(DogStar716) wrote:
For behavior problems like trash raiding, chewing up shoes, digging in the
yard, I'd rather just prevent the behavior than have the stress of trying to
teach the dog not to dig in the open accessible trash can while I am gone.

I agree with you. I tell my students that there are times they're going to
have to pick their battles. If it really bothers somebody to put the trash or
shoes up while they're gone, then by all means they can attempt training. But
training something remotely is, to me, much more of a p.i.t.a. than simply
putting things out of reach.

I gave up on it after I put pots and pans on the kitchen counters to keep
MacKenzie from counter-surfing in my absence. I came home to find all the pots
and pans on the floor, along with the remains of everything else that was up
there.

So I just stopped leaving anything edible on the counters. Once there wasn't
anything tempting up there, she broke her habit. Now she never gets up there.

I just put the trash behind closed doors. Kenzie and Murphy will still get
into that (though, amazingly enough, Madigan won't).

PetsMart Pet Trainer
My Kids, My Students, My Life:
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/m...age/index.html
Last updated June 27 at 10:00 a.m.

(DogStar716) wrote:
For behavior problems like trash raiding, chewing up shoes, digging in the
yard, I'd rather just prevent the behavior than have the stress of trying to
teach the dog not to dig in the open accessible trash can while I am gone.

I agree with you. I tell my students that there are times they're going to
have to pick their battles. If it really bothers somebody to put the trash
or
shoes up while they're gone, then by all means they can attempt training.
But
training something remotely is, to me, much more of a p.i.t.a. than simply
putting things out of reach.

I'm sorry, I may be a bit confused here....but aren't you two "dog trainers"?
Why on earth would you two be "putting things out of your dogs reach" instead
of TRAINING them that it is not acceptable not to do such things?

Quick fix? Easy way out? If I'm going to "pay" someone to help me train my
dogs...then I want to know "how to do it" not....eliminate the temptation...so
that will be the end of it?


I gave up on it after I put pots and pans on the kitchen counters to keep
MacKenzie from counter-surfing in my absence. I came home to find all the
pots
and pans on the floor, along with the remains of everything else that was up
there.

So I just stopped leaving anything edible on the counters. Once there wasn't
anything tempting up there, she broke her habit. Now she never gets up
there.

How do you know the temptation is still not really there...that she really
"broke her habit."? Have you left a fresh baked pie, biscuits, or muffins there
lately? I think not because of your earlier statements.


I just put the trash behind closed doors. Kenzie and Murphy will still get
into that (though, amazingly enough, Madigan won't).

I have had trash divers before. Never did I "put up the trash" while we were
out. We TRAIN our dogs to not do such things. We can leave for any amount of
time and no matter what we have put in there....remains untouched.

PetsMart Pet Trainer

BTW....I don't consider myself a dog trainer....I just have four very kewl dogs
that I love to death and want to do right by them. Even now there is one thing
that I would like to resolve with my 2 yr. old Beagle girl (not really relevant
so I won't mention it at this time). But I would think....if you're training
dogs....these issues are going to come up....and I, personally would be very
dissappointed if my trainer told me to simply...put up the shoes....put up the
trash....don't leave anything appealing on the counter....when I went to them
expecting to learn how to curb these behaviors.

Totally Confused,
Jan

(DogStar716) wrote:
For behavior problems like trash raiding, chewing up shoes, digging in the
yard, I'd rather just prevent the behavior than have the stress of trying to
teach the dog not to dig in the open accessible trash can while I am gone.

I agree with you. I tell my students that there are times they're going to
have to pick their battles. If it really bothers somebody to put the trash
or
shoes up while they're gone, then by all means they can attempt training.
But
training something remotely is, to me, much more of a p.i.t.a. than simply
putting things out of reach.

I'm sorry, I may be a bit confused here....but aren't you two "dog trainers"?
Why on earth would you two be "putting things out of your dogs reach" instead
of TRAINING them that it is not acceptable not to do such things?

Quick fix? Easy way out? If I'm going to "pay" someone to help me train my
dogs...then I want to know "how to do it" not....eliminate the temptation...so
that will be the end of it?


