A dog & canine forum. DogBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » DogBanter forum » Dog forums » Dog behavior
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

DDR Machine



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 6th 03, 04:45 PM
Randi Helene Tillung
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default DDR Machine

Hi!
I am new here Can anyone tell me what the DDR Machine is, please?

Randi Helene


  #2  
Old September 6th 03, 05:44 PM
KrisHur
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

A scam.

He claims it solves everything from barking to epilepsy--what trash.

Science proves his claims are false:
http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/doright.html

--
Kristen &
Kali CD, CGC, TDI, TT
http://www.kristenandkali.com



"Randi Helene Tillung" wrote in message
...
Hi!
I am new here Can anyone tell me what the DDR Machine is, please?

Randi Helene




  #3  
Old September 6th 03, 05:44 PM
KrisHur
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

A scam.

He claims it solves everything from barking to epilepsy--what trash.

Science proves his claims are false:
http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/doright.html

--
Kristen &
Kali CD, CGC, TDI, TT
http://www.kristenandkali.com



"Randi Helene Tillung" wrote in message
...
Hi!
I am new here Can anyone tell me what the DDR Machine is, please?

Randi Helene




  #4  
Old September 6th 03, 06:20 PM
&michael
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

you're full of crap. You shock your dog and tell us that it doesn't hurt.

_MLife

KrisHur wrote:

A scam.

He claims it solves everything from barking to epilepsy--what trash.

Science proves his claims are false:
http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/doright.html


  #5  
Old September 6th 03, 06:20 PM
&michael
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

you're full of crap. You shock your dog and tell us that it doesn't hurt.

_MLife

KrisHur wrote:

A scam.

He claims it solves everything from barking to epilepsy--what trash.

Science proves his claims are false:
http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/doright.html


  #6  
Old September 6th 03, 08:15 PM
Charlie Wilkes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 12:44:04 -0400, "KrisHur"
wrote:

A scam.

He claims it solves everything from barking to epilepsy--what trash.

Science proves his claims are false:
http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/doright.html


This is not "science" as I know of it. But I'm not a scientist.
Maybe a scientist would like to comment on the link above. Does it
prove anything?

Charlie
  #7  
Old September 6th 03, 08:15 PM
Charlie Wilkes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 12:44:04 -0400, "KrisHur"
wrote:

A scam.

He claims it solves everything from barking to epilepsy--what trash.

Science proves his claims are false:
http://www.wirebird.com/bordercollie/doright.html


This is not "science" as I know of it. But I'm not a scientist.
Maybe a scientist would like to comment on the link above. Does it
prove anything?

Charlie
  #8  
Old September 7th 03, 02:51 AM
Lynn K.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Charlie Wilkes wrote in message . ..
More a priori science. Rocks can't fall from the sky, right?


In all fairness, Charlie, those calculations are easily verified, and
have been re-checked independently. I believe it's a very valid
argument against the claims of how the device works physically.
That's quite different from a scientific test of the claimed results
of the device. But that's what you've been planning to test, isn't
it? It's certainly something that we'd all like to see done. I'm
certainly more interested in verifiable results than the science
behind it and have no doubt that Mr. Howe doesn't really have the
scientific background to present the acoustic information accurately,
so will cut him some slack.

Lynn K.


I have been busy earning my living, but my hope is that I can get back
to the cat shelter next week and continue my preparations for some
genuine research.

Charlie

This is WHY it cannot work:

"After reading the web page for Jerry Howe's "little black box" and
doing a couple of calculations, I have demonstrated that the claims for
"Doggy Do Right" are physically impossible. Specifically, it cannot
possibly be audible to dogs at the ranges claimed.

The essence of the reason is that attenuation of sound traveling through
the air is not uniform for all frequencies, but is strongly
frequency-dependent. The higher the frequency, the more rapid the
attenuation. Basically, the reason for this is that higher frequencies
require more rapid motion of the gas molecules which transport the
sound. More energy is used accelerating the molecules at higher
frequencies, causing more rapid attenuation (loss of signal). The
"Doggy Do Right" is claimed to be ultrasonic, i.e., to work by means of
very high frequency sound.

Interestingly enough, the effect is not so pronounced in the frequency
ranges of typical human speech, music, etc. but can be observed. When
your neighbors, or passing motorists, play their stereos very loudly,
typically you hear only the bass, because the higher-frequency treble is
much weaker at any distance. When I was doing my postdoctoral research
in atmospheric physics at the Naval Research Laboratory in Washington,
DC, I used an acoustic levitator which pumped out many watts of sound at
33 kHz--an ultrasonic frequency, i.e. above the range of human hearing.
I was interested in applying to raise a CCI assistance-dog puppy at that
time, and was concerned about the effect of all of that noise (many,
many times the human pain and damage thresholds, except mercifully
silent to humans). 33 KHz is within the canine hearing range.

To try to shorten a long story, both theory and measurements showed the
sound to be so rapidly attenuated that if the puppy remained by my desk
it would be unable to hear the ultrasonic source 18 feet away.

