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How to improve meeting skills?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 2nd 03, 03:28 AM
Tara O.
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Default How to improve meeting skills?

Does anyone have any tried & true advice on how to improve a dog's meeting
skills with other dogs? The dogs are all adults, all rescues and only react
to strange dogs. I see this alot with the Boxers and outside of just
telling people "this is how he/she is at first, just give the dog a few
minutes" I'm not sure what else to do.

My female Fancy has atrocious meeting skills. She presents an aggressive
front to any strange dog she meets either on-leash or off. She is better
off-leash but she still acts aggressively. The best way to describe it is
that she's both inviting the other dog to scrap with her and saying she's
ready at the same time. She means it to an extent as she will defend
herself in a heartbeat but she doesn't really want to fight if that makes
sense. Her actions produce the expected reaction from most other dogs
though and who can blame them?

A female I have here now is the same. She is 100% submissive with other
dogs of both genders and all sizes. She allows them to mount her, get rough
with her, eat her food, take her chewies and so on. The thing is, you'd
never know that about her if you watched her encounter a strange dog. When
she was brought to my house, Ely (a male foster pup) ran out the door to
greet her and she pounded him into the ground, held him there and bared her
teeth. He was non-threatening in every way as his body language (wiggling a
mile a minute) left nothing to wonder about. However, here is a dog (albeit
a smaller one) running up to you so why not pound first and question later?
When introduced to the Min. Dachshund, Mary lunged and snapped. My foot,
harshly side-swiping Pebbles out of the way, was all that saved her from a
broken neck (good thing I didn't do damage with my reaction).

Now imagine me having to introduce Fancy and Mary. I had no help so I
waited a while and crated Mary to let her decompress some. Finally I got
tired of playing musical crates and wondering so I crated Ely & Pebbles, let
Fancy into the backyard then got Mary and took her out there...leashes
hanging loose on both girls. I walked to the water hose, turned it on and
waited thinking I'd need to hose them down to break up a fight but I wanted
it done with and out of the way so we could move on (the dogs are generally
tolerant of each other after the initial spat..sometimes it takes two or
three spats). Alot of posturing, paw to the shoulder or side, hackles
raised, growling and circling went on but after 5 minutes all was fine
because neither girl took the other's bait. Mary also cannot be taken into
a vet's office waiting room or Petsmart.

This all happened over a month ago and Mary, Fancy, Ely & Pebbles are great
friends (well Pebbles is a snob, she tolerates the big dogs) but it makes me
wonder if there's a way to improve the meeting skills of dogs like this.
Mary is being adopted by my sister in 2 weeks (she already adopted Hunter)
and rather than being able to meet her halfway, I'm having to drive 6 hours
because I know what will happen at a roadside meeting and I can't imagine
being able to convince my sister that Mary will be fine on the way home.
She'll be fine after she's allowed off-leash with Hunter in their backyard
and I am there to supervise the introduction but its times like this where I
wish there was a trick to getting dogs like her to be friendly towards
strangers.

These two girls are only examples of a good portion of the Boxers we get in
rescue. They are *not* dog aggressive but act that way when meeting strange
dogs for the first time. Its a fear reaction that I have no idea where it
comes from. Some dogs are only like this on-leash while others are like
this regardless. It doesn't bother me (actually I am surprised when two
Boxers don't react this way to each other since its such a common sight to
see) but it can put a damper on adoption meetings and can also make
prospective adopters wary of adopting a dog like this because they want to
be able to take the dog places.

--
Tara



  #2  
Old September 6th 03, 03:20 PM
shelly
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On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 15:17:10 -0400, "Tara O."
wrote:

This does work for alot of dogs but not these particular types of dogs.
There is no lull before the storm so to speak. If they are close enough to
the other dog for even a second, they react with a lunge and/or snap. If
another dog comes within say 10' then the are dead still and staring,
waiting for the dog to get within striking distance.


yep. hard eyes and stiff stance. it's as if they're waiting for the
other dog to offer an offense so that they can put the smack-down on
them for it.

There's no opportunity to even try first and then back up.


exactly, and it's frustrating.

last time i had harriet at the vet, there was a Dobe bitch in the
waiting room that, for whatever reason, *really* pissed harriet off.
she was fine with the Pit Bull bitch who was barking her fool head off,
but the Dobe just offended harriet. it was crowded and her owner was
sitting next to me, so our dogs were stuck close together. harriet
wasn't thrilled with that, but behaved herself until the Dobe leaned
over to sniff her. as soon as she invaded harriet's comfort zone,
harriet snarled at her. after that, every time the other dog moved,
harriet growled. what sucks is that once she's focused like that on
another dog, it's nearly impossible to get her to forget about it. even
after the Dobe owner and i were able to move away from each other, and
harriet was busy schmoozing with a couple other people sitting near me,
she had one eye on the Dobe.

Honestly, the only
thing that I've found that works is to just let them off-leash together.


you too? that's been the *only* way to get harriet to acclimate to
other dogs.

Actually I think I could probably say that neutrality is worse.
Better to have the aggressive-acting dog on the other dog's turf where it
knows its the stranger than to be neutral. Don't know if it'll make sense
but its been an observation. Neutrality, or their own "turf", seems to give
these dogs the upper hand.


that's been my experience, as well.

i've got no advice to offer. my experience has been very similar to
yours, though. it seems like it's just a weird Boxer thing.

