I'm probably going to get a barrage of abuse or flame grilled but I believe
in the freedom of speech, so I'm gonna say it any way.......

I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit and does serve
a purpose? I've had dogs for as long as I can remember and maybe I have
been lucky but my pups have always been allowed the freedom to roam - albeit
a couple of rooms at a time but I found toilet-training/chewing no real
problem as long as you put the time and patience into teaching it where to
go. Yes I've had the few accidents but it's probably no worse than your
average 2/3 year old child drawing all over your walls with crayon, and you
certainly wouldn't crate a child (well, I dunno with some people).

Some people crate their pups if they have to work and they don't want it
chewing, I understand that but if the pup is kept stimulated with toys, good
chews and prized furniture out of reach then surely it's nicer for the pup
than being locked in a box? And if you have to work all day and leave the
pup then perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place?

Just my views ducking for cover

Tracie

I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit and does
serve
a purpose?

Yes, it does. Your dog is acclimated to being left in a cage. Thus, trips
to the vet for surgery are less stressful. Being boarded is less stressful.
Being shipped (i.e. you move across the country) is less stressful. Being
shown is less stressful.

Some people crate their pups if they have to work and they don't want it
chewing, I understand that but if the pup is kept stimulated with toys,
good
chews and prized furniture out of reach then surely it's nicer for the pup
than being locked in a box?

I suppose, if you don't mind the risk of your pup electrocuting itself,
choking to death on your carpet, or getting a blockage from eating something
you didn't think would fit down it's throat.

And if you have to work all day and leave the
pup then perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place?

I work 8 hour shifts, which leaves me gone 10 hours a day (45 minute trip
there & back). Do I feel guilty for leaving my 4 month old alone in his
crate for that length of time? No. He can hold it. He's shown us he can.
I'll cut a few hours out of my sleep to make sure he's played with just as
much as if I'd been home all day. He gets lots of playtime, and it's no
different from leaving him crated at night. If I have to leave him alone
that long for more than one day in a row, I take him to the park and let him
run around for a hour or two, or I take him to his breeder's while I'm at
work (where he stays in a run with her 3 month old puppy--they wear
eachother out completely.)

Are there better options? Yes. Is this the right home for him? Yes, I
think so. He's everything I've been waiting for. He gets lots of mental
stimulation and is pretty much a very well-behaved puppy (and even dislikes
the BF's ex! What more could I ask for?), and I don't feel it's wrong to
ask him to sleep in a crate instead of on the floor, bed, or spend the day
harassing the cat.
~Emily


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 10/27/2003

I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit and does
serve
a purpose?

Yes, it does. Your dog is acclimated to being left in a cage. Thus, trips
to the vet for surgery are less stressful. Being boarded is less stressful.
Being shipped (i.e. you move across the country) is less stressful. Being
shown is less stressful.

Some people crate their pups if they have to work and they don't want it
chewing, I understand that but if the pup is kept stimulated with toys,
good
chews and prized furniture out of reach then surely it's nicer for the pup
than being locked in a box?

I suppose, if you don't mind the risk of your pup electrocuting itself,
choking to death on your carpet, or getting a blockage from eating something
you didn't think would fit down it's throat.

And if you have to work all day and leave the
pup then perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place?

I work 8 hour shifts, which leaves me gone 10 hours a day (45 minute trip
there & back). Do I feel guilty for leaving my 4 month old alone in his
crate for that length of time? No. He can hold it. He's shown us he can.
I'll cut a few hours out of my sleep to make sure he's played with just as
much as if I'd been home all day. He gets lots of playtime, and it's no
different from leaving him crated at night. If I have to leave him alone
that long for more than one day in a row, I take him to the park and let him
run around for a hour or two, or I take him to his breeder's while I'm at
work (where he stays in a run with her 3 month old puppy--they wear
eachother out completely.)

