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NY Times article on dog behavioral research



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 19th 03, 01:32 PM
Melinda Shore
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Default NY Times article on dog behavioral research

[]
A good read:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/19/sc...DOG.html?8hpib
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Fascism should more properly be called 'corporatism,' since it
is the marriage of government and corporate power. -- Benito Mussolini
  #2  
Old August 19th 03, 01:49 PM
Suja
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Melinda Shore wrote:

A good read:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/19/sc...DOG.html?8hpib


In the context of what makes a good "working" dog (where work is
detection/guide dog work), it is interesting. Statements like "The
shyest breeds were the pinscher, the smooth-coated collie and the
Rhodesian ridgeback." make me wonder about this test, though. I have
little experience with smoothies, but most of the Dobies and Ridgies I
know are anything but shy - I'd describe them as aloof maybe, but not
shy. I wonder how something like that (aloofness as opposed to
shyness), which may be a breed trait figures into the equation.

Suja
  #3  
Old August 19th 03, 01:49 PM
Suja
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Melinda Shore wrote:

A good read:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/19/sc...DOG.html?8hpib


In the context of what makes a good "working" dog (where work is
detection/guide dog work), it is interesting. Statements like "The
shyest breeds were the pinscher, the smooth-coated collie and the
Rhodesian ridgeback." make me wonder about this test, though. I have
little experience with smoothies, but most of the Dobies and Ridgies I
know are anything but shy - I'd describe them as aloof maybe, but not
shy. I wonder how something like that (aloofness as opposed to
shyness), which may be a breed trait figures into the equation.

Suja
  #4  
Old August 19th 03, 03:48 PM
Chris Jung
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Default


"Suja" wrote in message
...
Melinda Shore wrote:

A good read:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/19/sc...DOG.html?8hpib


In the context of what makes a good "working" dog (where work is
detection/guide dog work), it is interesting. Statements like "The
shyest breeds were the pinscher, the smooth-coated collie and the
Rhodesian ridgeback." make me wonder about this test, though. I have
little experience with smoothies, but most of the Dobies and Ridgies I
know are anything but shy - I'd describe them as aloof maybe, but not
shy. I wonder how something like that (aloofness as opposed to
shyness), which may be a breed trait figures into the equation.

Suja

BTW, since this study was done in Europe, the "Pinscher" could be the German
Pincher or Doberman.

This research is from Sweden/Netherlands and at first I wondered if the
translation is off. But then I saw this sentence: "A shy dog tends to be
uninterested in play, timid, cautious and evasive in unfamiliar situations."

Smoothies do tend to hang back and watch before they act but it's not
because they are worried or scared. I think it's partly because they are
pretty calm and non-reactive. They like to think before jumping into a
situations. I've been into smooth collies since 1988 and IMHO they are in
general playful (well except for Super Serious Zeffie), mellow, friendly and
calmly self assured. The more I think of it, the more I think something
about this article/study is seriously skewed. I also wonder if it was
folks with schutzhund background who made up the tests and did the testing.
I've read some German schutzhund temperament tests. For the part to test
"play drive", what the schutzhund folks considered "play" is from a smooth
collie point of view rude and too much in-your-face.

Another paragraph from the article:
"Behavioral tests, like the one Dr. Svartberg used, reward dogs for quick
decisions on such questions as whether to approach a stranger, and do not
measure hesitation when a dog responds to a new situation or noise or how
quickly it recovers from excitement. But that lag time, Dr. Overall noted,
allows a dog - for example, guide dogs who pause or ignore commands if they
suspect danger - to assess a situation."

Is this paragraph saying that shyer or bolder dogs have a lag time in
responding to situations? It could be the wording but I'm not quite
following what the writer is trying to say.

This article seems to contradict the fact that the smooth collie is becoming
more popular for guide dogs work. One of Pablo's brothers (from a different
litter) is a working guide dog from Southeastern Guide dogs. Here's a page
about Southeastern's favorite guide dog breeds:
http://www.guidedogs.org/200/260/260.htm#good The first paragraph describes
the type of temperament needed of a good guide dog: "show a willingness to
work, be confident, tolerant, not shy or frightened in any situation,
non-aggressive, adaptable to change, have initiative, and the ability to
concentrate." Scroll down and see the lovely smooth collie breed listed. If
you go to the page announcing new litters there are photos of 6 new litters
of smoothies intended for future guide dog work. I would think if the
smoothie wasn't suitable for such work, the folks at Southeastern would have
figured it out by now.

Chris and her snoozing smoothies, Zeffie & Pablo




  #5  
Old August 19th 03, 03:48 PM
Chris Jung
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Suja" wrote in message
...
Melinda Shore wrote:

A good read:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/19/sc...DOG.html?8hpib


In the context of what makes a good "working" dog (where work is
detection/guide dog work), it is interesting. Statements like "The
shyest breeds were the pinscher, the smooth-coated collie and the
Rhodesian ridgeback." make me wonder about this test, though. I have
little experience with smoothies, but most of the Dobies and Ridgies I
know are anything but shy - I'd describe them as aloof maybe, but not
shy. I wonder how something like that (aloofness as opposed to
shyness), which may be a breed trait figures into the equation.

