Sierra did not do as well her second night in the bedroom with us. We
put her in the pen and she immediately started whining. That was
expected as that's what she does in the crate but settles down quietly
very quickly as we don't reward the behavior.

Last night, however, instead of settling down she escalated the whining
and lost her privilege to sleep in the bedroom with us. I immediately
took her back downstairs to her crate for the night.

This morning, I got up once to take her out for potty and went back to
bed putting her back in the crate. When I got up for real and went to
let her out, she was a wild child, jumping up and pushing on the door
and generally out of control.

Since I knew she was empty and not likely to pee for the delay, I
refused to open the door until she sat calmly using the "sit" and "wait"
commands. It took both to get her to calm down.

When I started opening the door and she got back up to jump around, I
closed the door and put her back into the sit/wait position. I made
sure she sat quietly while I opened the door, attached the leash, and
then finally gave a release word for her to break ranks.

So as Dogman and others have so often said, now that she knows certain
commands the goal is to work her especially under distractions so that
she ALWAYS obeys those commands, and to nix the wild child type behavior
in the bud.

--
Bad Dog Books
http://books.gityasome.com
Gityasome Tshirts
http://www.gityasome.com

On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 09:05:22 -0400, Sharon Delarose
wrote:

Sierra did not do as well her second night in the bedroom with us. We
put her in the pen and she immediately started whining. That was
expected as that's what she does in the crate but settles down quietly
very quickly as we don't reward the behavior.

Last night, however, instead of settling down she escalated the whining
and lost her privilege to sleep in the bedroom with us. I immediately
took her back downstairs to her crate for the night.

Sigh.

This morning, I got up once to take her out for potty and went back to
bed putting her back in the crate. When I got up for real and went to
let her out, she was a wild child, jumping up and pushing on the door
and generally out of control.

Since I knew she was empty and not likely to pee for the delay, I
refused to open the door until she sat calmly using the "sit" and "wait"
commands. It took both to get her to calm down.

No it didn't.

When I started opening the door and she got back up to jump around, I
closed the door and put her back into the sit/wait position.

What is a "sit/wait" position?

Doesn't sit mean sit?

Sigh.

I made
sure she sat quietly while I opened the door, attached the leash, and
then finally gave a release word for her to break ranks.

Why would you put her leash on and then "release" her?

Sigh.

So as Dogman and others have so often said, now that she knows certain
commands the goal is to work her especially under distractions so that
she ALWAYS obeys those commands, and to nix the wild child type behavior
in the bud.

Having the both of you to realize that sit means sit would help, don't
you think?

Sigh.

My eyes are bleeding again.

--
Dogman

On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 09:05:22 -0400, Sharon Delarose
wrote:

Sierra did not do as well her second night in the bedroom with us. We
put her in the pen and she immediately started whining. That was
expected as that's what she does in the crate but settles down quietly
very quickly as we don't reward the behavior.

Last night, however, instead of settling down she escalated the whining
and lost her privilege to sleep in the bedroom with us. I immediately
took her back downstairs to her crate for the night.

She whined, most likely because she is not used to the pen in the
bedroom, and you punished her by exiling her to the downstairs? Why
don't you just move her crate to the bedroom? What's the purpose of
the pen, anyway?

This morning, I got up once to take her out for potty and went back to
bed putting her back in the crate. When I got up for real and went to
let her out, she was a wild child, jumping up and pushing on the door
and generally out of control.

Since I knew she was empty and not likely to pee for the delay, I
refused to open the door until she sat calmly using the "sit" and "wait"
commands. It took both to get her to calm down.

When I started opening the door and she got back up to jump around, I
closed the door and put her back into the sit/wait position. I made
sure she sat quietly while I opened the door, attached the leash, and
then finally gave a release word for her to break ranks.

So as Dogman and others have so often said, now that she knows certain
commands the goal is to work her especially under distractions so that
she ALWAYS obeys those commands, and to nix the wild child type behavior
in the bud.

You do realize she's a puppy, though, right?

Sharon Delarose said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

Last night, however, instead of settling down she escalated
the whining and lost her privilege to sleep in the bedroom
with us. I immediately took her back downstairs to her
crate for the night.