--
shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott & harriet
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette

It's very important for folks to understand that when there's more
trade, there's more commerce.
-- George W. Bush, Quebec City 4/21/2001
  #3  
Old September 6th 03, 03:20 PM
shelly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 15:17:10 -0400, "Tara O."
wrote:

This does work for alot of dogs but not these particular types of dogs.
There is no lull before the storm so to speak. If they are close enough to
the other dog for even a second, they react with a lunge and/or snap. If
another dog comes within say 10' then the are dead still and staring,
waiting for the dog to get within striking distance.


yep. hard eyes and stiff stance. it's as if they're waiting for the
other dog to offer an offense so that they can put the smack-down on
them for it.

There's no opportunity to even try first and then back up.


exactly, and it's frustrating.

last time i had harriet at the vet, there was a Dobe bitch in the
waiting room that, for whatever reason, *really* pissed harriet off.
she was fine with the Pit Bull bitch who was barking her fool head off,
but the Dobe just offended harriet. it was crowded and her owner was
sitting next to me, so our dogs were stuck close together. harriet
wasn't thrilled with that, but behaved herself until the Dobe leaned
over to sniff her. as soon as she invaded harriet's comfort zone,
harriet snarled at her. after that, every time the other dog moved,
harriet growled. what sucks is that once she's focused like that on
another dog, it's nearly impossible to get her to forget about it. even
after the Dobe owner and i were able to move away from each other, and
harriet was busy schmoozing with a couple other people sitting near me,
she had one eye on the Dobe.

Honestly, the only
thing that I've found that works is to just let them off-leash together.


you too? that's been the *only* way to get harriet to acclimate to
other dogs.

Actually I think I could probably say that neutrality is worse.
Better to have the aggressive-acting dog on the other dog's turf where it
knows its the stranger than to be neutral. Don't know if it'll make sense
but its been an observation. Neutrality, or their own "turf", seems to give
these dogs the upper hand.


that's been my experience, as well.

i've got no advice to offer. my experience has been very similar to
yours, though. it seems like it's just a weird Boxer thing.

--
shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott & harriet
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette

It's very important for folks to understand that when there's more
trade, there's more commerce.
-- George W. Bush, Quebec City 4/21/2001
  #4  
Old September 6th 03, 03:20 PM
shelly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 16:01:36 -0400, sighthounds etc.
wrote:

What is usually going on during the 5 minutes of 'getting to know you'
time? Has there ever been any damage done? I have absolutely no
experience with of Boxers or bully breeds. John Richardson might be
able to give you some pointers though - - he's very experienced with
bully breeds and has a fairly large pack of his own, so he must have
done the introduction thing many, many times. I saw a post of his the
other day. Ping him in .rescue and maybe he can help.


it starts out much like a common Pit Bull reaction (hard eyes and stiff
stance, ususally with nub up and moving slowly). it's different,
though, in that it normally happens on-lead. it's also not of the same
intensity or duration as typical Pit Bull aggression. my interpretation
is that the Boxer isn't interested in fighting so much as establishing
boundaries. they're just seem to be lacking the proper canine
communication skills to do this as smoothly as most dogs do.

--
shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott & harriet
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette

I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and
what I believe--I believe what I believe is right.
-- George W. Bush, Rome 7/22/2001
  #5  
Old September 6th 03, 03:20 PM
shelly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 16:01:36 -0400, sighthounds etc.
wrote:

What is usually going on during the 5 minutes of 'getting to know you'
time? Has there ever been any damage done? I have absolutely no
experience with of Boxers or bully breeds. John Richardson might be
able to give you some pointers though - - he's very experienced with
bully breeds and has a fairly large pack of his own, so he must have
done the introduction thing many, many times. I saw a post of his the
other day. Ping him in .rescue and maybe he can help.


it starts out much like a common Pit Bull reaction (hard eyes and stiff
stance, ususally with nub up and moving slowly). it's different,
though, in that it normally happens on-lead. it's also not of the same
intensity or duration as typical Pit Bull aggression. my interpretation
is that the Boxer isn't interested in fighting so much as establishing
boundaries. they're just seem to be lacking the proper canine
communication skills to do this as smoothly as most dogs do.

--
shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott & harriet
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette

I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and
what I believe--I believe what I believe is right.
-- George W. Bush, Rome 7/22/2001
  #6  
Old September 6th 03, 03:29 PM
Dimpled Chad
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 01 Sep 2003, Tara O. opined:

Does anyone have any tried & true advice on how to improve a dog's meeting
skills with other dogs?


Tara, did you ever get any replies with this. I often get asked this question
on my walks by people with newly adopted dogs....

Thanks,
Chad

--
Looking for a pet? Adopt one! ** http://www.petfinder.com
Info for a healthy, happy dog? * http://www.dog-play.com


Asking if computers can think is like asking if
submarines can swim.





  #7  
Old September 6th 03, 03:29 PM
Dimpled Chad
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 01 Sep 2003, Tara O. opined:

Does anyone have any tried & true advice on how to improve a dog's meeting
skills with other dogs?


Tara, did you ever get any replies with this. I often get asked this question
on my walks by people with newly adopted dogs....

Thanks,
Chad

--
Looking for a pet? Adopt one! ** http://www.petfinder.com
Info for a healthy, happy dog? * http://www.dog-play.com


Asking if computers can think is like asking if
submarines can swim.





  #10  
Old September 6th 03, 05:52 PM
Tara O.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Dimpled Chad" wrote in message
...
On 01 Sep 2003, Tara O. opined:

Does anyone have any tried & true advice on how to improve a dog's

meeting
skills with other dogs?


Tara, did you ever get any replies with this. I often get asked this

question
on my walks by people with newly adopted dogs....

Thanks,
Chad


Nope, not until Paulette but her suggestion won't work for the dogs I'm
talking about. Even with loose leads and the handlers talking to each other
rather than specifically focusing on the dogs, it doesn't help.

--
Tara


 




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