Seeing this post Macy's Parade dog show, it reminds me that there's
something very strange about the psychology of dog/cat show people.
The control-freakism of fixation on the physical form, stance and
movement of an animal.

They seem to be first cousins to the people who gussie up their
5-year-olds like hookers for child beauty pageants. I suspect in many
cases they probably ARE the same people.

I dated a girl for a while who raised Great Danes. She took me to a
dog show one time, where I noted some of the pettiest cattiness and
bad sportsmanship I've ever seen. Funny seeing these predominantly
Dr./Lawyer types having a tantrum when their coifed little Purina
converter didn't place the way they felt it deserved.

So what do they do when one of these long haired breeds has to take a
dump? There's no way processed Dog Chow isn't going to get tangled up
in the all the hair. Does mommy hold their butt locks out of the way?

"Alton" wrote
Seeing this post Macy's Parade dog show, it reminds me that there's
something very strange about the psychology of dog/cat show people.
The control-freakism of fixation on the physical form, stance and
movement of an animal.

They seem to be first cousins to the people who gussie up their
5-year-olds like hookers for child beauty pageants. I suspect in
many
cases they probably ARE the same people.

I dated a girl for a while who raised Great Danes. She took me to a
dog show one time, where I noted some of the pettiest cattiness and
bad sportsmanship I've ever seen. Funny seeing these predominantly
Dr./Lawyer types having a tantrum when their coifed little Purina
converter didn't place the way they felt it deserved.

So what do they do when one of these long haired breeds has to take
a
dump? There's no way processed Dog Chow isn't going to get tangled
up
in the all the hair. Does mommy hold their butt locks out of the
way?

It's not dog show people that bother me. Some are like the stereotype
you describe, and others are quite nice. It's the DOGS at typical
AKC-type conformation shows that bother me. They don't behave like
dogs. It's as if they are all on Valium. It's not like they're just
being obedient. There is a dullness to the eyes, a disinterest in
everything around them.

Whenever I have taken any of my dogs to see one of these shows, my dog
starts out excited about all the dogs. Then, as she is ignored by
them, and she observes/sniffs/talks with them, she'll get upset, the
tail goes down, and she tries to drag me out of the show. Spooky dogs
bother her.

David
www.geocities.com/sammiesdad/dogs.html

You're both right and both wrong.

First, unentered dogs should not be at the show. Period. We have to
sign a statement in the entry process verifying that our dogs'
immunizations are up to date... and although I feel sure that your dogs
shots are up to date.... there are others.... We can be required to
show proof of this... for instance, the rabies certificate signed by the
vet... Most indoor sites, and some outdoor sites are quite crowded;
additional, possibly untrained, dogs are a potential problem. If our
dogs attack others or threaten someone, they can be outta the sport.

"Valium".... Hm, if we get caught drugging dogs to change behavior while
at a show site, we're out....

Dogs that appear to be disconnected.... Not. They are like athletes
preparing to perform... concentrating on their manners and getting
psyched up to go in and show off

While many of these dogs don't take part in other canine sports, most
are house pets first (unless out with professional handlers) and show
dogs second. Two weekends ago there were terrier/dachshund Earthdog
tests within a short drive of a dog show. A good number of the show
dogs participated in both on the same day. Earthdog is an underground
sport.... nt illicit, but under the surface of the ground... low down
and dirty. Many of the show dogs go on to participate in other canine
sports once they end a show career, or participate in performance events
on other weekends. Did you know that Standard Poodles (coats trimmed
down) participate in retriever field trials and hunting tests?

I think if you knew what was going on better than you do now, your
perspective would change somewhat. If a dog is not of correct structure
and doesn't have a correct coat and other features, it can't perform
it's job properly; the judges at a dog show are simply evaluating these
dog's physical features.

The people who particpate in dog shows are no different than people who
participate in other sports without dogs. Just listen the next time you
attend some event.... especially kids' sports, where the parents are the
worst behaved of those present. We can be shut out of the show or the
sport for showing poor sportsmanship.

You have only seen the surface.... grin

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia

"Jo Wolf" wrote
You're both right and both wrong.

First, unentered dogs should not be at the show. Period. We have
to
sign a statement in the entry process verifying that our dogs'
immunizations are up to date... and although I feel sure that your
dogs
shots are up to date.... there are others.... We can be required to
show proof of this... for instance, the rabies certificate signed by
the
vet... Most indoor sites, and some outdoor sites are quite crowded;
additional, possibly untrained, dogs are a potential problem. If
our
dogs attack others or threaten someone, they can be outta the sport.