She's a puppy in a brand new situation. Like potty-training,
you, a human adult, will have to start putting up with some
inconvenience for the "no pain no gain" result.

I have to believe that you've encountered the theory behind
working with a puppy, but have a difficult time understanding it
and applying it to your situation.

This is not a dig, this is a good book: I encourage you to
purchase the book "Puppies for Dummies" by Sarah Hodgson.

--
--Matt.

In article ,
Dogman wrote:


What is a "sit/wait" position?

Doesn't sit mean sit?

Yes, sit means sit, Dogman. Very good point.


Why would you put her leash on and then "release" her?

I never start her out in the morning off leash. When I let her out of
her crate for the day the first thing we do is go outdoors to potty on a
leash, even if I've gotten up earlier and let her out. I don't let her
off leash outdoors unless it's to allow her some playtime and burn off
dog energy.

She's pretty wound first thing in the morning, understandably, so I put
the leash on in the crate. While she's been doing great with her potty
routine, she is still a puppy and I'd prefer to avoid an accident by
delaying our way out to potty.

The leash/release is to teach her to be calm when I put the leash on in
the crate and not to charge the door of the crate until I give the go
ahead, much like the feeding routine, though the latter is done without
a leash.

"Sit" indoors she's pretty good with except in the crate, and the goal
is for her to be solid with "sit" anytime, anywhere, so I am reinforcing
it under different conditions such as in the crate.

Elsewhere I've been reminded that she is a puppy. Knowing Dakota's size
and age when we adopted her, and the bad habits she had from lack of
training, I want to avoid allowing Sierra to get that big and be
charging doors etc.

Sort of like you repeating over and over to teach a consistent COME, I
am repeating over and over with her to teach a consistent everything :-)

--
Bad Dog Books
http://books.gityasome.com
Gityasome Tshirts
http://www.gityasome.com

On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 15:48:14 -0400, Sharon Delarose
wrote:

In article ,
Dogman wrote:


What is a "sit/wait" position?

Doesn't sit mean sit?

Yes, sit means sit, Dogman. Very good point.

But what does it mean to *you,* Sharon?

Now's the time to tell me a story!

Why would you put her leash on and then "release" her?

I never start her out in the morning off leash. When I let her out of
her crate for the day the first thing we do is go outdoors to potty on a
leash, even if I've gotten up earlier and let her out. I don't let her
off leash outdoors unless it's to allow her some playtime and burn off
dog energy.

Is it just impossible for you to answer a direct question? Are you
having trouble understanding me?

Want to try again?

She's pretty wound first thing in the morning, understandably, so I put
the leash on in the crate. While she's been doing great with her potty
routine, she is still a puppy and I'd prefer to avoid an accident by
delaying our way out to potty.

The leash/release is to teach her to be calm

Sigh.

when I put the leash on in
the crate and not to charge the door of the crate until I give the go
ahead, much like the feeding routine, though the latter is done without
a leash.

Once again: Why would you put a leash on her and then "release" her?

What does "release" mean to *you*?

"Sit" indoors she's pretty good with except in the crate, and the goal
is for her to be solid with "sit" anytime, anywhere, so I am reinforcing
it under different conditions such as in the crate.

What do you do when she doesn't sit?

Elsewhere I've been reminded that she is a puppy. Knowing Dakota's size
and age when we adopted her, and the bad habits she had from lack of
training, I want to avoid allowing Sierra to get that big and be
charging doors etc.

Do you want to actually train her, or just talk about training her?

Or maybe just write about it?

Sort of like you repeating over and over to teach a consistent COME, I
am repeating over and over with her to teach a consistent everything :-)

Do you understand the difference between human baby brains and human
adult brains?

Do we start human babies off in college?

If not, why not?

Here's another opportunity for a story!

--
Dogman

In article ,
sighthounds & siberians wrote:

She whined, most likely because she is not used to the pen in the
bedroom, and you punished her by exiling her to the downstairs? Why
don't you just move her crate to the bedroom? What's the purpose of
the pen, anyway?