Are there better options? Yes. Is this the right home for him? Yes, I
think so. He's everything I've been waiting for. He gets lots of mental
stimulation and is pretty much a very well-behaved puppy (and even dislikes
the BF's ex! What more could I ask for?), and I don't feel it's wrong to
ask him to sleep in a crate instead of on the floor, bed, or spend the day
harassing the cat.
~Emily


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 10/27/2003

I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit and does
serve
a purpose?

Yes, it does. Your dog is acclimated to being left in a cage. Thus, trips
to the vet for surgery are less stressful. Being boarded is less stressful.
Being shipped (i.e. you move across the country) is less stressful. Being
shown is less stressful.

Some people crate their pups if they have to work and they don't want it
chewing, I understand that but if the pup is kept stimulated with toys,
good
chews and prized furniture out of reach then surely it's nicer for the pup
than being locked in a box?

I suppose, if you don't mind the risk of your pup electrocuting itself,
choking to death on your carpet, or getting a blockage from eating something
you didn't think would fit down it's throat.

And if you have to work all day and leave the
pup then perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place?

I work 8 hour shifts, which leaves me gone 10 hours a day (45 minute trip
there & back). Do I feel guilty for leaving my 4 month old alone in his
crate for that length of time? No. He can hold it. He's shown us he can.
I'll cut a few hours out of my sleep to make sure he's played with just as
much as if I'd been home all day. He gets lots of playtime, and it's no
different from leaving him crated at night. If I have to leave him alone
that long for more than one day in a row, I take him to the park and let him
run around for a hour or two, or I take him to his breeder's while I'm at
work (where he stays in a run with her 3 month old puppy--they wear
eachother out completely.)

Are there better options? Yes. Is this the right home for him? Yes, I
think so. He's everything I've been waiting for. He gets lots of mental
stimulation and is pretty much a very well-behaved puppy (and even dislikes
the BF's ex! What more could I ask for?), and I don't feel it's wrong to
ask him to sleep in a crate instead of on the floor, bed, or spend the day
harassing the cat.
~Emily


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 10/27/2003

I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit and does
serve
a purpose?

Yes, it does. Your dog is acclimated to being left in a cage. Thus, trips
to the vet for surgery are less stressful. Being boarded is less stressful.
Being shipped (i.e. you move across the country) is less stressful. Being
shown is less stressful.

Some people crate their pups if they have to work and they don't want it
chewing, I understand that but if the pup is kept stimulated with toys,
good
chews and prized furniture out of reach then surely it's nicer for the pup
than being locked in a box?

I suppose, if you don't mind the risk of your pup electrocuting itself,
choking to death on your carpet, or getting a blockage from eating something
you didn't think would fit down it's throat.

And if you have to work all day and leave the
pup then perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place?

I work 8 hour shifts, which leaves me gone 10 hours a day (45 minute trip
there & back). Do I feel guilty for leaving my 4 month old alone in his
crate for that length of time? No. He can hold it. He's shown us he can.
I'll cut a few hours out of my sleep to make sure he's played with just as
much as if I'd been home all day. He gets lots of playtime, and it's no
different from leaving him crated at night. If I have to leave him alone
that long for more than one day in a row, I take him to the park and let him
run around for a hour or two, or I take him to his breeder's while I'm at
work (where he stays in a run with her 3 month old puppy--they wear
eachother out completely.)

Are there better options? Yes. Is this the right home for him? Yes, I
think so. He's everything I've been waiting for. He gets lots of mental
stimulation and is pretty much a very well-behaved puppy (and even dislikes
the BF's ex! What more could I ask for?), and I don't feel it's wrong to
ask him to sleep in a crate instead of on the floor, bed, or spend the day
harassing the cat.
~Emily


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 10/27/2003

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Tracie wrote:

