remembers Bella chewing as a pup and makes me say count
| your blessings that she isn't interested in chewing.
|
| As for the treat thing, just use kibble if nothing else suits her (have
| you tried dried liver?). Our three dogs are chow hounds, but it's the
| *act* of our giving them treats that they love far more than the treat
| itself.

Sounds like a good idea...I'll try that too...

|
| Sorry to hear you may have to have her puppy teeth pulled, but if you
| have to do that, you have to do that. I'd trust our vet's advice. If you
| have any qualms about what your vet is telling you, by all means get a
| second opinion.

I'm thinking of doing that already. K-State vet school isn't far from where we live, and I'll go there for a second
opinion if I don't like what my vet has to say about the issue (vet is seeing her monday afternoon)

|
| What's your girl's name? That "boxing" description was priceless; she
| sounds like a doll.

Her name is Kasey, my 6yo named her. One of these days I'll get around to putting up an album on webshots so that
everyone can see her. She really is a cutie, maybe I'll get some pics of her doing her "boxing" thing. Its fun to play
with her like that, but sometimes I wish that she would fetch too....

Thanks for the suggestions,
Karlee in Kansas

On 19 Jul 2003, Karlee in Kansas opined:

|
| Sorry to hear you may have to have her puppy teeth pulled, but if you
| have to do that, you have to do that. I'd trust our vet's advice. If
| you have any qualms about what your vet is telling you, by all means
| get a second opinion.

I'm thinking of doing that already. K-State vet school isn't far from
where we live, and I'll go there for a second opinion if I don't like
what my vet has to say about the issue (vet is seeing her monday
afternoon)

I don't know if you've been there or not, but DW says they're a good bunch of
folk (she grew up in Manhattan, and they took care of her erstwhile shih tzu
Mookie).

Tooth issues can really change a dog's behavior. When we adopted frankie, he
was reluctant to eat anything. After a while we were a bit worried and took
him to the vet. His front teeth all were loose and were (thus) removed. Soon
thereafter he started eating with no misgivings.

Keep us posted. Hope all goes well...

Chad

--
Looking for a pet? Adopt one! ** http://www.petfinder.com
Info for a healthy, happy dog? * http://www.dog-play.com


Nothing is impossible unless you have to do it yourself.

"Karlee in Kansas" wrote in message ...
I've been reading here for a while (long enough to figure out the resident troll anyway) and have a few questions about
my puppy

I have an 7 month old Pomeranian puppy, adorable as all get out, but she won't play. She will box with you (lay on her
back with her feet waving about madly), but has no interest in toys. She won't play with the usual puppy toys, nor will
she chew on rawhide "chewies". She has lots of toys and chewies, but ignores them. The few times she tried to chew on
a shoe, she was told "NO" and the shoe was taken away from her. She is played with tons by everyone, but no one can
interest her in playing with toys...all she wants to do is lay on her back waving her feet around at your hands (my son
was the one that started calling it "boxing"). Is this normal?? I had bought a lot of chewies anticipating the "eat
everything because I'm teething stage", but like I said, won't chew on them, and now we are facing a very expensive
surgery to pull the baby teeth that are still in with the adult teeth that she has gotten in (she has two sets of teeth,
one set in front of the other, on both jaws), even despite her voracious appetite. Is there anyway to get her to play
with toys and chew on the rawhide to maybe coax the baby teeth out?

Another odd thing about her...she doesn't like treats. She won't eat anything but her puppy food, and if you put a
treat in her bowl, she won't eat it, she eats around it. In trying to housetrain her, I was told to give her a treat of
some sort after she does her business outside. She looks at you like you have a second head when you offer her a treat.
She even turns her nose up at cheese. At dinner time she will sit and beg, but the one time that my son dropped a
little piece of meat at her feet (on accident) while she was begging, she sniffed it, then didn't eat it. She just sat
there begging for *something*. The vet told me that a hard biscuit might be able to dislodge some of her baby teeth,
but she won't go near them. Again, is this normal, and what can I do about it???

TIA
Karlee in Kansas

P.S. With a 6yo boy in the house, and me being a stay at home mom, this little ball of fluff doesn't stay in her crate
much (normally only for bedtime or if we have to go to the store)...she gets tons of attention, so I don't think that
its a lack of attention that is causing this odd behavior. We also got her 90% housetrained without the use of
treats....just regular trips outside and lots of praise. There is the occasional accident in the house though, but I
chalk that up to having a little tiny bladder.


