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Advice/opinions needed



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 6th 03, 12:38 AM
Stace
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Default Advice/opinions needed

I'll try not to omit any important details: (warning, this includes some
icky details)
I have a 2 year old (today, in fact. Some birthday.) female spayed Golden
Retriever.
Yesterday she had diarrhea, along with some vomiting.
This didn't alarm me, as dogs do get bellyaches on occasion.
She had been eating and drinking normally.
To the best of my knowledge, she hasn't gotten into anything that could make
her sick, but I suppose
you never can tell.
Aside from the vomiting which stopped mid-day and the diarrhea which
continued throughout the day, she was perfectly fine
otherwise when we went to sleep last night.
She was running around like a nut and swimming in the lake up until bedtime.
This morning I woke up to poop puddles all over my kitchen, and a paralyzed
dog.
She couldn't walk, stand, or even sit.
The vets ruled out spinal injury, nerve damage and Lyme disease, but her
white cell count is high, which indicates some sort of infection.
Oddly enough, she didn't have a fever, but was very dehydrated due to the
diarrhea.
No surprise there.
They decide to push subq fluids all day, and by 3pm this afternoon, she was
80% better.
I honestly thought I was going to lose this girl.
Even the vet commented that she couldn't possibly be the same dog I brought
in this morning.
Since she was so much better, they recommended that I bring her home rather
than keep her confined to a cage all night.
I can't feed her, but she's allowed to have water, which she's been drinking
in small doses.
They want a stool sample as well (which I find terribly amusing as she let
loose all over the examination room...why didn't they get it *then*????)
I need to bring her back tomorrow morning for more IV fluids, and they want
to start her on meds and a bland diet.
My question is, what could this possibly be?
I'm not sure they'll ever even be able to give me a definitive answer, one
way or the other.
My issue is how can I prevent this from occurring again if I don't know what
caused it to begin with?
I don't know if there are any vets on this list, or if anyone here has
experienced anything similar, but I'm totally in the dark here.

TIA for any and all advice-
Stace




  #2  
Old July 6th 03, 02:25 AM
Rocky
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Default

Stace said in rec.pets.dogs.health:

I'll try not to omit any important details: (warning, this
includes some icky details)


I'm grasping at straws here, but perhaps the immobility,
diarrhea, and vomiting could be unrelated symptoms from a common
source.

Because she had just been swimming, I googled on "cold tail",
something common to retrieving breeds and then added "severe"
because there were too many hits. Read this page:
http://www.thepawsplace.net/page5.html

A better description of cold tail can be found he
http://www.golden-retriever.com/cold_tail.htm

The vomiting, diarrhea, and exhaustion could result from the
ingestion of a lot of (maybe) nasty water and (perhaps) physical
activity that she's not used to.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
  #3  
Old July 6th 03, 10:23 AM
Stace
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Default


"buglady" wrote in message
rthlink.net...
.......Sounds very weird. Dog wasn't anemic? Any mushrooms in your yard?
Pesticides applied to the lawn? Just wondering if it's some kind of
poisoning.

....Hope they find something in the poop, but I can't imagine what......
....Post in alt.med.veterinary if you want vets to answer.

buglady
take out the dog before replying


No to all.
Of course, she hasn't pooped since I brought her home.
*sigh*

Stace


  #4  
Old July 6th 03, 10:29 AM
Stace
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Default


"Rocky" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
I'm grasping at straws here, but perhaps the immobility,
diarrhea, and vomiting could be unrelated symptoms from a common
source.


Trust me, I know what you mean!!!!

Because she had just been swimming, I googled on "cold tail",
something common to retrieving breeds and then added "severe"
because there were too many hits. Read this page:
http://www.thepawsplace.net/page5.html

A better description of cold tail can be found he
http://www.golden-retriever.com/cold_tail.htm


This isn't impossible, however, she could not even *sit*, stand or walk.
Would cold tail be that severe?
It's certainly worth mentioning when I bring her back in this morning.

The vomiting, diarrhea, and exhaustion could result from the
ingestion of a lot of (maybe) nasty water and (perhaps) physical
activity that she's not used to.


I have a gut feeling that it really was something in the water, or something
in there
might have bit her.
Swimming is the only real constant here, although I have to admit it really
could be anything.
Thanks to everyone who answered, I really appreciate you folks taking the
time to answer.

