"Melanie L Chang" wrote in message
...



: I need a good front for my dog to land on. I"ve yet to hear a
: 'working' BC breeder talk about improving fronts on their lines.
: {Doesn't mean they don't, just that I haven't heard it.} Only work,
: work, work. Which is fine for herding, I guess, shrug but it won't
: work for me. I need a strong front assembly. {Among other things, but
: it's simpler to just discuss fronts.}

Then why do you need a Border Collie, if your requirements are really
that generic? And if all you need is a good front assembly, isn't it
possible to evaluate the sire and dam and pup in this respect from a
well-bred working litter?

That doesn't address the point. The point is that there are few to no
herding-only breeders that *I* know of who are breeding for sound anything.
And I happen to know a rather alarming number of dogs from working stock,
import bloodlines, actually doing herding, etc. who have serious
conformational and health issues. Epilepsy, bad temperaments, and a truly
astounding number of orthopedic problems--hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia,
OCD, knee problems--you name it. All from people who are in the McCaig camp
of "we don't need to test for anything because our working bred dogs
couldn't work if they had problems." Um, no, not exactly...

: Well, no. Bring up American Show Shepherds, and I tend to get a little
: red in the face, but those dogs don't really work.

Right. Agility isn't work either. It's a game.


Like herding trials aren't a game??? Give me a break. Unless you own a
big-ass bunch of sheep, make your living off sheep, and use your dogs to
work said sheep, then herding competitions are a game. Sure, it's a
different game and it's a bigger game--but it's still a game. I agree with
you that herding and agility require different skill sets. But before you
start totally dismissing agility, perhaps you should try trialling at a
higher level than you currently do. I've been training dogs for a long time,
and I've realized that agility is probably the most difficult thing I've
ever trained. Looks easy, IS rather easy at the lower levels, is incredibly
difficult if you want to have a top dog.


The vast majority of dog owners only want something that is cuddly and
easy to housebreak and won't shed too much. Do we really have to be
governed only by the lowest or most common denominator? This is another
red herring. Is there a reason why you think working Border Collies are
not selected for the qualities described above? A well-bred working dog
is selected far more rigorously for these qualities than a generic sport
dog would be.

Are they? I see lots of very poor temperaments in working/herding bred BCs,
mostly completely spooky to downright people and dog aggressive.

I actually agree with you Melanie that herding ability shouldn't be lost.
But I also agree with Deb. I don't see agility as the curse of the working
BC. I see barbie collies as the curse of the working BC, but not agility.