"Jonathan" wrote:
"the trainer said that I had to intimidate my dog" or ".. my dog had to fear
me more than he desired to chase a rabbit" etc.

Has anyone ever actually heard an approved trainer talk like that in the
States?

Heard of it, and worse. Sometimes from trainers, sometimes from vets.

I tell my students that their dogs want them to be strong leaders, but to
remember that true leadership does NOT involve strong-arm methods. (During the
NILIF talk.)

Two weeks ago, in the first class, I noticed that Miss Sassy would cringe and
rapidly blink her eyes when she received a verbal correction. I said to her
young, well-meaning owner, "And you're going to stop slapping Sassy in the
head, right?"

"I thought I was supposed to hit her," she said, meekly.

"I know. A lot of people think that, because that's how they were advised by
other people. But now you know a better way to communicate with her."

This last class, I tested Sassy. No cringe/blink reflex. Not only that, but
her owners (daughter & mom) were having an easier time focusing her.

PetsMart Pet Trainer
My Kids, My Students, My Life:
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/m...age/index.html
Last updated June 27 at 10:00 a.m.

"Leah" -OFF wrote in message
...

I tell my students that their dogs want them to be strong leaders, but to
remember that true leadership does NOT involve strong-arm methods.
(During the
NILIF talk.)

Do you recommend NILIF often? I've only recommended it 2 or 3 times and
practiced it about that many but only with dogs with *major* behavioral
issues...like dominance aggression.

This last class, I tested Sassy. No cringe/blink reflex. Not only that,
but
her owners (daughter & mom) were having an easier time focusing her.

She quit cringing in only 2 weeks? That's shocking. The dogs we've had in
rescue who were afraid of being hit from past experience took much longer to
stop reacting...some never have. Now alot of them will cringe/cower the
first week in a new home because its an auto-response related to being
uncertain of the new human.


--
Tara

"Leah" -OFF wrote in message
...

I tell my students that their dogs want them to be strong leaders, but to
remember that true leadership does NOT involve strong-arm methods.
(During the
NILIF talk.)

Do you recommend NILIF often? I've only recommended it 2 or 3 times and
practiced it about that many but only with dogs with *major* behavioral
issues...like dominance aggression.

This last class, I tested Sassy. No cringe/blink reflex. Not only that,
but
her owners (daughter & mom) were having an easier time focusing her.

She quit cringing in only 2 weeks? That's shocking. The dogs we've had in
rescue who were afraid of being hit from past experience took much longer to
stop reacting...some never have. Now alot of them will cringe/cower the
first week in a new home because its an auto-response related to being
uncertain of the new human.


--
Tara

On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:11:24 -0400, "Tara O."
wrote:

"Leah" -OFF wrote in message
...

I tell my students that their dogs want them to be strong leaders, but to
remember that true leadership does NOT involve strong-arm methods.
(During the
NILIF talk.)

Do you recommend NILIF often? I've only recommended it 2 or 3 times and
practiced it about that many but only with dogs with *major* behavioral
issues...like dominance aggression.

This last class, I tested Sassy. No cringe/blink reflex. Not only that,
but
her owners (daughter & mom) were having an easier time focusing her.

She quit cringing in only 2 weeks? That's shocking. The dogs we've had in
rescue who were afraid of being hit from past experience took much longer to
stop reacting...some never have. Now alot of them will cringe/cower the
first week in a new home because its an auto-response related to being
uncertain of the new human.

That's very surprising to me, too. I've got a couple of dogs in my
house that took years to get over headshyness from being hit.
Cringing/cowering isn't always from being hit.

Mustang Sally

On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:11:24 -0400, "Tara O."
wrote:

"Leah" -OFF wrote in message
...

I tell my students that their dogs want them to be strong leaders, but to
remember that true leadership does NOT involve strong-arm methods.
(During the
NILIF talk.)

Do you recommend NILIF often? I've only recommended it 2 or 3 times and
practiced it about that many but only with dogs with *major* behavioral
issues...like dominance aggression.

This last class, I tested Sassy. No cringe/blink reflex. Not only that,
but
her owners (daughter & mom) were having an easier time focusing her.

