If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
NY Times article on dog behavioral research
[]
A good read: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/19/sc...DOG.html?8hpib -- Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - Fascism should more properly be called 'corporatism,' since it is the marriage of government and corporate power. -- Benito Mussolini |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Melinda Shore wrote:
A good read: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/19/sc...DOG.html?8hpib In the context of what makes a good "working" dog (where work is detection/guide dog work), it is interesting. Statements like "The shyest breeds were the pinscher, the smooth-coated collie and the Rhodesian ridgeback." make me wonder about this test, though. I have little experience with smoothies, but most of the Dobies and Ridgies I know are anything but shy - I'd describe them as aloof maybe, but not shy. I wonder how something like that (aloofness as opposed to shyness), which may be a breed trait figures into the equation. Suja |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Melinda Shore wrote:
A good read: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/19/sc...DOG.html?8hpib In the context of what makes a good "working" dog (where work is detection/guide dog work), it is interesting. Statements like "The shyest breeds were the pinscher, the smooth-coated collie and the Rhodesian ridgeback." make me wonder about this test, though. I have little experience with smoothies, but most of the Dobies and Ridgies I know are anything but shy - I'd describe them as aloof maybe, but not shy. I wonder how something like that (aloofness as opposed to shyness), which may be a breed trait figures into the equation. Suja |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
"Suja" wrote in message ... Melinda Shore wrote: A good read: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/19/sc...DOG.html?8hpib In the context of what makes a good "working" dog (where work is detection/guide dog work), it is interesting. Statements like "The shyest breeds were the pinscher, the smooth-coated collie and the Rhodesian ridgeback." make me wonder about this test, though. I have little experience with smoothies, but most of the Dobies and Ridgies I know are anything but shy - I'd describe them as aloof maybe, but not shy. I wonder how something like that (aloofness as opposed to shyness), which may be a breed trait figures into the equation. Suja BTW, since this study was done in Europe, the "Pinscher" could be the German Pincher or Doberman. This research is from Sweden/Netherlands and at first I wondered if the translation is off. But then I saw this sentence: "A shy dog tends to be uninterested in play, timid, cautious and evasive in unfamiliar situations." Smoothies do tend to hang back and watch before they act but it's not because they are worried or scared. I think it's partly because they are pretty calm and non-reactive. They like to think before jumping into a situations. I've been into smooth collies since 1988 and IMHO they are in general playful (well except for Super Serious Zeffie), mellow, friendly and calmly self assured. The more I think of it, the more I think something about this article/study is seriously skewed. I also wonder if it was folks with schutzhund background who made up the tests and did the testing. I've read some German schutzhund temperament tests. For the part to test "play drive", what the schutzhund folks considered "play" is from a smooth collie point of view rude and too much in-your-face. Another paragraph from the article: "Behavioral tests, like the one Dr. Svartberg used, reward dogs for quick decisions on such questions as whether to approach a stranger, and do not measure hesitation when a dog responds to a new situation or noise or how quickly it recovers from excitement. But that lag time, Dr. Overall noted, allows a dog - for example, guide dogs who pause or ignore commands if they suspect danger - to assess a situation." Is this paragraph saying that shyer or bolder dogs have a lag time in responding to situations? It could be the wording but I'm not quite following what the writer is trying to say. This article seems to contradict the fact that the smooth collie is becoming more popular for guide dogs work. One of Pablo's brothers (from a different litter) is a working guide dog from Southeastern Guide dogs. Here's a page about Southeastern's favorite guide dog breeds: http://www.guidedogs.org/200/260/260.htm#good The first paragraph describes the type of temperament needed of a good guide dog: "show a willingness to work, be confident, tolerant, not shy or frightened in any situation, non-aggressive, adaptable to change, have initiative, and the ability to concentrate." Scroll down and see the lovely smooth collie breed listed. If you go to the page announcing new litters there are photos of 6 new litters of smoothies intended for future guide dog work. I would think if the smoothie wasn't suitable for such work, the folks at Southeastern would have figured it out by now. Chris and her snoozing smoothies, Zeffie & Pablo |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