I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit
and does serve a purpose? I've had dogs for as long as I can
remember and maybe I have been lucky but my pups have always
been allowed the freedom to roam

i've also had dogs all my life. i never used or owned a crate
until a few years ago. the last puppy i had was, honestly,
the perfect dog. he had free roam of the house. he was never
crated and, even when he was a 10 week old baby, he never
chewed on things that weren't his and never, ever had
accidents. i thought crating was cruel and couldn't
understand why people who professed to love their dogs would
lock them in a box. then i had an epiphany in the form of a
7mo Boxer bitch.

you certainly wouldn't crate a child (well, I dunno with some
people).

not that dogs are children, but i certainly *would* restrain a
child if i couldn't directly supervise it. there's no way in
hell i'd let a small child have free run of the house with no
supervision!

Some people crate their pups if they have to work and they
don't want it chewing, I understand that but if the pup is
kept stimulated with toys, good chews and prized furniture
out of reach then surely it's nicer for the pup than being
locked in a box?

define "nicer," please. if a puppy is left with free reign of
the home, what happens when it gets bored with its chew toys?
it may well start chewing on things that are dangerous, or it
may get into something deadly. that doesn't sound very "nice"
to me.

And if you have to work all day and leave the pup then
perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place?

no, maybe you shouldn't. for someone in that position i would
recommend getting an older pup or a grown dog. that doesn't
always work out the way you plan, though.

and, what about dogs who have separation anxiety? what about
dog-aggressive dogs in multiple dog households? when i added
a second dog to my home, i purposely looked for an older pup,
hoping to forgo some of the usual puppy problems
(housebreaking, chewing, etc.). i ended up with a 7mo Boxer
who, come to find out, was *not* housebroken, had substantial
separation anxiety, and, when she matured, developed some
worrisome dog-aggressive tendencies. for her safety and the
safety of my older dog, she was crated until i was able to
work with her SA and aggression to the point where she could
be safely left uncrated. in her case, a crate may well have
saved her life. i don't talk to too many people who are dying
to take on an adolescent Boxer with SA and dog-aggression.

--
shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott and harriet
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Tracie wrote:

I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit
and does serve a purpose? I've had dogs for as long as I can
remember and maybe I have been lucky but my pups have always
been allowed the freedom to roam

i've also had dogs all my life. i never used or owned a crate
until a few years ago. the last puppy i had was, honestly,
the perfect dog. he had free roam of the house. he was never
crated and, even when he was a 10 week old baby, he never
chewed on things that weren't his and never, ever had
accidents. i thought crating was cruel and couldn't
understand why people who professed to love their dogs would
lock them in a box. then i had an epiphany in the form of a
7mo Boxer bitch.

you certainly wouldn't crate a child (well, I dunno with some
people).

not that dogs are children, but i certainly *would* restrain a
child if i couldn't directly supervise it. there's no way in
hell i'd let a small child have free run of the house with no
supervision!

Some people crate their pups if they have to work and they
don't want it chewing, I understand that but if the pup is
kept stimulated with toys, good chews and prized furniture
out of reach then surely it's nicer for the pup than being
locked in a box?

define "nicer," please. if a puppy is left with free reign of
the home, what happens when it gets bored with its chew toys?
it may well start chewing on things that are dangerous, or it
may get into something deadly. that doesn't sound very "nice"
to me.

And if you have to work all day and leave the pup then
perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place?

no, maybe you shouldn't. for someone in that position i would
recommend getting an older pup or a grown dog. that doesn't
always work out the way you plan, though.

and, what about dogs who have separation anxiety? what about
dog-aggressive dogs in multiple dog households? when i added
a second dog to my home, i purposely looked for an older pup,
hoping to forgo some of the usual puppy problems
(housebreaking, chewing, etc.). i ended up with a 7mo Boxer
who, come to find out, was *not* housebroken, had substantial
separation anxiety, and, when she matured, developed some
worrisome dog-aggressive tendencies. for her safety and the
safety of my older dog, she was crated until i was able to
work with her SA and aggression to the point where she could
be safely left uncrated. in her case, a crate may well have
saved her life. i don't talk to too many people who are dying
to take on an adolescent Boxer with SA and dog-aggression.