I gave up on it after I put pots and pans on the kitchen counters to keep
MacKenzie from counter-surfing in my absence. I came home to find all the
pots
and pans on the floor, along with the remains of everything else that was up
there.

So I just stopped leaving anything edible on the counters. Once there wasn't
anything tempting up there, she broke her habit. Now she never gets up
there.

How do you know the temptation is still not really there...that she really
"broke her habit."? Have you left a fresh baked pie, biscuits, or muffins there
lately? I think not because of your earlier statements.


I just put the trash behind closed doors. Kenzie and Murphy will still get
into that (though, amazingly enough, Madigan won't).

I have had trash divers before. Never did I "put up the trash" while we were
out. We TRAIN our dogs to not do such things. We can leave for any amount of
time and no matter what we have put in there....remains untouched.

PetsMart Pet Trainer

BTW....I don't consider myself a dog trainer....I just have four very kewl dogs
that I love to death and want to do right by them. Even now there is one thing
that I would like to resolve with my 2 yr. old Beagle girl (not really relevant
so I won't mention it at this time). But I would think....if you're training
dogs....these issues are going to come up....and I, personally would be very
dissappointed if my trainer told me to simply...put up the shoes....put up the
trash....don't leave anything appealing on the counter....when I went to them
expecting to learn how to curb these behaviors.

Totally Confused,
Jan

(Jag795) wrote:
I, personally would be very
dissappointed if my trainer told me to simply...put up the shoes....put up
the
trash....don't leave anything appealing on the counter....when I went to them
expecting to learn how to curb these behaviors.

If my client base ever changes, I'll change my methodology. But right now I
have students who pick and choose what to train their dog to do, because they
have time and family constraints that are higher priority to them. They don't
follow up on their training after the 8 weeks, for the most part (there are
some wonderful exceptions). They're satisfied with what they got.

I give them the option. I tell them that there are ways to train remotely, by
using set-up aversives, but that the quickest, easiest solution is to put stuff
away. They have, without exception, chosen the "quick, easy way." Just as
most of these people are satisfied with a GL or prong, and don't even attempt
to train on walks.

So, according to their desires and needs, we work on the behaviors that *can't*
be managed. Like jumping up on people. My students are pretty successful at
this one for the most part, because the owners are serious about it. And they
usually also focus on sit, down, and come.

But that's it. Most of my students don't even practice "leave it" or "drop
it." Sigh.

I ran into an ex-grad's owner today who told me her (now) adolescent isn't
doing ANYTHING any more. She knows why - her room-mate reinforces all her bad
behaviors, and she no longer works with her. But I guess it's not important to
her that her over-hyper, hard to focus dog is uncontrollable. It's not worth
the work it would take to fix it.

I find that a lot. People realize that they have to do some work at home with
the dogs, and they give up.

PetsMart Pet Trainer
My Kids, My Students, My Life:
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/m...age/index.html
Last updated June 27 at 10:00 a.m.

(Jag795) wrote:
I, personally would be very
dissappointed if my trainer told me to simply...put up the shoes....put up
the
trash....don't leave anything appealing on the counter....when I went to them
expecting to learn how to curb these behaviors.

If my client base ever changes, I'll change my methodology. But right now I
have students who pick and choose what to train their dog to do, because they
have time and family constraints that are higher priority to them. They don't
follow up on their training after the 8 weeks, for the most part (there are
some wonderful exceptions). They're satisfied with what they got.

I give them the option. I tell them that there are ways to train remotely, by
using set-up aversives, but that the quickest, easiest solution is to put stuff
away. They have, without exception, chosen the "quick, easy way." Just as
most of these people are satisfied with a GL or prong, and don't even attempt
to train on walks.

So, according to their desires and needs, we work on the behaviors that *can't*
be managed. Like jumping up on people. My students are pretty successful at
this one for the most part, because the owners are serious about it. And they
usually also focus on sit, down, and come.

But that's it. Most of my students don't even practice "leave it" or "drop
it." Sigh.

