If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
I Got Bitten Today
|
#2
|
|||
|
|||
"Debbie S" wrote in message ... From: If there isn't any real work left for Border Collies, therefore we don't need real working Border Collies anymore, then where exactly are all these ranches that all these crappily-structured Border Collies are coming from? The ones I'm aware of are coming from WA, ID, and to a lesser extent, OR. And, to throw this is (Sorry, I didn't get in on the beginnings of this one): How many "real working ranches" are there on the East Coast, or PA/NJ/NY type area in comparison to what there are out here. There are still a considerable amount of people out here that earn their livings with livestock based ranches/farms, especially in the Eastern part of WA & OR, and northern ID. And, yes, there are a lot of crappy structured BCs that come from those ranches. I'm thinking of a place out of Ellensburg, WA just off the top of my head that I've seen a few "disaster BCs" come into our clinic alone, and we're a good distance from Ellensburg. But, they advertise, and farm folks looking for a good started dog to do small (and/or hobby) farm work will turn to them. And I won't even begin w/ the "working dogs" out at my husband's families ranch. Several of them are great workers, but few of them make it past 5 or 6 years of age because their body breaks down. I'm not disputing the fact that they made poor judgment in choosing who/where their dogs come from, but they're out there just like the "really nice dogs" are. Shelly & The Boys |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
"Debbie S" wrote in message ... From: If there isn't any real work left for Border Collies, therefore we don't need real working Border Collies anymore, then where exactly are all these ranches that all these crappily-structured Border Collies are coming from? The ones I'm aware of are coming from WA, ID, and to a lesser extent, OR. And, to throw this is (Sorry, I didn't get in on the beginnings of this one): How many "real working ranches" are there on the East Coast, or PA/NJ/NY type area in comparison to what there are out here. There are still a considerable amount of people out here that earn their livings with livestock based ranches/farms, especially in the Eastern part of WA & OR, and northern ID. And, yes, there are a lot of crappy structured BCs that come from those ranches. I'm thinking of a place out of Ellensburg, WA just off the top of my head that I've seen a few "disaster BCs" come into our clinic alone, and we're a good distance from Ellensburg. But, they advertise, and farm folks looking for a good started dog to do small (and/or hobby) farm work will turn to them. And I won't even begin w/ the "working dogs" out at my husband's families ranch. Several of them are great workers, but few of them make it past 5 or 6 years of age because their body breaks down. I'm not disputing the fact that they made poor judgment in choosing who/where their dogs come from, but they're out there just like the "really nice dogs" are. Shelly & The Boys |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
"Melanie L Chang" wrote in message ... But you know, I still believe you when you say you have a good one, and know good ones, and that they aren't all spooky freaks who'll take your face off as soon as wag a tail. Okay...now, to put you on the defensive was not at all what I was intending, but rather just trying to put forth what we've got out *here*. I do believe you Melanie, just like I'd like to think that people will believe me when I say there *are* good Belgians out there, even though the population is considerably smaller, and you've just got to get out there and LOOK. Hell, my neighbor down the road raises sheep for a living, and has 2 very nice BCs, temperament-wise. Health-wise, I can't comment on, because it's just not a conversation we've ever head. Since I had never been to your region before, I honestly wanted to know what sort of sheep operations were in & around the area. (Just the same as my honest, "I asked because I don't know & want to find out!" question sheep who've never seen BC's in another post.) You know, there are a whole lot of us out there fighting for this breed, who love it and are mystified by it and find it amazing and don't want it to change. We're not a bunch of dummies. I cut my teeth in the dog world here, on these newsgroups, so I went in as skeptical as any of you. I am an empiricist. Data convinces me. When I say that this is an amazing breed and that there are a lot of really great dogs out there, dogs who are temperamentally and physically sound, and when I say I think I'll have a very hard time finding a good pup from a responsible breeder when the time comes, Okay...here is something. YOU think you'll have an easy time finding a good puppy. Just like I know that *I* won't have a tough time finding my next Belgian. You, like me, know people IN the breed. Know where to look and where not to look. But, I'd venture to say it's not always that way for someone not already involved in the breed--no matter how experienced they are. And I do say it, because I have a friend who's been in Belgians for a long time, breeds, handles her own dogs in conformation, trains and competes in both agility and herding with if not all, most of her dogs that is currently looking into another breed for her son. In that other breed, she literally knows but a small handful of people. She is starting at the bottom, so to speak. Yes, she's got clout, definitely, but she's finding out that she still has to go through all of the games to find the real honest answers to stuff she wants to know. I'm not lying and I'm not making **** up. YOU GUYS taught me how to evaluate breeders and dogs. I started reading these groups before I got Harley. (These groups are how I got Harley.) Read this again: I'm not making this **** up! I never thought that you were. But, you are seeing things from "inside" the BC circle, which isn't where Debbie, or anyone else that isn't involved in BCs. And, yes, I'm sure that as much as anyone, you worked very hard to learn about the breed & people involved in it to be there. BC's are a common breed out here. "Farm dogs" like BCs, Aussies & ACDs are a dime a dozen in the Pac. NW. That new Cowboy