Most of the AKC shows I've been to were outdoor events, and no one
ever questioned me about Sheba, my Staffie. But she looks like a show
dog. I don't bring Starr, the Pit Bull or Snuggles, the American
Bulldog. Starr would never understand why the dogs don't want to play
with her, and Snuggles is NOT GOOD with stranger dogs, as in she'll
look for the biggest dog she can find and start a fight.

"Valium".... Hm, if we get caught drugging dogs to change behavior
while
at a show site, we're out....

You're kidding, right? You think doping could not occur without being
discovered? How, exactly, are they going to catch you?

Dogs that appear to be disconnected.... Not. They are like athletes
preparing to perform... concentrating on their manners and getting
psyched up to go in and show off

I'm sorry, I'm sure you like to believe this quaint anthropomorphic
fantasy, but this is total bull feces. Your dog is not preparing to do
anything. It's going to do what it has been well-trained to do, and
will most likely enjoy doing it, but it is not psyching itself up or
any other human characteristic. It's just being a dog, thinking like a
dog, and attributing anything else to it is an insult to the dog. If a
dog was a little person in a fur coat, it would be a hideously ugly,
profoundly retarded person. It's greatness is in the fact that it is a
dog.

While many of these dogs don't take part in other canine sports,
most
are house pets first (unless out with professional handlers) and
show
dogs second. Two weekends ago there were terrier/dachshund Earthdog
tests within a short drive of a dog show. A good number of the show
dogs participated in both on the same day. Earthdog is an
underground
sport.... nt illicit, but under the surface of the ground... low
down
and dirty. Many of the show dogs go on to participate in other
canine
sports once they end a show career, or participate in performance
events
on other weekends. Did you know that Standard Poodles (coats
trimmed
down) participate in retriever field trials and hunting tests?

And none of that explains the zombie-like behavior of these dogs at
conformation shows. If anything, it adds weight to the drugged theory
(which I don't actually believe is happening a lot, just what it looks
like).

I think if you knew what was going on better than you do now, your
perspective would change somewhat. If a dog is not of correct
structure
and doesn't have a correct coat and other features, it can't perform
it's job properly; the judges at a dog show are simply evaluating
these
dog's physical features.

Do you seriously believe that conformation standards, and the dogs
that eventually result from years of selective breeding to meet those
standards, has ANYTHING to do with actual work the dog is supposed to
perform? Top show dogs that can perform at their job at any reasonable
level of ability are wonderful and exceptional.

The people who particpate in dog shows are no different than people
who
participate in other sports without dogs. Just listen the next time
you
attend some event.... especially kids' sports, where the parents are
the
worst behaved of those present. We can be shut out of the show or
the
sport for showing poor sportsmanship.

You have only seen the surface.... grin

Hey, I saw the movie "Best In Show". That was a documentary, right

David
www.geocities.com/sammiesdad/dogs.html

Seeing this post Macy's Parade dog show, it reminds me that there's
something very strange about the psychology of dog/cat show people.
The control-freakism of fixation on the physical form, stance and
movement of an animal.

I wouldn't call it control freakism. It's breeding for proper type and
movement. A dog that doesn't move properly will break down orthopedically
later in life, especially if the dog is used for it's breed's original
purpose (hunting, herding, guarding, etc.)


They seem to be first cousins to the people who gussie up their
5-year-olds like hookers for child beauty pageants. I suspect in many
cases they probably ARE the same people.

Depends on the breed and the breeder. I can guarantee you that I spend less
than 10 minutes prepping my dogs to go in the ring (obedience OR
conformation) unless they've made a mess of themselves or another dog has
done that for me. It's not unheard of for males to mark occupied crates.
If a Lab can't be shown naturally, it shouldn't be shown.


I dated a girl for a while who raised Great Danes. She took me to a
dog show one time, where I noted some of the pettiest cattiness and
bad sportsmanship I've ever seen. Funny seeing these predominantly
Dr./Lawyer types having a tantrum when their coifed little Purina
converter didn't place the way they felt it deserved.

Yep. It's kinda funny. But when was the last time you heard of a parent
being fined $500 for yelling at the judge, AND having ALL their children
kicked out of the sport for 3 months (or more) or until they paid the fine?


So what do they do when one of these long haired breeds has to take a
dump? There's no way processed Dog Chow isn't going to get tangled up
in the all the hair. Does mommy hold their butt locks out of the way?

Most show people carefully time when they feed their dogs to keep them from
having to do so. But most breeds really don't make a mess of themselves
when they "go." A dog like that would be a PITA to live with.

--
Emily Carroll
Dealing 80s Toys - Rainbow Brite - My Little Pony - More
Fluttervale Labradors: www.geocities.com/diamonds_in_her_eyes/dogs/
CPG: www.geocities.com/cyberpetgame/
4-H Club: www.geocities.com/woofsandwiggles/


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Most of the AKC shows I've been to were outdoor events, and no one
ever questioned me about Sheba, my Staffie. But she looks like a show
dog.

