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Problem in Bullmastiff ancestory?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 28th 04, 10:02 PM
fabbl
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Default Problem in Bullmastiff ancestory?

Hi,
I am currently evaluating bullmastiff breeders and happened to look at
the lineage tree of our last dog, Max, a bullmastiff who died this month of
AIHA. Max's fathers, father (Paternal grandfather) and mothers, fathers,
father (maternal great grandfather) were the same dog. Does anyone know if
this can cause genetic problems? Better yet does anyone know how to evaluate
a dogs family tree to better help judge if the dog is going have problems or
not? Any help appreciated.


  #2  
Old March 29th 04, 09:04 AM
Natalie Rigertas
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fabbl wrote:
Hi,
I am currently evaluating bullmastiff breeders and happened to look at
the lineage tree of our last dog, Max, a bullmastiff who died this month of
AIHA. Max's fathers, father (Paternal grandfather) and mothers, fathers,
father (maternal great grandfather) were the same dog. Does anyone know if
this can cause genetic problems? Better yet does anyone know how to evaluate
a dogs family tree to better help judge if the dog is going have problems or
not? Any help appreciated.


It can or can't cause genetic problems. If the genetic "bad trait" is
there, it can be passed down the line. If one carrier is bred to another
carrier, then you're likely to get a dog with the disease. So that if his
dam's grandsire got the ability to pass on the genetic disease from the
same dog that was Max's sire's sire, there's a chance that Max's sire could
have the ability to pass on the trait. Then again, if this dog was free
(not a carrier, not afflicted) of the trait, it would be fine. It's really
no different than if the dam's grandsire and the sire's sire were different
dogs, but both were carriers or afflicted and could pass the trait down.

The line breeding tends to "cement" a trait into the breeding line, and it
can be either something good for the line, or bad for it. So again, if the
shared ancestor was a carrier/afflicted, it could have passed that down the
line. If the ancestor was NOT shared, but both the sires in question were
carriers/afflicted, it could also get down the line.


natalie
--

The turtle lives twixt plated decks
Which practically conceal its sex.
I think it clever of the turtle
In such a fix to be so fertile.
---Ogden Nash

  #3  
Old March 29th 04, 09:10 AM
Jo Wolf
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This type of line breeding is only a problem if the defect that causes
the disorder is present in the line.... You'd have to know about the
dogs in the direct pedigree, and also siblings of those dogs... and
remember it could have come in via two unrelated dogs.... Until there
are tests to identify carriers, the only method of spotting them is when
they throw pups with the problem...

One of my guys has the same male as both grandfather and
greatgrandfather... but none of our known health problems have shown up
in that line of decent to date... even via unrelated dogs. Whew!

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia

  #4  
Old March 30th 04, 12:57 AM
fabbl
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Max was a big dog and above standard - we got him down to 152 pounds. He
always had redness, ear infections and an alergic reaction to bacteria on
his skin. When the AIHA was diagnosed, all the redness magically went away.
I suspected that the dog had immune system problems from the beginning. Max
turned 6 years old last November.

The breeder we got the dog from was sympathetic but told us that she never
heard of AIHA before in her dogs. Should she have? I can't believe we got
the one-in-a-million for some reason. Thanks for your input, I'm working in
a vaccum here.



"fabbl" wrote in message
. com...
Hi,
I am currently evaluating bullmastiff breeders and happened to look at
the lineage tree of our last dog, Max, a bullmastiff who died this month

of
AIHA. Max's fathers, father (Paternal grandfather) and mothers, fathers,
father (maternal great grandfather) were the same dog. Does anyone know if
this can cause genetic problems? Better yet does anyone know how to

evaluate
a dogs family tree to better help judge if the dog is going have problems

or
not? Any help appreciated.




  #5  
Old March 30th 04, 05:14 AM
external usenet poster
 
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Default

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 21:02:33 GMT fabbl whittled these words:
Hi,
I am currently evaluating bullmastiff breeders and happened to look at
the lineage tree of our last dog, Max, a bullmastiff who died this month of
AIHA. Max's fathers, father (Paternal grandfather) and mothers, fathers,
father (maternal great grandfather) were the same dog. Does anyone know if
this can cause genetic problems?


That is really not a very close breeding, not something to be concerned
about when reading the pedigree. Some level of breeding between relatives
is necessary for the creation and continuance of predicatble qualities in
breeds. Otherwise its just a mystery with every breeding, which is not
good for the welfare of dogs.


Better yet does anyone know how to evaluate
a dogs family tree to better help judge if the dog is going have problems or
not? Any help appreciated.


The more you know about the dogs in the pedigree the better you can asses
the risks. The book "Control of Canine Genetic Disease" is well written
and clear. It isn't light reading but it won't be a struggle either. It
is really the best resource I can think of for explaining the inheritence
of genetic problems, and how to evaluate a pedigree. The ability to
evaluate the pedigree depends a lot on how involved the breeder is in
being candid about the bad as well as the good. The book will explain
more about heath registries, open and closed, and how they can help in
researching a pedigree.



--
Diane Blackman
http://dog-play.com/
http://dog-play.com/shop2.html


  #6  
Old March 30th 04, 05:28 AM
external usenet poster
 
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On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:57:57 GMT fabbl whittled these words:
Max was a big dog and above standard - we got him down to 152 pounds. He
always had redness, ear infections and an alergic reaction to bacteria on
his skin. When the AIHA was diagnosed, all the redness magically went away.
I suspected that the dog had immune system problems from the beginning. Max
turned 6 years old last November.


The breeder we got the dog from was sympathetic but told us that she never
heard of AIHA before in her dogs. Should she have? I can't believe we got
the one-in-a-million for some reason. Thanks for your input, I'm working in
a vaccum here.


I think its possible. Out of 750 dogs submitted to the Health Survey only
one had an autoimmune problem.
http://mastiff.org/exhibit-hall/health/mhstats.mv
It isn't a problem so strongly associated with the breed that I would see
red flags as regards to this breeder. My evaluation of the breeder
would be mostly influenced by what she does with the information. For
example, would she repeat the breeding? And if asked by someone in
regards to a future puppy would she admit to now having seen the problem?
And is she willing to contribute the information on her own dogs as well
as yours to the health survey. Because collecting informtion is the first
step to solving the problems. As living beings our dogs can have serious
genetic problems even with the most careful of breedings. All you can
really ask of a breeder is that they make a serious effort to investigate
the health of the dogs in the pedigree, that they contribute to open
health registries, that they share information (good and bad) on their
breedings, and that they follow up on puppies to find out any issues. A
good breeder does not rely on waiting for puppy owners to call and
complain.


--
Diane Blackman
http://dog-play.com/
http://dog-play.com/shop2.html


 




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