She's not used to being in the bedroom at night period. The crate is
too big to move up and down on a daily basis and we keep it in the
living room. While most of her day is spent out of the crate, there are
times when mama simply needs a few minutes to perform a task that
doesn't involve a dog leash, and the crate being in the living room at
least allows her to be near.

The pen is similar to a crate as it confines her but it also converts
and can be used as a doorway gate later on. It can also be attached to
the crate to create a crate/pen combo.

She has not earned freedom unsupervised such as when we sleep so she
needs to be in something until she has learned certain behaviors. We
absolutely don't trust her not to chew on our bedspread hanging off the
bed or Dakota's blanket or even furniture. She's got a long ways to go
with her chewing training, especially being a puppy. That's where the
pen comes in.

She was in the pen briefly today with her favorite bone while I was
folding clothes right next to her. She was peaceful and quiet and I
gave her positive reinforcement. I left the room a couple times to put
things away and then let her out with me.

I was actually surprised that she did not quiet down last night as she
has been doing very well at night. I thought being closer to us would
be a comfort to her. She did not like the barrier, no big surprise, but
as she has a barrier downstairs as well I did not expect her to whine,
whine louder, and then louder and louder instead of settling down like
she normally does.

I've been running on a LOT less sleep in general since we adopted her
and there's only so much not sleeping I can take so my needs won last
night. I'm working extra this week at work and they need me well rested.

--
Bad Dog Books
http://books.gityasome.com
Gityasome Tshirts
http://www.gityasome.com

On 14 Oct 2010 19:11:33 GMT, Matt wrote:


This is not a dig, this is a good book: I encourage you to
purchase the book "Puppies for Dummies" by Sarah Hodgson.

Matt, she says she's read the Monks books, so I don't think it's a
lack of knowledge here, but proper execution. Or something else
altogether.

You can lead a horse to water...

Hey, maybe she suffers from Idiopathic Schoen's Disease, or ISD?

For those not familiar with medical terms, ISD is a tragic disease,
causing the victim to totally lose the ability to take sound,
time-proven information and put it to good use. No matter how this
information is obtained, whether it's by reading it, hearing it, or
even observing it on videos or TVs. In fact, in certain rare cases,
the victim appears to actually lose more and more of this ability as
he or she is exposed to more and more information. There is no known
cure for this disease, and the cause of it is still unknown (although
it appears to strike liberals and progressives far more often than
conservatives or libertarians).

--
Dogman

On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 16:12:04 -0400, Sharon Delarose
wrote:

In article ,
sighthounds & siberians wrote:

She whined, most likely because she is not used to the pen in the
bedroom, and you punished her by exiling her to the downstairs? Why
don't you just move her crate to the bedroom? What's the purpose of
the pen, anyway?

She's not used to being in the bedroom at night period.

How do you suppose she'll get used to it by putting her downstairs?

Yes, here's a time for a story!

The crate is
too big to move up and down on a daily basis and we keep it in the
living room.

The crate belongs in your bedroom, right next to your bed, so that
your puppy can see and smell you. And of a size that will help prevent
her from making mistakes.

The pen belongs downstairs, where you can use it to help keep an eye
on her, while you're working, etc.

I've been running on a LOT less sleep in general since we adopted her
and there's only so much not sleeping I can take so my needs won last
night. I'm working extra this week at work and they need me well rested.

Welcome to the Puppy Club!

--
Dogman

"Sharon Delarose" wrote in message
...

snip of complaints about puppy behaviour

I have to ask: why did you adopt a puppy, since you obviously don't want
one, don't enjoy puppy behaviour, and are trying to "train" the puppy out of
your puppy? Jeez, I gotta go with Dogman: buy some books, get a PLAN, and
stick with it. And let your puppy be a puppy. If you keep pushing her like
this, and not allowing her to be a puppy, she will just become tense, upset
and even more unruly. To bitch that your puppy was all excited to see you
first thing in the morning after you banished her from the bedroom for
whining is just ridiculous. She doesn't have a clue why she was banished.
All she knows is this person who she was learning to trust is untrustworthy.

If it's advice that you're looking for (it's hard to tell, I'm starting to
wonder if you've got PS syndrome), and she's happy to sleep in her crate,
put her crate in your room! It's kind of a no-brainer.