Most shows I've attended have required me to show proof of all dogs in my
vehicle being entered.

You're kidding, right? You think doping could not occur without being
discovered? How, exactly, are they going to catch you?

Well, if I suspected, say, you, of doping your dog, all I would have to do
was complain to the show committee and they'd hold a bench hearing which
could be discontinued until further proof.

I'm sorry, I'm sure you like to believe this quaint anthropomorphic
fantasy, but this is total bull feces. Your dog is not preparing to do
anything. It's going to do what it has been well-trained to do,


And none of that explains the zombie-like behavior of these dogs at
conformation shows. If anything, it adds weight to the drugged theory
(which I don't actually believe is happening a lot, just what it looks
like).

I think the "well trained" theory works a bit better than the drugged
theory.

The show dogs I know privately are most definitely *not* zombies, just
well-trained dogs that can relax outside of the show setting and be
goofballs. Some dogs will cue off their handler's or owner's nervousness
and spend a lot of time staring at their owner.

Do you seriously believe that conformation standards, and the dogs
that eventually result from years of selective breeding to meet those
standards, has ANYTHING to do with actual work the dog is supposed to
perform? Top show dogs that can perform at their job at any reasonable
level of ability are wonderful and exceptional.

A dog that is not built to run 20 miles in a day is not going to be able to
perform as a pointer/setter. A show dog is *built* to perform as perfectly
as possible. Whether the brains and owner initiative are included is
another question.

Hey, I saw the movie "Best In Show". That was a documentary, right

Depends on who you talk to I've met people that more than exemplify the
characters in that movie. But most of the people are no wierder than anyone
in any other given sport.

~Emily


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A show dog is *built* to perform as perfectly
as possible.

And in many cases, what performs perfectly in the show ring does NOT
"perform perfectly" in real life, even less at what the dog was originally
created for.

Pretty show ring gaits often have no real relation to the gait that serves
well in the field.

"Alton" wrote in message
om...
Seeing this post Macy's Parade dog show, it reminds me that there's
something very strange about the psychology of dog/cat show people.
The control-freakism of fixation on the physical form, stance and
movement of an animal.

They seem to be first cousins to the people who gussie up their
5-year-olds like hookers for child beauty pageants. I suspect in many
cases they probably ARE the same people.

I dated a girl for a while who raised Great Danes. She took me to a
dog show one time, where I noted some of the pettiest cattiness and
bad sportsmanship I've ever seen. Funny seeing these predominantly
Dr./Lawyer types having a tantrum when their coifed little Purina
converter didn't place the way they felt it deserved.


some dog show people are assholes, yes but they are fewer and further in
between than the nice dog show people.

So what do they do when one of these long haired breeds has to take a
dump? There's no way processed Dog Chow isn't going to get tangled up
in the all the hair. Does mommy hold their butt locks out of the way?

LOL, I am reminded of tok's conformation debut. He got the shits right
before he had to go in the ring. We had to wipe his booty off and I used a
piece of paper to fix it. Stupidly, I used the armband to do it. LOL,
that was just classic.

We made a new armband out of one in the trash and wrote the number on it and
laughed our asses off later.

"David Cohen" wrote in message

If you're done ranting now...nothing above has anything to do with my
observation. I was obviously not talking about the dogs in the ring. I
would expect them to behave as trained. It's the dogs outside the
ring, waiting for their turn, or just being walked a bit, or whatever,
that are, many of them, zombie-like. Would you care to address that,
or is another rant in the offing?

David
www.geocities.com/sammiesdad/dogs.html



David
You came into a "discussion" group and that is what we do here. We seek to
help, educate, put to rights misconceptions etc. If you don't wish to hear
the truth, then I suggest you try to peddle your thoughts elsewhere.
I read over your post and was unable to find where you stated that you were
speaking of dogs only "outside" the ring. As far as I could discern you were
speaking of dogs at dog shows in general.
I also must have missed all your "zombie" like dogs you speak of. Maybe I'll
spot one after I have a few more years of showing under my belt.
EGD

Quoth "EGD" on Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:59:53 GMT,

I also must have missed all your "zombie" like dogs you speak of. Maybe I'll
spot one after I have a few more years of showing under my belt.

In the ring or out, I can't recall seeing lots of "dull eyed" "zombie"
dogs. And I've never seen a judge fool enough to place a dog of such
description! I think, if there even is more to this than stirring things
up, that it is a matter of the observer and not the observed.
-----------------------------------------
Only know that there is no spork.