Suja

BTW, since this study was done in Europe, the "Pinscher" could be the German
Pincher or Doberman.

This research is from Sweden/Netherlands and at first I wondered if the
translation is off. But then I saw this sentence: "A shy dog tends to be
uninterested in play, timid, cautious and evasive in unfamiliar situations."

Smoothies do tend to hang back and watch before they act but it's not
because they are worried or scared. I think it's partly because they are
pretty calm and non-reactive. They like to think before jumping into a
situations. I've been into smooth collies since 1988 and IMHO they are in
general playful (well except for Super Serious Zeffie), mellow, friendly and
calmly self assured. The more I think of it, the more I think something
about this article/study is seriously skewed. I also wonder if it was
folks with schutzhund background who made up the tests and did the testing.
I've read some German schutzhund temperament tests. For the part to test
"play drive", what the schutzhund folks considered "play" is from a smooth
collie point of view rude and too much in-your-face.

Another paragraph from the article:
"Behavioral tests, like the one Dr. Svartberg used, reward dogs for quick
decisions on such questions as whether to approach a stranger, and do not
measure hesitation when a dog responds to a new situation or noise or how
quickly it recovers from excitement. But that lag time, Dr. Overall noted,
allows a dog - for example, guide dogs who pause or ignore commands if they
suspect danger - to assess a situation."

Is this paragraph saying that shyer or bolder dogs have a lag time in
responding to situations? It could be the wording but I'm not quite
following what the writer is trying to say.

This article seems to contradict the fact that the smooth collie is becoming
more popular for guide dogs work. One of Pablo's brothers (from a different
litter) is a working guide dog from Southeastern Guide dogs. Here's a page
about Southeastern's favorite guide dog breeds:
http://www.guidedogs.org/200/260/260.htm#good The first paragraph describes
the type of temperament needed of a good guide dog: "show a willingness to
work, be confident, tolerant, not shy or frightened in any situation,
non-aggressive, adaptable to change, have initiative, and the ability to
concentrate." Scroll down and see the lovely smooth collie breed listed. If
you go to the page announcing new litters there are photos of 6 new litters
of smoothies intended for future guide dog work. I would think if the
smoothie wasn't suitable for such work, the folks at Southeastern would have
figured it out by now.

Chris and her snoozing smoothies, Zeffie & Pablo




  #6  
Old August 19th 03, 03:49 PM
Tricia9999
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Posts: n/a
Default

Statements like "The
shyest breeds were the pinscher, the smooth-coated collie and the
Rhodesian ridgeback." make me wonder about this test, though. I have
little experience with smoothies, but most of the Dobies and Ridgies I
know are anything but shy - I'd describe them as aloof maybe, but not
shy. I wonder how something like that (aloofness as opposed to
shyness), which may be a breed trait figures into the equation.

Suja


That study was done in Denmark. There are often pretty strong regional
differences in gene pools, which is exactly why the study will not be able to
come up with any different answers than we already know based on Scott and
Fuller's statement.

Also, the 'shy' vs.'aloof' definition was raised by Overall - we're using human
terms to describe and they have shortcomings.
  #7  
Old August 19th 03, 03:49 PM
Tricia9999
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Statements like "The
shyest breeds were the pinscher, the smooth-coated collie and the
Rhodesian ridgeback." make me wonder about this test, though. I have
little experience with smoothies, but most of the Dobies and Ridgies I
know are anything but shy - I'd describe them as aloof maybe, but not
shy. I wonder how something like that (aloofness as opposed to
shyness), which may be a breed trait figures into the equation.

Suja


That study was done in Denmark. There are often pretty strong regional
differences in gene pools, which is exactly why the study will not be able to
come up with any different answers than we already know based on Scott and
Fuller's statement.

Also, the 'shy' vs.'aloof' definition was raised by Overall - we're using human
terms to describe and they have shortcomings.
  #8  
Old August 19th 03, 04:04 PM
Suja
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Chris Jung wrote:

Chris and her snoozing smoothies, Zeffie & Pablo


Chris, I take it that Lilo, demon puppy from heck has gone home. Are
her parents revising their expectations and keeping her?

Suja
P.S. Apologies to Melinda for attempted hijacking of thread.
  #9  
Old August 19th 03, 04:04 PM
Suja
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Chris Jung wrote:

Chris and her snoozing smoothies, Zeffie & Pablo


Chris, I take it that Lilo, demon puppy from heck has gone home. Are
her parents revising their expectations and keeping her?

Suja
P.S. Apologies to Melinda for attempted hijacking of thread.
  #10  
Old August 19th 03, 04:10 PM
culprit
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
[]
A good read:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/19/sc...DOG.html?8hpib
--


what? AmStaffs are bold? nah, i never would have guessed!

-kelly


 




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