phase that hit several years ago, when nearly every guy in the small towns drove around town in a huge Dodge pick-up truck and at least one of those 3 breeds in the back, left a pretty good population explosion within a few years time. That's not to say that East Coast isn't overrun w/ BCs & the like in shelters, because I know they've got their share. I guess my point is, that there are just way more crappy ones than good ones. BUT, I'm not involved in the breed--so I only see it from the outside. .. I'm sad not only because some people will never understand why working a real Border Collie on stock is so magical, but also because they don't even care to try. And, if it matters at all, I *do* happen to care. This is coming from someone that is new to the sport, but it's already taken such a hold on my own life that it's something I'd rather do than just about anything else. To try & explain *why* I enjoy going herding with Bodhi to someone that's never gone is almost pointless. Unless you've been there, and seen it, and felt the way you do when that "lightbulb" just goes on, or when they start flanking the way they should (instead of circling all of the time!), or when they do their first "stop" or walk-up, they won't understand. shrug Shelly & The Boys |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
"Melanie L Chang" wrote in message ... But you know, I still believe you when you say you have a good one, and know good ones, and that they aren't all spooky freaks who'll take your face off as soon as wag a tail. Okay...now, to put you on the defensive was not at all what I was intending, but rather just trying to put forth what we've got out *here*. I do believe you Melanie, just like I'd like to think that people will believe me when I say there *are* good Belgians out there, even though the population is considerably smaller, and you've just got to get out there and LOOK. Hell, my neighbor down the road raises sheep for a living, and has 2 very nice BCs, temperament-wise. Health-wise, I can't comment on, because it's just not a conversation we've ever head. Since I had never been to your region before, I honestly wanted to know what sort of sheep operations were in & around the area. (Just the same as my honest, "I asked because I don't know & want to find out!" question sheep who've never seen BC's in another post.) You know, there are a whole lot of us out there fighting for this breed, who love it and are mystified by it and find it amazing and don't want it to change. We're not a bunch of dummies. I cut my teeth in the dog world here, on these newsgroups, so I went in as skeptical as any of you. I am an empiricist. Data convinces me. When I say that this is an amazing breed and that there are a lot of really great dogs out there, dogs who are temperamentally and physically sound, and when I say I think I'll have a very hard time finding a good pup from a responsible breeder when the time comes, Okay...here is something. YOU think you'll have an easy time finding a good puppy. Just like I know that *I* won't have a tough time finding my next Belgian. You, like me, know people IN the breed. Know where to look and where not to look. But, I'd venture to say it's not always that way for someone not already involved in the breed--no matter how experienced they are. And I do say it, because I have a friend who's been in Belgians for a long time, breeds, handles her own dogs in conformation, trains and competes in both agility and herding with if not all, most of her dogs that is currently looking into another breed for her son. In that other breed, she literally knows but a small handful of people. She is starting at the bottom, so to speak. Yes, she's got clout, definitely, but she's finding out that she still has to go through all of the games to find the real honest answers to stuff she wants to know. I'm not lying and I'm not making **** up. YOU GUYS taught me how to evaluate breeders and dogs. I started reading these groups before I got Harley. (These groups are how I got Harley.) Read this again: I'm not making this **** up! I never thought that you were. But, you are seeing things from "inside" the BC circle, which isn't where Debbie, or anyone else that isn't involved in BCs. And, yes, I'm sure that as much as anyone, you worked very hard to learn about the breed & people involved in it to be there. BC's are a common breed out here. "Farm dogs" like BCs, Aussies & ACDs are a dime a dozen in the Pac. NW. That new Cowboy phase that hit several years ago, when nearly every guy in the small towns drove around town in a huge Dodge pick-up truck and at least one of those 3 breeds in the back, left a pretty good population explosion within a few years time. That's not to say that East Coast isn't overrun w/ BCs & the like in shelters, because I know they've got their share. I guess my point is, that there are just way more crappy ones than good ones. BUT, I'm not involved in the breed--so I only see it from the outside. .. I'm sad not only because some people will never understand why working a real Border Collie on stock is so magical, but also because they don't even care to try. And, if it matters at all, I *do* happen to care. This is coming from someone that is new to the sport, but it's already taken such a hold on my own life that it's something I'd rather do than just about anything else. To try & explain *why* I enjoy going herding with Bodhi to someone that's never gone is almost pointless. Unless you've been there, and seen it, and felt the way you do when that "lightbulb" just goes on, or when they start flanking the way they should (instead of circling all of the time!), or when they do their first "stop" or walk-up, they won't understand. shrug Shelly & The Boys |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
|
#7
|
|||
|
|||
|
#8
|
|||
|
|||
|
#9
|
|||
|
|||
|
#10
|
|||
|
|||
|
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
I Got Bitten Today | Leah | Dog behavior | 114 | September 9th 03 01:51 PM |
I Got Bitten Today | Sionnach | Dog behavior | 4 | August 25th 03 02:52 PM |
I Got Bitten Today | Leah | Dog behavior | 6 | August 25th 03 06:27 AM |
I Got Bitten Today | Leah | Dog behavior | 0 | August 23rd 03 01:59 PM |
I Got Bitten Today | Leah | Dog behavior | 0 | August 23rd 03 01:13 AM |