I ran into an ex-grad's owner today who told me her (now) adolescent isn't
doing ANYTHING any more. She knows why - her room-mate reinforces all her bad
behaviors, and she no longer works with her. But I guess it's not important to
her that her over-hyper, hard to focus dog is uncontrollable. It's not worth
the work it would take to fix it.

I find that a lot. People realize that they have to do some work at home with
the dogs, and they give up.

PetsMart Pet Trainer
My Kids, My Students, My Life:
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/m...age/index.html
Last updated June 27 at 10:00 a.m.

Jag795 said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

Why on earth would you two be "putting things out of your
dogs reach" instead of TRAINING them that it is not
acceptable not to do such things?

There are some situations I'd rather manage than train, mostly
because I can't visualize a training solution to the problem or
because the appropriate training solution is impractible.

For example, the counter surfer. Rocky is a die hard eater and
would probably eat himself to death if given the chance. Not
only has he always loved to eat, but he's also on drugs which
have the side effect of increasing his appetite.

The 2 major items he's eaten from the counter while I've been
away a 4 pounds of apples and half of a 5 pound bag of
kibble.

This is a self-rewarding behaviour. I'd love to learn a way
that I can reliably keep my bag of apples on the counter, not
only for the safekeeping of my apples, but for the safety of my
dogs. Of course, I want 100% reliability. So, I'll either
crate Rocky all day or put my apples in a cupboard. Both are
pretty close to 100%, though one is preferable.

I might be missing something, but I don't understand the mindset
that disparages managing some situations.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Jag795 said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

Why on earth would you two be "putting things out of your
dogs reach" instead of TRAINING them that it is not
acceptable not to do such things?

There are some situations I'd rather manage than train, mostly
because I can't visualize a training solution to the problem or
because the appropriate training solution is impractible.

For example, the counter surfer. Rocky is a die hard eater and
would probably eat himself to death if given the chance. Not
only has he always loved to eat, but he's also on drugs which
have the side effect of increasing his appetite.

The 2 major items he's eaten from the counter while I've been
away a 4 pounds of apples and half of a 5 pound bag of
kibble.

This is a self-rewarding behaviour. I'd love to learn a way
that I can reliably keep my bag of apples on the counter, not
only for the safekeeping of my apples, but for the safety of my
dogs. Of course, I want 100% reliability. So, I'll either
crate Rocky all day or put my apples in a cupboard. Both are
pretty close to 100%, though one is preferable.

I might be missing something, but I don't understand the mindset
that disparages managing some situations.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

I'm sorry, I may be a bit confused here....but aren't you two "dog trainers"?
Why on earth would you two be "putting things out of your dogs reach" instead
of TRAINING them that it is not acceptable not to do such things?

Because I like my shoes? Because there may be something in the trash that is
dangerous to my dogs? Because a dog is NOT a human being in fur skin and they
are not robots?

Why set my dog up to fail? Why get pissed off when I come home and there are
my shoes chewed up, even though "i taught my dog not to chew them". How do I
tell my bad dog that he is wrong for chewing up those shoes and will now be
punished?

As Leah said, you pick your battles.

Dogstar716
Come see Gunnars Life: http://hometown.aol.com/dogstar716/index.html

I'm sorry, I may be a bit confused here....but aren't you two "dog trainers"?
Why on earth would you two be "putting things out of your dogs reach" instead
of TRAINING them that it is not acceptable not to do such things?

Because I like my shoes? Because there may be something in the trash that is
dangerous to my dogs? Because a dog is NOT a human being in fur skin and they
are not robots?

Why set my dog up to fail? Why get pissed off when I come home and there are
my shoes chewed up, even though "i taught my dog not to chew them". How do I
tell my bad dog that he is wrong for chewing up those shoes and will now be
punished?

As Leah said, you pick your battles.

Dogstar716
Come see Gunnars Life: http://hometown.aol.com/dogstar716/index.html

If my client base ever changes, I'll change my methodology.

Why?

And why even work at Petsmart if you don't believe in the type training? You
know it's not Petsmarts own training methodology...

Dogstar716
Come see Gunnars Life: http://hometown.aol.com/dogstar716/index.html