The equation for sound attenuation as perceived by a measurement device
(or a dog) at some distance r (measured in meters) from a point source,
at room temperature, is

I(source)*exp{-2E-13*(f^3)*r} I(dog) =
------------------------------ 4 * pi * r^2

where r is the distance from the source to the dog; I(source) is the
intensity (power) output at the source; I(dog) is the intensity at the
dog, f is the frequency of the sound, and pi is the numerical constant
pi, approximately 3.14159265.

This information may be found in almost any textbook on acoustics, but
we found it in "Sonics" by TF Hueter and RH Bolt, Wiley and Sons, 1955.

Plugging in the frequency of 33 kHz replicated our measurements almost
exactly.

So what does all of this imply for "Doggy Do Right"? It is claimed to
be "ultrasonic," meaning it must use frequencies above the range of
human hearing. We don't know if it emits a continuous monotone or some
varying pattern of frequencies, but it does not make any difference for
this demonstration. The range of human hearing is generally reported to
be 20-20,000 Hz (20 Hz - 20 kHz). Thus, in order to be "silent to
humans," as is claimed on the "Doggy Do Right" web page, the frequency,
or range of frequencies, used must be 20 kHz or higher.

The greatest possible range would be obtained with the lowest possible
frequency, 20 kHz. Substituting this in for frequency in the equation
given above, we find that at room temperature the range of the device is
far less than the 500 ft claimed on the web site. It is less than 100
feet. I won't give the exact figure here, since it would be too easy
for Jerry Howe to simply adjust his claims to fit these results. Anyone
with a scientific calculator can repeat my calculation. I will mention,
however, that the range is so short that the device's claimed ability to
be heard by a dog across the street would not work in most
neighborhoods, with typical street widths and zoning (set back from
street) ordinances. If the frequency or frequencies used are higher
than 20 kHz, and/or the temperature is lower than "room temperature"
(which to physicists is about 77 Fahrenheit), the range will be even
less.

For the purpose of the range calculation, I assumed that attenuation of
120 dB, or twelve orders of magnitude, would render the device
inaudible. This is the range in power between the human threshold of
hearing (minimum) and threshold of pain (maximum). While some believe
that dogs have a lower threshold of hearing than humans, that only
applies, if at all, within the range of best canine hearing, not at 20
kHz and above.

For anyone who has read this far, my personal favorite line from the
Doggy Do Right web site is, "if you can hear barking dogs, they can hear
Doggy Do Right." My husband John, who has over 90% hearing loss, can
hear our hound Jobe (a.k.a. Ch. Gr. Nite. Ch. WC 'PR' Susquehanna Vally
Jobe) at distances over 2 miles, in the cold of winter. At that range,
at room temperature, the Doggy Do Right would be attenuated over 300
orders of magnitude.

  #9  
Old September 7th 03, 02:51 AM
Lynn K.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Charlie Wilkes wrote in message . ..
More a priori science. Rocks can't fall from the sky, right?


In all fairness, Charlie, those calculations are easily verified, and
have been re-checked independently. I believe it's a very valid
argument against the claims of how the device works physically.
That's quite different from a scientific test of the claimed results
of the device. But that's what you've been planning to test, isn't
it? It's certainly something that we'd all like to see done. I'm
certainly more interested in verifiable results than the science
behind it and have no doubt that Mr. Howe doesn't really have the
scientific background to present the acoustic information accurately,
so will cut him some slack.

Lynn K.


I have been busy earning my living, but my hope is that I can get back
to the cat shelter next week and continue my preparations for some
genuine research.

Charlie

This is WHY it cannot work:

"After reading the web page for Jerry Howe's "little black box" and
doing a couple of calculations, I have demonstrated that the claims for
"Doggy Do Right" are physically impossible. Specifically, it cannot
possibly be audible to dogs at the ranges claimed.

The essence of the reason is that attenuation of sound traveling through
the air is not uniform for all frequencies, but is strongly
frequency-dependent. The higher the frequency, the more rapid the
attenuation. Basically, the reason for this is that higher frequencies
require more rapid motion of the gas molecules which transport the
sound. More energy is used accelerating the molecules at higher
frequencies, causing more rapid attenuation (loss of signal). The
"Doggy Do Right" is claimed to be ultrasonic, i.e., to work by means of
very high frequency sound.

Interestingly enough, the effect is not so pronounced in the frequency
ranges of typical human speech, music, etc. but can be observed. When
your neighbors, or passing motorists, play their stereos very loudly,
typically you hear only the bass, because the higher-frequency treble is
much weaker at any distance. When I was doing my postdoctoral research
in atmospheric physics at the Naval Research Laboratory in Washington,
DC, I used an acoustic levitator which pumped out many watts of sound at
33 kHz--an ultrasonic frequency, i.e. above the range of human hearing.
I was interested in applying to raise a CCI assistance-dog puppy at that
time, and was concerned about the effect of all of that noise (many,
many times the human pain and damage thresholds, except mercifully
silent to humans). 33 KHz is within the canine hearing range.

To try to shorten a long story, both theory and measurements showed the
sound to be so rapidly attenuated that if the puppy remained by my desk
it would be unable to hear the ultrasonic source 18 feet away.