She quit cringing in only 2 weeks? That's shocking. The dogs we've had in
rescue who were afraid of being hit from past experience took much longer to
stop reacting...some never have. Now alot of them will cringe/cower the
first week in a new home because its an auto-response related to being
uncertain of the new human.

That's very surprising to me, too. I've got a couple of dogs in my
house that took years to get over headshyness from being hit.
Cringing/cowering isn't always from being hit.

Mustang Sally

On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Leah wrote:

This last class, I tested Sassy. No cringe/blink reflex.
Not only that, but her owners (daughter & mom) were having an
easier time focusing her.

it's not a good idea to assume that a dog who flinches was
necessarily hit. elliott cringes and has *never* been hit.
harriet *was* likely hit by her former owners. when she's
startled by sudden movements, she has two responses: flatten
and lose bladder/bowel control or stiffen up and prepare to
defend herself.

--
shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott and harriet
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette

On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Leah wrote:

This last class, I tested Sassy. No cringe/blink reflex.
Not only that, but her owners (daughter & mom) were having an
easier time focusing her.

it's not a good idea to assume that a dog who flinches was
necessarily hit. elliott cringes and has *never* been hit.
harriet *was* likely hit by her former owners. when she's
startled by sudden movements, she has two responses: flatten
and lose bladder/bowel control or stiffen up and prepare to
defend herself.

--
shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott and harriet
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette

Subject: TPW troll posts.
From: "Tara O."
Date: Mon, Sep 8, 2003 12:11 PM
Message-id:

"Leah" -OFF wrote in message
...

I tell my students that their dogs want them to be strong leaders, but
to
remember that true leadership does NOT involve strong-arm methods.
(During the
NILIF talk.)

I have had TOO MANY dogs come to me that had their owners doing the NILIF. : (

They definitely screwed up the Chessies!


Do you recommend NILIF often? I've only recommended it 2 or 3 times and
practiced it about that many but only with dogs with *major* behavioral
issues...like dominance aggression.

I have NEVER suggested it, as I don't think it is needed.

I like *negotiating* with my guys and even the nastiest ones come around with
kindness and patience and consistency and rules.

Of course I have always aid I like to work with BIG BULLY Brown Dogs

They are my favourite. : )

Paulette~

Subject: TPW troll posts.
From: "Tara O."
Date: Mon, Sep 8, 2003 12:11 PM
Message-id:

"Leah" -OFF wrote in message
...

I tell my students that their dogs want them to be strong leaders, but
to
remember that true leadership does NOT involve strong-arm methods.
(During the
NILIF talk.)

I have had TOO MANY dogs come to me that had their owners doing the NILIF. : (

They definitely screwed up the Chessies!


Do you recommend NILIF often? I've only recommended it 2 or 3 times and
practiced it about that many but only with dogs with *major* behavioral
issues...like dominance aggression.

I have NEVER suggested it, as I don't think it is needed.

I like *negotiating* with my guys and even the nastiest ones come around with
kindness and patience and consistency and rules.

Of course I have always aid I like to work with BIG BULLY Brown Dogs

They are my favourite. : )

Paulette~

Subject: TPW troll posts.
From: sighthounds etc.
Date: Mon, Sep 8, 2003 12:13 PM
Message-id:

On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:11:24 -0400, "Tara O."
wrote:

"Leah" -OFF wrote in message
...

I tell my students that their dogs want them to be strong leaders, but
to
remember that true leadership does NOT involve strong-arm methods.
(During the
NILIF talk.)

Do you recommend NILIF often? I've only recommended it 2 or 3 times and
practiced it about that many but only with dogs with *major* behavioral
issues...like dominance aggression.

This last class, I tested Sassy. No cringe/blink reflex. Not only that,
but
her owners (daughter & mom) were having an easier time focusing her.

She quit cringing in only 2 weeks? That's shocking. The dogs we've had
in
rescue who were afraid of being hit from past experience took much longer
to
stop reacting...some never have. Now alot of them will cringe/cower the
first week in a new home because its an auto-response related to being
uncertain of the new human.

That's very surprising to me, too. I've got a couple of dogs in my
house that took years to get over headshyness from being hit.
Cringing/cowering isn't always from being hit.

Mustang Sally


You're right. Lots of people think though if a dog is head shy they were hit.

It can also be because the dog was not socialized, had ear problems,many
reasons.

Paulette~