--
shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott and harriet
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Tracie wrote:

I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit
and does serve a purpose? I've had dogs for as long as I can
remember and maybe I have been lucky but my pups have always
been allowed the freedom to roam

i've also had dogs all my life. i never used or owned a crate
until a few years ago. the last puppy i had was, honestly,
the perfect dog. he had free roam of the house. he was never
crated and, even when he was a 10 week old baby, he never
chewed on things that weren't his and never, ever had
accidents. i thought crating was cruel and couldn't
understand why people who professed to love their dogs would
lock them in a box. then i had an epiphany in the form of a
7mo Boxer bitch.

you certainly wouldn't crate a child (well, I dunno with some
people).

not that dogs are children, but i certainly *would* restrain a
child if i couldn't directly supervise it. there's no way in
hell i'd let a small child have free run of the house with no
supervision!

Some people crate their pups if they have to work and they
don't want it chewing, I understand that but if the pup is
kept stimulated with toys, good chews and prized furniture
out of reach then surely it's nicer for the pup than being
locked in a box?

define "nicer," please. if a puppy is left with free reign of
the home, what happens when it gets bored with its chew toys?
it may well start chewing on things that are dangerous, or it
may get into something deadly. that doesn't sound very "nice"
to me.

And if you have to work all day and leave the pup then
perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place?

no, maybe you shouldn't. for someone in that position i would
recommend getting an older pup or a grown dog. that doesn't
always work out the way you plan, though.

and, what about dogs who have separation anxiety? what about
dog-aggressive dogs in multiple dog households? when i added
a second dog to my home, i purposely looked for an older pup,
hoping to forgo some of the usual puppy problems
(housebreaking, chewing, etc.). i ended up with a 7mo Boxer
who, come to find out, was *not* housebroken, had substantial
separation anxiety, and, when she matured, developed some
worrisome dog-aggressive tendencies. for her safety and the
safety of my older dog, she was crated until i was able to
work with her SA and aggression to the point where she could
be safely left uncrated. in her case, a crate may well have
saved her life. i don't talk to too many people who are dying
to take on an adolescent Boxer with SA and dog-aggression.

--
shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott and harriet
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette

There's crating and then there's crating. I'm convinced that most of
the argument about crating is an argument about what is meant by it.
Are we talking about putting the pup in a safe place where he can sleep
for a few hours when unattended? Or are we talking about leaving a dog
bored and miserable for hours on end while being ignored?

I've never crated my dogs. For my first puppy, Genny, I didn't crate
her because I didn't know what I was doing. I'd gotten a crate based on
the advice of a friend, didn't understand how to use for housetraining,
tried it twice when I was leaving the house, realized my pup was
miserable, didn't know what to do next and discontinued the experiment.
You can't really call that crating since I was doing everything wrong.
My next 2 dogs came to me housetrained as adults. I have a crate for
Cubbe, but mostly we use it in the car. She doesn't care for it at home
(preferring a much smaller space under the bed), and I can't see what
advantage it would be so I don't press the point.

There are other ways to train without crating. Crating is a good way to
train if it suits you and your dog.

As for the dog/toddler comparison, no you wouldn't crate your child for
drawing on the walls. You'd keep crayons away from the kid when not
supervised. You might put your toddler in a playpen or crib if you
needed to use the bathroom or get 5 minutes to yourself and were worried
about what an active toddler can get into in that time. You might also
put your toddler in a playpen where he can see you cooking if you were
worried about spilling boiling water if the child chooses the wrong
moment to pull on your leg. Think of crating a puppy in those terms-- a
good place to keep a dog safe and happy for a short while.