Stace


  #5  
Old July 6th 03, 12:54 PM
Amy Dahl
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Default

Stace wrote:

This isn't impossible, however, she could not even *sit*, stand or walk.
Would cold tail be that severe?
It's certainly worth mentioning when I bring her back in this morning.

Cold tail just affects the tail. It's essentially stiffness of the
muscles that wag the tail.

It kinda sounds as though there was some initial gastrointestinal
upset, which may or may not have had to do with ingestion of
contaminated water. Vomiting and diarrhea led to dehydration
and maybe salt imbalance (loss of electrolytes). I personally
haven't seen paralysis with dehydration, but I have never
heard of a dog's being allowed to play vigorously in such a condition,
either.

The rapid recovery with SQ or IV fluids suggests dehydration might
have been the reason for the symptoms. I had a Golden puppy once that
acted really sick, and had a dramatic recovery after being given
fluids.

I doubt you'll get a stool sample at this point. Probably the loose
diarrhea emptied her out. You might try offering her some boiled
white rice with a little bit of cottage cheese mixed in it. And
keep a close eye on her, of course. Did the vet teach you how to
monitor her for dehydration?

Amy Dahl
  #6  
Old July 6th 03, 05:26 PM
Stace
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Posts: n/a
Default


"buglady" wrote in message
thlink.net...
......You pick up the skin on the back of the neck, then let it go. If it
snaps back into place, dog is well hydrated. If it is slow to lose the

fold
pinched in the skin, dog needs water. I've forgotten the percentage of
dehydration associated with this trick. My vet told me once and I didn't
write it down g But he said there's a better way to catch dehydration

at
an earlier stage. Look at the animal's eyes from the side - if they look
shiney, they're OK. If they look dull and sort of tacky on the surface,
they need water. This happens before the neck skin gets flabby.

......As for the paralysis, I had a dog that suddenly couldn't get up from

a
sitting position - her hind end would just not work. She was eventually
diagnosed with Addison's disease. What happens in Addision's is that the
electrolytes get severely out of balance (largely sodium and potassium)

and
sodium is largely used as part of the chemical electrical current to make
muscles work. All cells in the body are actually bathed in fluid and they
don't touch each other. When they do, they sort of short out. The danger
in this is that the heart muscle might quit working if they end up in
Addisonian crisis. So severe dehydration could have caused your pup's
paralysis. Perhaps this is one of those dogs who needs to be monitored

for
exercise in the heat as they have no off switch!

buglady
take out the dog before replying


Thanks!!!
I can assure you that I do not want this to happen again.
First thing is to keep her out of that damned lake (which is gonna make her
absolutely NUTS)
until I can get a water test done, and even then I'm not sure I'd be
comfortable with it.

Stace



  #7  
Old July 6th 03, 06:04 PM
ZPL
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Default

I have been holding back mentioning this, but I haven't seen anyone bring it
up yet.

Had the same "paralysis" happen in one of our dogs about 10 years ago. He
also had been suffering GI upset after being on penicillin for a sutured
face laceration (one of those backyard accidents). Rushed Sidney the
Doberman to the vet, who poked, prodded and x-rayed.

Was told, don't worry too much about that. He would see the same thing in
horses when they had bowel problems. I guess, almost like a colicking. He
was given some fluids while he was being prodded. By the time we paid and
left (maybe 30-45 minutes) he was pulling me to the car.



"Stace" wrote in message
...
I'll try not to omit any important details: (warning, this includes some
icky details)
I have a 2 year old (today, in fact. Some birthday.) female spayed Golden
Retriever.
Yesterday she had diarrhea, along with some vomiting.
This didn't alarm me, as dogs do get bellyaches on occasion.
She had been eating and drinking normally.
To the best of my knowledge, she hasn't gotten into anything that could

make
her sick, but I suppose
you never can tell.
Aside from the vomiting which stopped mid-day and the diarrhea which
continued throughout the day, she was perfectly fine
otherwise when we went to sleep last night.
She was running around like a nut and swimming in the lake up until

bedtime.
This morning I woke up to poop puddles all over my kitchen, and a

paralyzed
dog.
She couldn't walk, stand, or even sit.
The vets ruled out spinal injury, nerve damage and Lyme disease, but her
white cell count is high, which indicates some sort of infection.
Oddly enough, she didn't have a fever, but was very dehydrated due to the
diarrhea.
No surprise there.
They decide to push subq fluids all day, and by 3pm this afternoon, she