"Suja" wrote in message ... Melinda Shore wrote: A good read: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/19/sc...DOG.html?8hpib In the context of what makes a good "working" dog (where work is detection/guide dog work), it is interesting. Statements like "The shyest breeds were the pinscher, the smooth-coated collie and the Rhodesian ridgeback." make me wonder about this test, though. I have little experience with smoothies, but most of the Dobies and Ridgies I know are anything but shy - I'd describe them as aloof maybe, but not shy. I wonder how something like that (aloofness as opposed to shyness), which may be a breed trait figures into the equation. Suja BTW, since this study was done in Europe, the "Pinscher" could be the German Pincher or Doberman. This research is from Sweden/Netherlands and at first I wondered if the translation is off. But then I saw this sentence: "A shy dog tends to be uninterested in play, timid, cautious and evasive in unfamiliar situations." Smoothies do tend to hang back and watch before they act but it's not because they are worried or scared. I think it's partly because they are pretty calm and non-reactive. They like to think before jumping into a situations. I've been into smooth collies since 1988 and IMHO they are in general playful (well except for Super Serious Zeffie), mellow, friendly and calmly self assured. The more I think of it, the more I think something about this article/study is seriously skewed. I also wonder if it was folks with schutzhund background who made up the tests and did the testing. I've read some German schutzhund temperament tests. For the part to test "play drive", what the schutzhund folks considered "play" is from a smooth collie point of view rude and too much in-your-face. Another paragraph from the article: "Behavioral tests, like the one Dr. Svartberg used, reward dogs for quick decisions on such questions as whether to approach a stranger, and do not measure hesitation when a dog responds to a new situation or noise or how quickly it recovers from excitement. But that lag time, Dr. Overall noted, allows a dog - for example, guide dogs who pause or ignore commands if they suspect danger - to assess a situation." Is this paragraph saying that shyer or bolder dogs have a lag time in responding to situations? It could be the wording but I'm not quite following what the writer is trying to say. This article seems to contradict the fact that the smooth collie is becoming more popular for guide dogs work. One of Pablo's brothers (from a different litter) is a working guide dog from Southeastern Guide dogs. Here's a page about Southeastern's favorite guide dog breeds: http://www.guidedogs.org/200/260/260.htm#good The first paragraph describes the type of temperament needed of a good guide dog: "show a willingness to work, be confident, tolerant, not shy or frightened in any situation, non-aggressive, adaptable to change, have initiative, and the ability to concentrate." Scroll down and see the lovely smooth collie breed listed. If you go to the page announcing new litters there are photos of 6 new litters of smoothies intended for future guide dog work. I would think if the smoothie wasn't suitable for such work, the folks at Southeastern would have figured it out by now. Chris and her snoozing smoothies, Zeffie & Pablo |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Statements like "The
shyest breeds were the pinscher, the smooth-coated collie and the Rhodesian ridgeback." make me wonder about this test, though. I have little experience with smoothies, but most of the Dobies and Ridgies I know are anything but shy - I'd describe them as aloof maybe, but not shy. I wonder how something like that (aloofness as opposed to shyness), which may be a breed trait figures into the equation. Suja That study was done in Denmark. There are often pretty strong regional differences in gene pools, which is exactly why the study will not be able to come up with any different answers than we already know based on Scott and Fuller's statement. Also, the 'shy' vs.'aloof' definition was raised by Overall - we're using human terms to describe and they have shortcomings. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Statements like "The
shyest breeds were the pinscher, the smooth-coated collie and the Rhodesian ridgeback." make me wonder about this test, though. I have little experience with smoothies, but most of the Dobies and Ridgies I know are anything but shy - I'd describe them as aloof maybe, but not shy. I wonder how something like that (aloofness as opposed to shyness), which may be a breed trait figures into the equation. Suja That study was done in Denmark. There are often pretty strong regional differences in gene pools, which is exactly why the study will not be able to come up with any different answers than we already know based on Scott and Fuller's statement. Also, the 'shy' vs.'aloof' definition was raised by Overall - we're using human terms to describe and they have shortcomings. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Chris Jung wrote:
Chris and her snoozing smoothies, Zeffie & Pablo Chris, I take it that Lilo, demon puppy from heck has gone home. Are her parents revising their expectations and keeping her? Suja P.S. Apologies to Melinda for attempted hijacking of thread. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Chris Jung wrote:
Chris and her snoozing smoothies, Zeffie & Pablo Chris, I take it that Lilo, demon puppy from heck has gone home. Are her parents revising their expectations and keeping her? Suja P.S. Apologies to Melinda for attempted hijacking of thread. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
"Melinda Shore" wrote in message ... [] A good read: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/19/sc...DOG.html?8hpib -- what? AmStaffs are bold? nah, i never would have guessed! -kelly |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
AARP Article (Not OT) | Suja | Dog breeds | 0 | April 20th 04 07:40 PM |
Arthritis in my lab | Bob | Dog health | 8 | March 5th 04 04:38 AM |