The equation for sound attenuation as perceived by a measurement device
(or a dog) at some distance r (measured in meters) from a point source,
at room temperature, is

I(source)*exp{-2E-13*(f^3)*r} I(dog) =
------------------------------ 4 * pi * r^2

where r is the distance from the source to the dog; I(source) is the
intensity (power) output at the source; I(dog) is the intensity at the
dog, f is the frequency of the sound, and pi is the numerical constant
pi, approximately 3.14159265.

This information may be found in almost any textbook on acoustics, but
we found it in "Sonics" by TF Hueter and RH Bolt, Wiley and Sons, 1955.

Plugging in the frequency of 33 kHz replicated our measurements almost
exactly.

So what does all of this imply for "Doggy Do Right"? It is claimed to
be "ultrasonic," meaning it must use frequencies above the range of
human hearing. We don't know if it emits a continuous monotone or some
varying pattern of frequencies, but it does not make any difference for
this demonstration. The range of human hearing is generally reported to
be 20-20,000 Hz (20 Hz - 20 kHz). Thus, in order to be "silent to
humans," as is claimed on the "Doggy Do Right" web page, the frequency,
or range of frequencies, used must be 20 kHz or higher.

The greatest possible range would be obtained with the lowest possible
frequency, 20 kHz. Substituting this in for frequency in the equation
given above, we find that at room temperature the range of the device is
far less than the 500 ft claimed on the web site. It is less than 100
feet. I won't give the exact figure here, since it would be too easy
for Jerry Howe to simply adjust his claims to fit these results. Anyone
with a scientific calculator can repeat my calculation. I will mention,
however, that the range is so short that the device's claimed ability to
be heard by a dog across the street would not work in most
neighborhoods, with typical street widths and zoning (set back from
street) ordinances. If the frequency or frequencies used are higher
than 20 kHz, and/or the temperature is lower than "room temperature"
(which to physicists is about 77 Fahrenheit), the range will be even
less.

For the purpose of the range calculation, I assumed that attenuation of
120 dB, or twelve orders of magnitude, would render the device
inaudible. This is the range in power between the human threshold of
hearing (minimum) and threshold of pain (maximum). While some believe
that dogs have a lower threshold of hearing than humans, that only
applies, if at all, within the range of best canine hearing, not at 20
kHz and above.

For anyone who has read this far, my personal favorite line from the
Doggy Do Right web site is, "if you can hear barking dogs, they can hear
Doggy Do Right." My husband John, who has over 90% hearing loss, can
hear our hound Jobe (a.k.a. Ch. Gr. Nite. Ch. WC 'PR' Susquehanna Vally
Jobe) at distances over 2 miles, in the cold of winter. At that range,
at room temperature, the Doggy Do Right would be attenuated over 300
orders of magnitude.

  #10  
Old September 7th 03, 04:39 AM
Katra
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Charlie Wilkes wrote:

More a priori science. Rocks can't fall from the sky, right?

I have been busy earning my living, but my hope is that I can get back
to the cat shelter next week and continue my preparations for some
genuine research.

Charlie

On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 18:18:05 GMT, Ed Williams "edwilliams REMOVE
wrote:

Randi Helene Tillung wrote:

Hi!
I am new here Can anyone tell me what the DDR Machine is, please?

Randi Helene


Randi,


The DDR machine cannot work as claimed.
(some of jerrys wacky claims are at the end of this post)

This is WHY it cannot work:

"After reading the web page for Jerry Howe's "little black box" and
doing a couple of calculations, I have demonstrated that the claims for
"Doggy Do Right" are physically impossible. Specifically, it cannot
possibly be audible to dogs at the ranges claimed.


snipped

The whole concept that people seem to be MISSING here is that YOU DON'T
HAVE TO BE ABLE TO HEAR A SOUND FOR IT TO HAVE AN EFFECT!!!

Sub-audible beat frequencies can affect brain waves.

So can strobe lights.

Did you know that strobe lights can also alter brain waves and have been
known to trigger seizures?

http://www.siumed.edu/neuro/epilepsy...eizuresjs.html

I've had some interesting meditational experiences using a sub-audible
beat frequency tape, (I hear nothing) designed to alter brain waves to
the level for astral travel. While I don't know if I have ever actually
accomplished that act, I had some amazing dreams. ;-) Dick Sutphen has
experimented with this concept on humans. There are temper control tapes
out there that also use the same concept. Those worked on me. I am now
more even tempered than I was before using them for a number of months
several years ago.

You don't have to hear it for it to work. The frequency used is
determined by what "state" you want the brain to work in. Alpha waves etc.

Here are some interesting links that I googled:

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neur...klafrance.html
http://healingsounds.com/articles/ne...nd-healing.asp
http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/p/brain_1.htm

K.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Operating a lure coursing machine? Rex Dog activities 1 March 18th 04 08:44 AM
Teaching "no jump" on strangers Michelle V. Dog behavior 19 July 28th 03 02:53 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0 (Unauthorized Upgrade)
Copyright ©2004-2024 DogBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.