was
80% better.
I honestly thought I was going to lose this girl.
Even the vet commented that she couldn't possibly be the same dog I

brought
in this morning.
Since she was so much better, they recommended that I bring her home

rather
than keep her confined to a cage all night.
I can't feed her, but she's allowed to have water, which she's been

drinking
in small doses.
They want a stool sample as well (which I find terribly amusing as she let
loose all over the examination room...why didn't they get it *then*????)
I need to bring her back tomorrow morning for more IV fluids, and they

want
to start her on meds and a bland diet.
My question is, what could this possibly be?
I'm not sure they'll ever even be able to give me a definitive answer, one
way or the other.
My issue is how can I prevent this from occurring again if I don't know

what
caused it to begin with?
I don't know if there are any vets on this list, or if anyone here has
experienced anything similar, but I'm totally in the dark here.

TIA for any and all advice-
Stace






  #8  
Old July 6th 03, 09:36 PM
Amy Dahl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

buglady wrote:

No, but I'll mention this when I pick her up today.


......You pick up the skin on the back of the neck, then let it go. If it
snaps back into place, dog is well hydrated. If it is slow to lose the fold
pinched in the skin, dog needs water. I've forgotten the percentage of
dehydration associated with this trick. My vet told me once and I didn't
write it down g But he said there's a better way to catch dehydration at
an earlier stage. Look at the animal's eyes from the side - if they look
shiney, they're OK. If they look dull and sort of tacky on the surface,
they need water. This happens before the neck skin gets flabby.

I'm not familiar with the eye technique. My vet suggested monitoring
the wetness inside the mouth--touch the gums and see if they are wet,
or tacky. I've found I have to be familiar with the individual dog
as some have wetter mouths than others. This one shows up before the
skin loses its elasticity, too--and works on older dogs, whose skin
isn't as supple.

But it's still a good idea to see what *your* vet suggests.

Amy Dahl
  #9  
Old July 6th 03, 09:46 PM
Amy Dahl
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Posts: n/a
Default



Stace wrote:

but I have never
heard of a dog's being allowed to play vigorously in such a condition,
either.


????

Sorry, misread the original. The vigorous activity was the
day before the symptoms showed up.

I've seen it suggested to keep a dog on a bland diet (rice and
chicken or rice and cottage cheese) for a week after a severe
GI upset, whether symptoms clear up sooner or not. Then gradually
transition back to the regular food.

This is from Strombeck, small animal gastroenterologist. The
reason, IIRC, is that the GI tract is more "leaky" than usual
after an insult, so more intact proteins than usual can get
into the bloodstream and stimulate the immune system--potentially
leading to allergies.

Amy Dahl
  #10  
Old July 6th 03, 10:01 PM
Stace
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Amy Dahl" wrote in message
...
Sorry, misread the original. The vigorous activity was the
day before the symptoms showed up.


S'okay, just wanted to make sure *I* wasn't misinterpreting anything.

I've seen it suggested to keep a dog on a bland diet (rice and
chicken or rice and cottage cheese) for a week after a severe
GI upset, whether symptoms clear up sooner or not. Then gradually
transition back to the regular food.


This is exactly what they suggested, so there's a big ol' batch of chicken
and
rice in the refrigerator. blech
Don't know yet if she'll eat it, but we'll find out in about an hour.

This is from Strombeck, small animal gastroenterologist. The
reason, IIRC, is that the GI tract is more "leaky" than usual
after an insult, so more intact proteins than usual can get
into the bloodstream and stimulate the immune system--potentially
leading to allergies.

Amy Dahl


I would think that it just plain easier on their tummies, too...I know after
I've been sick, the last thing
I want is normal food.
She appears to be back to her usual self this afternoon, which thrills me to
death.
Bright shiny eyes, nice tight skin, and best of all, a continuously wagging
tail.
I picked her up about an hour ago, along with some meds and a diagnosis that
it's an infection, the etiology
of which is unknown.
Every test they did came back negative, with the exception of a high white
cell count.
It's frustrating, but at least she's okay.
Thank you all for your advice.
Reading helped me feel better about all this.

Stace



 




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