I think most dogs can be taught to play or to be hugged or just about
anything-just takes a little time to show them thne what. you want-but
some dogs like toys and some just don't seem interested in toys. My
dog has learned to love being hugged and love his grooming.
I had a dog that did not loose her baby teeth when the others came in
and had to be pulled but is was not a really big deal as they were
loose. The two sets of teeth did not seem to bother her but vet said
they would cause problems with her jaw

"sighthounds etc." wrote in message
...
On 19 Jul 2003 18:34:18 GMT, Dimpled Chad
wrote:

On 19 Jul 2003, LytaA opined:

but at the end of the day, on the
subject of dogs, his advice oozes love, respect, kindness and respect
to
dogs, the same as you would expect to give to human children.

*boggle*

I'm sorry, but this is nothing but bullshit.

His advice oozes nothing of the sort. He shows no respect to dogs in his
posts, nor to their owners. People have made fatal mistakes with their
dogs,
sure, as they might do with their children or themselves. Such is life.
More
often, though, the mistakes do not rest on the shoulder of the owner.
Jerry
is looking for any and every possible accusation he can find in every
post,
and makes them up if he can't find any.

It is the height of irresponsibility to attribute love to Jerry's
postings
here. Nothing Jerry proffers is the panacea for the fragility of life. He
will not cure your dog's cancer; he will not be able to stop them from
being
harmed by another person or animal intent on harming them. He will not
stop
your dog from eating a saussage he finds in your yard when you aren't
there
to watch, whether or not there is rat poison burried deep inside its
flesh.
His methods will not keep an unneutered dog from impregnating an unspade
bitch.

He is not a magician; he is a charlatan.

Jerry's methods of discrediting people here who are giving out advice after
having their own dogs put down *is* understandable.

Put it this way, say I decided that it was good to beat my child once a day,
with a very big stick. Child turns out to be a serial killer. Now, do I
get the blame for this or was the child born evil. I could take it two
ways, deny completely that I had anything to do with my child's lack of
compassion for fellow human beings - it wasnt my form of discipline that
made him that way or I could see the error of my own ways , then go onto a
child behaviour site and tell the whole world that the best way to keep a
kid in check is to beat it daily with a big stick!! OR, see the error of my
ways, take full blame and responsibility and tell the world that this is the
wrong way!

Regardless of Jerry's manic and insane way of attacking people here, you
surely can see where he is coming from. Would you forgive somebody the
death of an animal, if they havent learnt the error of their ways???

As I said previously, once I got through the rantings, I could see the
message.

Jerry may appear to believe he is a magician and can cure all, but all he
really wants is for people to cure *themselves* of their blinkered and
aggressive mindset attitudes, that tend to encroach on all things bright and
beautiful - soppy mush, you might say, but there isnt enough soppy mush in
this world - WE NEED SOPPY MUSH! Compassion, respect, enlightenment. I can
hear you all yawning now, but I dont care - I have it sussed, like Jerry
has - I still have many lessons to learn by many mistakes I have made in
life, but at least I am aware of my shortcomings and aim to adjust them.

I am sure that we could all discuss this forever and a day, defending and
attacking each other, for one reason and another, but the message stays the
same - people advocate violence towards animals to *CONTROL* them - but this
only encourages the animal to become insecure, volatile and unpredictable.


And a particularly nasty one at that. He's also an ignoramus, for he
claims that all dogs are the same, regardless of breed; that all
behavior problems are caused by mishandling; and that genetic
illnesses are caused by stress. His posts ooze venom and egomania.

As a Holistic Therapist (check that one out on the internet if you dont know
what it is!) I have researched illness in animals and humans alike - stress
is the major contributor to most, if not all, disease - genetic or not - man
has been doing himself in for thousands of years! Check your bodies out NOW
as you read this post - I bet your tongue is locked tight against the roof
of your mouth, I bet your shoulders are just under your ears, I bet the
hands are taught across the keyboard, tensing up the wrist joints - you are
just asking for arthritis there mateys!! And I bet you arent breathing
properly - shallow breathing disables the power of oxygen to move toxins and
other crap around and out of the body. Anyway, sorry for the digressing,
just trying to open ya eyes a little wider!!

Yes, Jerry's post are venomous and egomaniacal - he has a message to convey
about human's insistence of repeating patterns of aggressive behaviour, over
and over again.

Mustang Sally