I'm not sure having the run of the house really is better than a crate
for some dogs. A whole house is a huge responsibility for a protective,
territorial dog. Your dog might feel happier and more secure in a
smaller space. My dog does have the run of the house when I'm gone, but
my dog has never been a destructive neurotic chewer or barker either.
All evidence points to her sleeping on the couch while we're gone. If
we did have a problem, we'd consider crating.

--Lia


Tracie wrote:
I'm probably going to get a barrage of abuse or flame grilled but I believe
in the freedom of speech, so I'm gonna say it any way.......

I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit and does serve
a purpose? I've had dogs for as long as I can remember and maybe I have
been lucky but my pups have always been allowed the freedom to roam - albeit
a couple of rooms at a time but I found toilet-training/chewing no real
problem as long as you put the time and patience into teaching it where to
go. Yes I've had the few accidents but it's probably no worse than your
average 2/3 year old child drawing all over your walls with crayon, and you
certainly wouldn't crate a child (well, I dunno with some people).

Some people crate their pups if they have to work and they don't want it
chewing, I understand that but if the pup is kept stimulated with toys, good
chews and prized furniture out of reach then surely it's nicer for the pup
than being locked in a box? And if you have to work all day and leave the
pup then perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place?

Just my views ducking for cover

Tracie

There's crating and then there's crating. I'm convinced that most of
the argument about crating is an argument about what is meant by it.
Are we talking about putting the pup in a safe place where he can sleep
for a few hours when unattended? Or are we talking about leaving a dog
bored and miserable for hours on end while being ignored?

I've never crated my dogs. For my first puppy, Genny, I didn't crate
her because I didn't know what I was doing. I'd gotten a crate based on
the advice of a friend, didn't understand how to use for housetraining,
tried it twice when I was leaving the house, realized my pup was
miserable, didn't know what to do next and discontinued the experiment.
You can't really call that crating since I was doing everything wrong.
My next 2 dogs came to me housetrained as adults. I have a crate for
Cubbe, but mostly we use it in the car. She doesn't care for it at home
(preferring a much smaller space under the bed), and I can't see what
advantage it would be so I don't press the point.

There are other ways to train without crating. Crating is a good way to
train if it suits you and your dog.

As for the dog/toddler comparison, no you wouldn't crate your child for
drawing on the walls. You'd keep crayons away from the kid when not
supervised. You might put your toddler in a playpen or crib if you
needed to use the bathroom or get 5 minutes to yourself and were worried
about what an active toddler can get into in that time. You might also
put your toddler in a playpen where he can see you cooking if you were
worried about spilling boiling water if the child chooses the wrong
moment to pull on your leg. Think of crating a puppy in those terms-- a
good place to keep a dog safe and happy for a short while.

I'm not sure having the run of the house really is better than a crate
for some dogs. A whole house is a huge responsibility for a protective,
territorial dog. Your dog might feel happier and more secure in a
smaller space. My dog does have the run of the house when I'm gone, but
my dog has never been a destructive neurotic chewer or barker either.
All evidence points to her sleeping on the couch while we're gone. If
we did have a problem, we'd consider crating.

--Lia


Tracie wrote:
I'm probably going to get a barrage of abuse or flame grilled but I believe
in the freedom of speech, so I'm gonna say it any way.......

I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit and does serve
a purpose? I've had dogs for as long as I can remember and maybe I have
been lucky but my pups have always been allowed the freedom to roam - albeit
a couple of rooms at a time but I found toilet-training/chewing no real
problem as long as you put the time and patience into teaching it where to
go. Yes I've had the few accidents but it's probably no worse than your
average 2/3 year old child drawing all over your walls with crayon, and you
certainly wouldn't crate a child (well, I dunno with some people).

Some people crate their pups if they have to work and they don't want it
chewing, I understand that but if the pup is kept stimulated with toys, good
chews and prized furniture out of reach then surely it's nicer for the pup
than being locked in a box? And if you have to work all day and leave the
pup then perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place?

Just my views ducking for cover

Tracie